# Please stop the nonsense about inflation **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [September 14, 2019, 7:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-stop-the-nonsense-about-inflation/189917 "2019-09-14T19:54:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Aedaxus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aedaxus/32/393915_2.png) [@Aedaxus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aedaxus)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 10:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-stop-the-nonsense-about-inflation/189917/90 "2019-09-17T10:10:25Z")
Now I’m confused about who’s right. I do know for a fact that the topic is inflating the reply count! ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 10:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-stop-the-nonsense-about-inflation/189917/91 "2019-09-17T10:31:18Z")
> [@Yarda\_Black](#): > > If it is good for the economy in the general sense It’s not in Eve. For the reason you gave (money is created by an activity which a constant supply of isk). ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 11:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-stop-the-nonsense-about-inflation/189917/92 "2019-09-17T11:13:52Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > Of course there is a “cost of living” replacing ships, modules and ammo, crystals, etc. You are talking nonsense. Not exactly the same as food, energy and housing though. Players can modify their behaviour to make ships, mods and ammo cost them almost nothing. Even new players can easily sustain themselves with ammo and mods. And T1 ships are easy enough to build. All the materials are available in hi-sec now. And that’s kinda what i hoped for. When null blocs threatened a T2 strike i was looking forward to a big shift to T1. ---
**Author:** ![Agondray](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/agondray/32/414989_2.png) [@Agondray](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Agondray)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 11:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-stop-the-nonsense-about-inflation/189917/93 "2019-09-17T11:32:35Z")
in the real world, governments also destroy money on a daily basis while hey continually produce in order to maintain a certain about in flow. i dont know what that ratio is money made vs money destroyed is though. ---
**Author:** ![Andski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/andski/32/147029_2.png) [@Andski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Andski)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 3:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-stop-the-nonsense-about-inflation/189917/94 "2019-09-17T15:54:06Z")
Government treasuries and central banks destroy money to remove damaged or outdated (read: more easily counterfeited) notes from circulation. It’s not necessarily a function of monetary policy. ---
**Author:** ![Andski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/andski/32/147029_2.png) [@Andski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Andski)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 3:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-stop-the-nonsense-about-inflation/189917/95 "2019-09-17T15:57:13Z")
> [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](#): > > So, how does one go about acquiring more and more money in such a scenario? In such a scenario, the money supply is contracting, and you have an increasing amount of money out of circulation (being locked away) and less credit being extended. Central banks target low inflation rates for a reason; deflation can spiral out of control and an extremely low inflation target (i.e. less than 2%) can easily be undershot into deflation. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 4:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-stop-the-nonsense-about-inflation/189917/96 "2019-09-17T16:13:52Z")
Heh. Chaos? If they wanted Chaos theyd crash the entire market and make t1 ammo cost 15m a shot. ---
**Author:** ![Ms\_Steak](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ms_steak/32/168834_2.png) [@Ms\_Steak](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ms_Steak)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 4:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-stop-the-nonsense-about-inflation/189917/97 "2019-09-17T16:45:21Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > If they wanted Chaos theyd crash the entire market and make t1 ammo cost 15m a shot. Eve would have become a game of t1 lasers and drones… ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 4:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-stop-the-nonsense-about-inflation/189917/98 "2019-09-17T16:52:54Z")
A madmax wastleland where the toughest or smartest survive Cos those drones need replaced too. 80m a piece lights ---
**Author:** ![Ms\_Steak](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ms_steak/32/168834_2.png) [@Ms\_Steak](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ms_Steak)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 5:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-stop-the-nonsense-about-inflation/189917/99 "2019-09-17T17:12:02Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > A madmax wastleland where the toughest or smartest survive Maybe Abaddon will become relevant again in such a crazy world… ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 5:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-stop-the-nonsense-about-inflation/189917/100 "2019-09-17T17:12:47Z")
But it has Mymetic drone skin set to on ---
