# \[Pochven\] Clarity on change to Observatory Flashpoints made in 20.11 **URL:** \ **Category:** Announcements\ **Created:** [December 13, 2022, 5:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pochven-clarity-on-change-to-observatory-flashpoints-made-in-20-11/388020 "2022-12-13T17:40:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Drake\_Iddon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/drake_iddon/32/412757_2.png) [@Drake\_Iddon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Drake_Iddon)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2022, 10:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pochven-clarity-on-change-to-observatory-flashpoints-made-in-20-11/388020/275 "2022-12-21T10:49:43Z")
i think we can agree on abyssal space itself being against a core pillar of the game due to it being instanced but how do you figure the same for pochven? ---
**Author:** ![Drake\_Iddon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/drake_iddon/32/412757_2.png) [@Drake\_Iddon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Drake_Iddon)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2022, 10:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pochven-clarity-on-change-to-observatory-flashpoints-made-in-20-11/388020/276 "2022-12-21T10:52:52Z")
7 days to December 21, 2022, @ 0355 Eve time - 180.72b 7 days to December 13, 2022, @ 2050 Eve time - 436.02b ---
**Author:** ![Scottie\_Andrews](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scottie_andrews/32/307351_2.png) [@Scottie\_Andrews](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scottie_Andrews)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2022, 12:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pochven-clarity-on-change-to-observatory-flashpoints-made-in-20-11/388020/277 "2022-12-21T12:47:26Z")
Incorrect. Every major group that operates in Pochven has a representative at this planned round table. I understand you are completely out of touch with Pochven, however, rest assured that the person representing your group knows more about Poch and its inner workings than any of your other Ishtar FCs, and is actually pretty well respected in the wider Eve community. I would suggest talking to him and getting clued up. ---
**Author:** ![Boom\_ChoKoLaKa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/boom_chokolaka/32/332397_2.png) [@Boom\_ChoKoLaKa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Boom_ChoKoLaKa)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2022, 1:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pochven-clarity-on-change-to-observatory-flashpoints-made-in-20-11/388020/278 "2022-12-21T13:36:09Z")
Oh, is it you, that talking head from the TV that has never been in the pochven? ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2022, 2:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pochven-clarity-on-change-to-observatory-flashpoints-made-in-20-11/388020/279 "2022-12-21T14:16:00Z")
> [@Dyver\_Phycad](#): > > Pochven needs to be removed. It – and abyssal space in general – is a mistake that hurts the health of the rest of the game. Too late for that now. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2022, 2:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pochven-clarity-on-change-to-observatory-flashpoints-made-in-20-11/388020/280 "2022-12-21T14:26:44Z")
> [@Dyver\_Phycad](#): > > Limit this behavior to ships that have bonuses to drone damage/HP/tracking/whatever and we can talk. It would be extremely frustrating if the NPC behaved like that on other ships that do not have any of these bonuses and use drones only as auxiliary damage/utility. The drone aggro could be based on damage&ewar done to the NPCs by drones compared to damage&ewar done by the players ship itself. They would simply identify the biggest “threat” to them and begin to switch aggro to it. That way drone bonused ships would trigger this aggroswitch a lot more often than turret/launcher based ships, forcing them to actively care for their drones without making it a mess for anyone else. > [@Dyver\_Phycad](#): > > But most importantly: Don’t repeat the stupid stunt from last year when CCP turned auto-aggression on drones off so that they didn’t even attack when you fired weapons at a target. That was beyond dense. Wasn’t my idea. I like drones as kinda different and autonomous weapon design but only as long as it is ensured that player input is needed from time to time to keep them alive. Else multiboxers can simlpy upscale damage too easy with them and they work too well in afk playstyles. ---
