# Poetic Justice: A view of anti-gankers failing

**URL:** <https://forums.eveonline.com/t/poetic-justice-a-view-of-anti-gankers-failing/346243>\
**Category:** Crime & Punishment\
**Created:** [January 18, 2022, 4:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/poetic-justice-a-view-of-anti-gankers-failing/346243 "2022-01-18T04:22:43Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 9

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**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\
**Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 1:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/poetic-justice-a-view-of-anti-gankers-failing/346243/164 "2022-09-17T13:57:00Z")

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> [@DrysonBennington](#):
>
> High Sec gankers weren’t a thing until CCP made Eve Online FTP.

Rubbish . Started ganking on my first day a long long time ago when the universe was still young, before Princess Aiko, the true savior of Highsec was even born.

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**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\
**Post date:** [September 17, 2022, 2:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/poetic-justice-a-view-of-anti-gankers-failing/346243/165 "2022-09-17T14:05:44Z")

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> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#):
>
> War decs used to be how you “ganked” people

Miss those days.

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**Author:** ![Githany\_Red](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/githany_red/32/378551_2.png) [@Githany\_Red](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Githany_Red)\
**Post date:** [September 19, 2022, 1:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/poetic-justice-a-view-of-anti-gankers-failing/346243/166 "2022-09-19T01:09:34Z")

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> [@DrysonBennington](#):
>
> I am watching three flights of Standup Einherji II’s orbiting the Juunigaishi gate in Uedama.

Does anyone know what’s the point of the fighters at the gate. I did hear it’s to mess with cloaking, which is frowned upon I believe.

If it was Ag can the fighters attack flashy reds, if they could are fighter effective on ganker type ships.  
Secondly how do you get fighters around a gate , i thought fighter range was 450 ish km, so can a group of structures close together support each other with fighter , hypothetically.

On a side note have the number of pos gone up I was flying in the pipe to uedama and the amount on d scan seem to be higher. Perimeter having ones called moon blockers, why the Perimeter police want to block the use of moons.

Someone want to speculate.

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**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\
**Post date:** [September 19, 2022, 7:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/poetic-justice-a-view-of-anti-gankers-failing/346243/167 "2022-09-19T07:44:35Z")

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Ill speculate on the blockers. Some sort of POS strategy or new POS type that some have got a rumour of perhaps?

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**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\
**Post date:** [September 19, 2022, 8:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/poetic-justice-a-view-of-anti-gankers-failing/346243/168 "2022-09-19T08:45:02Z")

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You can only target something and fire on it within 450 km with fighters, but you can move them around grid. They are indeed being used to decloak, as you can make them move to precise locations. Would be a good target for a war dec.

I think structures and fighters can only attack in hisec those that you are at war with, pretty certain that is it.

As for the POS’s, they still have some use, people can compress in the POS shield, and I have a feeling that some indy modules still work, not sure which ones though. Idle speculation on a Tethering nerf perhaps…

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**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\
**Post date:** [September 19, 2022, 9:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/poetic-justice-a-view-of-anti-gankers-failing/346243/169 "2022-09-19T09:31:58Z")

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I love when people think their fooling people 😃

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**Author:** ![Githany\_Red](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/githany_red/32/378551_2.png) [@Githany\_Red](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Githany_Red)\
**Post date:** [September 19, 2022, 10:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/poetic-justice-a-view-of-anti-gankers-failing/346243/170 "2022-09-19T10:42:26Z")

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> [@Dracvlad](#):
>
> As for the POS’s, they still have some use, people can compress in the POS shield, and I have a feeling that some indy modules still work, not sure which ones though.

I setup a pos a short time ago and all the combat fittings and defence modules seem to work still, the hangers seem to work too.

So decloaking it is, seems a lot of effect to go to .

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**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/516281_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\
**Post date:** [September 19, 2022, 5:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/poetic-justice-a-view-of-anti-gankers-failing/346243/171 "2022-09-19T17:13:42Z")

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![fighters](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/4/4/2/44253bf7d8b9ac9ff2bc2ee0909b56110b68380b.jpeg)

The goal seems to be to decloak people who want to use cloak/MWD, fighters are pretty fast and can be freely positioned on grid, so 10 seconds are more then enough to decloak a DST, FactionBS or Marauder for example that tries to escape that way.