**Author:** ![Mayhaw\_Morgan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mayhaw_morgan/32/412682_2.png) [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mayhaw_Morgan)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 6:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-stop-the-nonsense-about-inflation/189917/101 "2019-09-17T18:15:26Z")
> [@Andski](#): > > the money supply is contracting, and you have an increasing amount of money out of circulation (being locked away) and less credit being extended. Deflation. > [@Andski](#): > > Central banks target low inflation rates for a reason To protect debtors so that debtors don’t get wiped out or learn to protect themselves (by behaving rationally). > [@Andski](#): > > deflation can spiral out of control and an extremely low inflation target (i.e. less than 2%) can easily be undershot into deflation. What you are talking about is the manipulation of the currency by the sovereign. Forcing any particular value onto the currency is manipulation, by default. What’s more, you are not giving a good reason that this should be done, or rather, you are not stating the very good reason that central banks do it: to allow the sovereign to run budget deficits. But there is no deficit spending in EVE, so why should the central bank (CCP) force the currency (ISK) to inflate? All this and you didn’t answer the question you quoted. I’ll answer it for you: in a deflationary scenario, you acquire (hoard) money by producing goods and services at an accelerated rate and exchanging them for money or using them as a secondary currency to conserve what money you have. Production does not go down. It goes up. ---
**Author:** ![Andski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/andski/32/147029_2.png) [@Andski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Andski)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2019, 6:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-stop-the-nonsense-about-inflation/189917/102 "2019-09-17T18:40:13Z")
> [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](#): > > To protect debtors so that debtors don’t get wiped out or learn to protect themselves (by behaving rationally). Inflation in countries where the central bank uses inflation targeting is rather predictable, it does not deviate wildly from the inflation target. Creditors factor it into their interest rates as a result. > [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](#): > > What you are talking about is the manipulation of the currency by the sovereign. Forcing any particular value onto the currency is manipulation, by default. > > What’s more, you are not giving a good reason that this should be done, or rather, you are not stating the very good reason that central banks do it: to allow the sovereign to run budget deficits. Monetary policy is separate from fiscal policy virtually everywhere these days. Central banks use inflation targeting to allow plenty of room for economic growth while maintaining price stability. Governments can run budget deficits regardless of the central bank’s monetary policy as long as their bonds are considered low-risk by investors. > [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](#): > > All this and you didn’t answer the question you quoted. I’ll answer it for you: in a deflationary scenario, you acquire (hoard) money by producing goods and services at an accelerated rate and exchanging them for money or using them as a secondary currency to conserve what money you have. What’s the rate of return here? When literally holding money in a safe has a positive rate of return, there isn’t a lot to invest in producing, risking holding excess inventory that costs money to keep. ---
**Author:** ![Andre\_Matar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/andre_matar/32/296078_2.png) [@Andre\_Matar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Andre_Matar)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 11:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-stop-the-nonsense-about-inflation/189917/103 "2019-09-18T11:03:28Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > nobody cares about deflation in this game. I think I would be interested if I had over half a trillion ISK. A 1% increase in my purchasing power would yield a substantial amount of plex. It would be like having interest on your accumulated wealth. But alas… ---
**Author:** ![Andre\_Matar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/andre_matar/32/296078_2.png) [@Andre\_Matar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Andre_Matar)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 11:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-stop-the-nonsense-about-inflation/189917/104 "2019-09-18T11:08:14Z")
> [@Punctator](#): > > nah you make error as hell - this is not real world. People dont sell time here - people rat because they like ratting and gladly will rat if they dont neet to rival with bots and other inventions like blackouts ect. Sure people who only play exel will lose a lot of isk, but who cares? game ultimately are for gamers not for economists powered by bots. This is actually a good point relating to behavioral economics - i.e. we cannot assume people will act rationally (hoard isk any more than they already do) even if there is significant deflation. The ISK-rich would probably be more inclined to keep their ISK, though. ---
**Author:** ![Andre\_Matar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/andre_matar/32/296078_2.png) [@Andre\_Matar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Andre_Matar)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 11:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-stop-the-nonsense-about-inflation/189917/105 "2019-09-18T11:14:25Z")
> [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](#): > > All this and you didn’t answer the question you quoted. I’ll answer it for you: in a deflationary scenario, you acquire (hoard) money by producing goods and services at an accelerated rate and exchanging them for money The problem with that is nobody is buying your goods because everyone else is trying to hoard ISK as well. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2019, 11:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-stop-the-nonsense-about-inflation/189917/106 "2019-09-18T11:15:13Z")