**Author:** ![Dromihet](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dromihet/32/379618_2.png) [@Dromihet](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dromihet)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2022, 4:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pochven-clarity-on-change-to-observatory-flashpoints-made-in-20-11/388020/281 "2022-12-21T16:36:44Z")
to close that question with ishtars … All is needed is add stasis web towers or npc and make NPC inside agro on everyone, with 1 standing to trigl or both standings … It killing me as a player when i see inside Obs 6 bombers or 15 kiki’s with double standings … Most of you said you did everything to ban multiboxers and etc … Yeah some packs were gone BUT old packs like kikis and others (depend on TZ) still running it make me crazy It means that those damn cheaters are your friends or they are sitting with you at the same round table … Too many questions in pochven - no answers. CCP should check were all those ISK gone from Obs and do what they have to do 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Drake\_Iddon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/drake_iddon/32/412757_2.png) [@Drake\_Iddon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Drake_Iddon)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2022, 6:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pochven-clarity-on-change-to-observatory-flashpoints-made-in-20-11/388020/282 "2022-12-21T18:18:08Z")
> [@Dromihet](#): > > Yeah some packs were gone BUT old packs like kikis and others (depend on TZ) still running it specifically people who were input broadcasting lots of clients were the ones getting the bans, to my knowledge none of the ones banned ever ran kikis or ishtars the ones that were banned (many many MANY times over mind you) mainly ran paladins, vargurs and eos the only person i know of that ran kikis was xao/ephraine, he’s one of the legit ones ---
**Author:** ![Jenn\_aSide](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jenn_aside/32/384682_2.png) [@Jenn\_aSide](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jenn_aSide)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2022, 9:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pochven-clarity-on-change-to-observatory-flashpoints-made-in-20-11/388020/283 "2022-12-21T21:43:05Z")
I don’t know what the answers are here. I just know that pochven was this cool mix of pve and pvp that maybe paid out too much but really revitalized the game for me and my buddies in a way that other areas don’t. CCP should want people there and should understand what motivates people. ---
**Author:** ![Drake\_Iddon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/drake_iddon/32/412757_2.png) [@Drake\_Iddon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Drake_Iddon)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2022, 12:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pochven-clarity-on-change-to-observatory-flashpoints-made-in-20-11/388020/284 "2022-12-22T00:42:01Z")
added 21st Dec kill data, unfortunately onedrive is no longer playing ball with me and it wont let me extend the data range, so its cutting off the start of november gg microsoft ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/4/a/3/4a36764c885561aceb6022ad899cdbd1b3a68d08.png) ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2022, 10:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pochven-clarity-on-change-to-observatory-flashpoints-made-in-20-11/388020/285 "2022-12-22T10:10:54Z")
You know what it is not too late for? Delete Abyssal instance gameplay and integrate it into Pochven. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2022, 4:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pochven-clarity-on-change-to-observatory-flashpoints-made-in-20-11/388020/286 "2022-12-22T16:13:37Z")
> [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > You know what it is not too late for? Delete Abyssal instance gameplay and integrate it into Pochven Way, way, way too late for that. ---
**Author:** ![Dyver\_Phycad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dyver_phycad/32/358575_2.png) [@Dyver\_Phycad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dyver_Phycad)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2022, 6:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pochven-clarity-on-change-to-observatory-flashpoints-made-in-20-11/388020/287 "2022-12-23T06:25:10Z")
That was never a possibility from the start because Abyssal PVE and open space PVE are utterly incompatible. CCP wants abyssal instances to be a safe, high reward PVE almost immune to any outside interference so that the crabs would dish out more and more RL cash to finance their hobby with more and more PLEX purchases. The way they set it up is impossible to achieve outside of instances. ---
**Author:** ![Drake\_Iddon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/drake_iddon/32/412757_2.png) [@Drake\_Iddon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Drake_Iddon)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2022, 12:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pochven-clarity-on-change-to-observatory-flashpoints-made-in-20-11/388020/288 "2022-12-24T00:23:55Z")
They aren’t incompatible whatsoever, if anything the combination of them in pochven might be a perfect way for tiny teams of people to get both pvp and pve that isnt OBS, knowing that you might get invaded but also being able to control the weather you are in would provide a pretty huge home-field advantage also updated stats for the 22nd and 23rd, added the skarkon fight back in and just flagged it as an exceptional event, 23rds numbers should obviously be taken with a massive grain of salt because its the xmas period now ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/4/4/4/444096bfe60778d535724c1dc59455a2b3aa8a80.png) i’ll update them further when i’m back after the xmas period, peace bois have a good one ---