However, I watched one evening and it has not even been successfully used while I was there. Maybe its just in a testing phase so far.

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**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\
**Post date:** [September 19, 2022, 5:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/poetic-justice-a-view-of-anti-gankers-failing/346243/172 "2022-09-19T17:35:45Z")

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Since CCP still refuses to patch out the MWD/cloak exploit, players are looking for any means possible to deal with it on their own terms.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/516281_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\
**Post date:** [September 19, 2022, 6:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/poetic-justice-a-view-of-anti-gankers-failing/346243/173 "2022-09-19T18:30:48Z")

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Cloak/MWD is explicitly listed as non-exploit game mechanic by CCP.

> **[Known & Declared Exploits](https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/204873262-Known-Declared-Exploits)**
>
> Disclaimer
> This article outlines public exploit notifications which are still in effect and addresses certain practices which are commonly misunderstood as exploits when they in fact are not.
> Pleas...

So I assume CCP want it to be in the game, just like they want ganking to be a part of the game.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\
**Post date:** [September 19, 2022, 6:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/poetic-justice-a-view-of-anti-gankers-failing/346243/174 "2022-09-19T18:44:59Z")

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It absolutely _is_ an exploit; just one that CCP hasn’t chosen to address up to this point. It has no counter-play, and makes anyone using it completely invincible when they travel, if they’re able to pull off the sequence properly.

This isn’t the only one of course. There are other similar exploits in the game. CCP considers them not to be exploits right up to the point that they change the rules and _make_ them exploits. A very good example of this is “boomeranging” during ganking. For many years it was possible to bounce around on grid with something like a Tornado, taking a shot every time you land, which made it possible to gank big targets with fewer ships, or sometimes even just one. Then one day CCP declared it an exploit, and patched it out shortly afterward.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Vokan\_Narkar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vokan_narkar/32/326293_2.png) [@Vokan\_Narkar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vokan_Narkar)\
**Post date:** [September 19, 2022, 6:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/poetic-justice-a-view-of-anti-gankers-failing/346243/175 "2022-09-19T18:45:04Z")

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Oh my god, did you really used THE word? You should know its forbidden and it pisses players off.

There are no \*\*\*\*\* in EVE. Everything is intended. And even if it wasn’t intended, it is just easier for CCP to claim it was than to fix it, so yeah intended mechanic from the very start.

> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#):
>
> and makes anyone using it completely invincible when they travel,

My friend tried that with Orca in lowsec and it didn’t make him invulnerable 😃

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\
**Post date:** [September 19, 2022, 6:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/poetic-justice-a-view-of-anti-gankers-failing/346243/176 "2022-09-19T18:48:39Z")

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> [@Vokan\_Narkar](#):
>
> My friend tried that with Orca in lowsec and it didn’t make him invulnerable 😃

That means he didn’t pull off the sequence properly, or had an improper fit.

I’ve killed **many** players using this trick. I’ve killed like 30 DSTs in the past half year alone, and every single one was doing this. But make no mistake, the only reason why I killed them was because _they screwed up,_ either by holding too long or cutting too short, or not fitting their ship to effectively have that “Goldilocks” zone of speed and acceleration.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Vokan\_Narkar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vokan_narkar/32/326293_2.png) [@Vokan\_Narkar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vokan_Narkar)\
**Post date:** [September 19, 2022, 6:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/poetic-justice-a-view-of-anti-gankers-failing/346243/177 "2022-09-19T18:52:05Z")

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Well I can’t fly Orca, but fitting simulator shows that you need 30 seconds to warp away while cloak lasts 10. I believe the MWD-Cloak trick only works on ships \< 10 seconds to warp, if it is more then the ship won’t initiate warp right after cloak is cancelled.