> [@Andre\_Matar](#): > > A 1% increase in my purchasing power would yield a substantial amount of plex That’s assuming plex price decreases too. The thing is, deflation does not mean ALL prices do decrease. But yeah, it’s easier to plex an account when the price of plex decreases, assuming you gain raw isk and not items that you then resell. > [@Andre\_Matar](#): > > i.e. we cannot assume people will act rationally (hoard isk any more than they already do) It’s only rational to hoard isk when it is a goal in itself. That is, when you don’t want to enjoy the game. Otherwise isk is a resource that you acquire at varrying rate and use at varrying rate. Need more isk ? farm more. Need less ? farm less. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 5:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-stop-the-nonsense-about-inflation/189917/107 "2019-09-19T05:54:49Z")
> [@Andre\_Matar](#): > > The problem with that is nobody is buying your goods because everyone else is trying to hoard ISK as well. This is the problem with deflation… ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 6:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-stop-the-nonsense-about-inflation/189917/108 "2019-09-19T06:27:12Z")
> [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > You are obviously right that the actual jobs are limited because they only exist if they are taken. It was meant more from a supply point of view. There is no upper limit on how many lvl 4 missions the game will generate if demand is there and the ISK payout will not get smaller because the NPCs run out of money. It literally scales infinitely as in it is not possible to exhaust the supply of missions. Of course is can. But will it? If the overall belief is “no” then it won’t. The number of players ratting and thus injecting ISK into the game is a “game” in that players consider what other are doing and formulate a “best response”. And if more people start ratting the best response might shift over to not ratting. > [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > I didn’t mean an economy with items. What I meant is that they are completely independent and still “give their ISK away” even if the players hold on to it. They always value ISK at the same rate, and are not influenced by the behavior of human players unless CCP changes them. NPCs only “give ISK away” to the extent that players are willing to trade time for that ISK. With the blackout it looks very much like the answer is “No.” that is trading time for ISK became much less of a thing. > [@Karak\_Terrel](#): > > Well sure, that may look like an issue and maybe it is. I completely agree with you about the mechanisms behind this. But I just don’t see what negative consequences it could have apart from maybe the market slowing down significantly. It would actually be very interesting to see what happens, after all it’s not like people will starve or something because of it. > > I mean at some point insurance fraud will probably start to work again as a hard floor on the deflation. The problem is in terms of producing goods. Suppose I can transform raw materials into goods and at the same time earn say 10% on my investment. But if my investment cannot return a positive rate of return then why make such an investment. When i look at making t2 125mm autocannons and teh return is less than simply holding ISK and enjoying the benefits of defaltion then I stop making t2 125 gatling autocannons. > [@Punctator](#): > > nah you make error as hell - this is not real world. If you really believe that then you cannot talk about inflation and the money supply as that too is based on real world observations. > [@Punctator](#): > > people rat because they like ratting and gladly will rat if they dont neet to rival with bots and other inventions like blackouts ect. No they don’t. They rat because it provides a greater benefit than not ratting. Look at the data. The money supply has shrunk. Why has it shrunk? because people who would have been ratting stopped. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > You don’t have to, but those that do would get more purchasing power than those that don’t. > > The game wouldn’t deflate to nothingness. And you would not experience a great depression. There is no cost of living in eve, no one’s going to get ‘laid off’ and anyone can get a venture or rookie ship and start mining or missioning. Players would also become more aware of costs/sinks and change their behaviour. Of course there is a cost of living. You want to mine you have to incur certain costs associated with mining. You need to buy a given ship, mining lasers, maybe some crystals, etc. Same if you want to rat. You can avoid a “cost of living” if you do nothing and simply sit in station in your pod. If you don’t want to do that you’ll incur additional costs. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > I was quite happy with some deflation,… Suppose deflation is say, 10% per month. Would you be happy? Probably not at people would not be willing to buy anything at all. If you mind X nobody would want to buy it because next month it would be worth 10% lesss. This is why deflation lead to the great depression. If you buy $500 of raw materials but after selling the final product you only earn $350 you cannot bay your suppliers and you go out of business. This is going to be true in EVE too. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2019, 10:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-stop-the-nonsense-about-inflation/189917/109 "2019-09-19T10:08:35Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > Suppose deflation is say, 10% per month. Would you be happy? Probably not at people would not be willing to buy anything at all. If you mind X nobody would want to buy it because next month it would be worth 10% lesss. That’s because you wrongfully call deflation the case of moving from a stable isk value to a stable other one that is lower. I’s not deflation. it’s a change of balance. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-stop-the-nonsense-about-inflation/189917.md?page=4) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-stop-the-nonsense-about-inflation/189917.md?page=6)