**Author:** ![Sharin\_Nidar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sharin_nidar/32/383225_2.png) [@Sharin\_Nidar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sharin_Nidar)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2022, 12:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pochven-clarity-on-change-to-observatory-flashpoints-made-in-20-11/388020/289 "2022-12-24T00:45:37Z")
Drake, can you compare this same period to last year from patch day through now? I think that’d be an interesting comparison… 13/12/21-23/12/21 compared to 13/12/22-23/12/22 ---
**Author:** ![Drake\_Iddon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/drake_iddon/32/412757_2.png) [@Drake\_Iddon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Drake_Iddon)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2022, 1:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pochven-clarity-on-change-to-observatory-flashpoints-made-in-20-11/388020/290 "2022-12-24T01:36:11Z")
yeah thats pretty easy to do notable things from 2021 [16th - Wirashoda fight, horde attempts to drown a snuffed obs fleet with moas and nagas, loses 186 ships while killing 16 destroyers (lmao)](https://zkillboard.com/related/30000206/202112162000/) Kills (plot 1 is 13th Dec, 2 is 14th, etc etc etc) ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/e/b/c/ebc8ef42b6425c4a97fed43de64b07a438876588.png) Isk Value (b) ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/0/0/c/00c4a4a7034fa92cf40ac6fc29aee707536d8501.png) ---
**Author:** ![Dyver\_Phycad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dyver_phycad/32/358575_2.png) [@Dyver\_Phycad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dyver_Phycad)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2022, 6:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pochven-clarity-on-change-to-observatory-flashpoints-made-in-20-11/388020/291 "2022-12-24T06:01:52Z")
> [@Drake\_Iddon](#): > > They aren’t incompatible whatsoever, if anything the combination of them in pochven might be a perfect way for tiny teams of people to get both pvp and pve that isnt OBS, PVP is not what the abyss is about (any more). Abyss is about undisturbed, uninterruptable, safe farming. ---
**Author:** ![ResonanceOfWar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/resonanceofwar/32/408654_2.png) [@ResonanceOfWar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ResonanceOfWar)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2022, 9:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pochven-clarity-on-change-to-observatory-flashpoints-made-in-20-11/388020/292 "2022-12-24T09:44:07Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > Way, way, way too late for that. Never too late, thats the great thing about design its endless. > [@Dyver\_Phycad](#): > > PVP is not what the abyss is about (any more). Abyss is about undisturbed, uninterruptable, safe farming. Agree I hate that players are removed from the universe, if abyss runners are smart they can run them in low sec and maybe get caught once a year or something. High sec has higher chance of being caught than low but even then its pretty low if its not near jita. Love Tipa’s idea of the sites spawning in pochven pocket’s instead of completely out of the eve universe. Maybe they filament from anywhere but travel to a combat probable pochven deadspace pocket and when they done go back to k-space but people can combat probe you down and warp inside the plex. ---
**Author:** ![never\_vampire](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/never_vampire/32/296217_2.png) [@never\_vampire](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/never_vampire)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2022, 10:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pochven-clarity-on-change-to-observatory-flashpoints-made-in-20-11/388020/293 "2022-12-24T10:31:59Z")
CCP: No fun allowed! ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2022, 4:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pochven-clarity-on-change-to-observatory-flashpoints-made-in-20-11/388020/294 "2022-12-24T16:19:01Z")
> [@ResonanceOfWar](#): > > Never too late, thats the great thing about design its endless. Once folks get used to something and like it, taking it away is a recipe for disaster. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pochven-clarity-on-change-to-observatory-flashpoints-made-in-20-11/388020.md?page=13) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pochven-clarity-on-change-to-observatory-flashpoints-made-in-20-11/388020.md?page=15)