To be clear I agree with you, I am just pointing out that you are saying very dangerous things which will make many peoples angry. I once claimed that CONCORD pulling is an e\*ploit and the ■■■■ storm that the statement started was really something.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\
**Post date:** [September 19, 2022, 6:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/poetic-justice-a-view-of-anti-gankers-failing/346243/178 "2022-09-19T18:57:07Z")

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> [@Vokan\_Narkar](#):
>
> Well I can’t fly Orca, but fitting simulator shows that you need 30 seconds to warp away while cloak lasts 10. I believe the MWD-Cloak trick only works on ships \< 10 seconds to warp, if it is more then the ship won’t initiate warp right after cloak is cancelled.

No, that’s incorrect. It works on the principle of 25% of your MWD velocity after 10 seconds of acceleration (since cloak penalty is 75%) being higher than 75% of your normal velocity. If your hauler goes 100 normally and 500 with MWD, its top speed with MWD during cloak is 125, so as long as it reaches 75 during the sequence, it will warp, which means you only need to reach 60% of your cloaked MWD speed in 10 seconds in this example. Actually it’s more like 13 seconds, because even “insta-lockers” need 2-3 seconds to lock.

In reality is what happens is that you can actually decloak and initiate warp 2-3 seconds before the MWD cycle ends, and the tackler won’t be able to lock you in time anyway. The tackler needs to decloak you within about 6-7 seconds to get a tackle, which is impossible to do because of all the tics for command server delays, and traveling the actual distance to the target. Oh, and if the tackler goes too fast, they go right through the target without decloaking it, so tacklers need to limit their speed to about 3.5 km/s tops.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Vokan\_Narkar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/vokan_narkar/32/326293_2.png) [@Vokan\_Narkar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Vokan_Narkar)\
**Post date:** [September 19, 2022, 6:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/poetic-justice-a-view-of-anti-gankers-failing/346243/179 "2022-09-19T18:59:57Z")

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thanks I didn’t know this

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\
**Post date:** [September 19, 2022, 7:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/poetic-justice-a-view-of-anti-gankers-failing/346243/180 "2022-09-19T19:01:17Z")

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> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#):
>
> MWD/cloak exploit

Quite happy with the MWD/Cloak trick thank you very much as not everybody is pleased to see me.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\
**Post date:** [September 19, 2022, 7:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/poetic-justice-a-view-of-anti-gankers-failing/346243/181 "2022-09-19T19:04:27Z")

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So are all of the null-sec ISK botters transporting their loot to Jita, who call me a “foreign homo” in Russian or Chinese when I’m unable to catch them.

But every once in a while, I **do** catch them:

> **[Occator | Vagana | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/101530522/)**
>
> Vagana (Wolframium) lost their Occator in Shera (Genesis) Total Value: 8,279,834,966.52 ISK

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\
**Post date:** [September 19, 2022, 7:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/poetic-justice-a-view-of-anti-gankers-failing/346243/182 "2022-09-19T19:06:20Z")

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> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#):
>
> in Russian or Chinese when I’m unable to catch them.

Now thats what happens when you learn Russian or Chineese, the rest of us have no clue what they are saying. Losing 8.3 billion though, that’s a harsh lesson.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/516281_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\
**Post date:** [September 19, 2022, 7:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/poetic-justice-a-view-of-anti-gankers-failing/346243/183 "2022-09-19T19:08:24Z")

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> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#):
>
> It absolutely _is_ an exploit; just one that CCP hasn’t chosen to address up to this point. It has no counter-play, and makes anyone using it completely invincible when they travel, if they’re able to pull off the sequence properly.

You may think about whatever you like, I just wanted to link the official CCP document which makes clear that Cloak/MWD **is not** considered a game exploit, so people following the discussion don’t get the feeling they are doing something that is not allowed.

Besides that, in the past we used Dramiels or Ceptors (with an attached droneball sometimes) regulary to decloak people and tackle them within 10sec when doing Lowsec Gatecamps. I have also seen it WH Space done by others with some success. It doesn’t work every time, but one can become pretty good at it. Good spawning position of course helps. So the “there is no counterplay” assumption is just wrong. It’s hard, not guaranteed, but doable with some rate of success.

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