# Policy Update - Real Life Threats & Harassment **URL:** \ **Category:** Announcements\ **Tags:** feedback, official\ **Created:** [September 20, 2018, 3:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861 "2018-09-20T15:58:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Gneeznow](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gneeznow/32/138237_2.png) [@Gneeznow](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gneeznow)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 9:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/208 "2018-09-20T21:15:45Z")
> [@AnarchoJohn\_Etnannarac](#): > > How does CCP define hate speech? You know, I was about to reply to this with some elaboration on how hate speech is treated these days, but then deleted my typed out reply because I figured I might catch a ban for it. Such times we live in where we stifle discussion for fear of offending someone. > [@Kalldaar](#): > > and most of us are pretty happy with our laws regarding this matter… Yes, I too hate freedom of speech comrade, we should all watch what we say. > [@Heera-o\_Helugo](#): > > What is common can often be wrong. We live in a world where anything that challenges a persons beliefs is harassment. Any disagreement with a member of the opposite sex is sexual harassment and sexism. Everything is a hate crime today. CCP has never been consistant with their policy enforcement. This policy is just a new system to be abused. Right on the money ---
**Author:** ![Eve\_Griefer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/eve_griefer/32/277788_2.png) [@Eve\_Griefer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Eve_Griefer)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 9:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/209 "2018-09-20T21:23:14Z")
> [@Mingja](#): > > As you can clearly see, there are two vastly different definitions. I would disagree based on: > [@Mingja](#): > > Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one’s own race is superior. being quite similar to > [@Mingja](#): > > racism is a theory of races hierachy which argues that the superior race should be preserved and should dominate the others. though I do agree that > [@Mingja](#): > > Racism can also be an unfair attitude towards another ethnic group. is a bit vague in that “unfair attitude” is vague. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 9:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/210 "2018-09-20T21:26:25Z")
Is this where we drop a #freestunt, or a GigX did nothing wrong comment? Seems the updates just reflect practice as it’s been for a while, particularly on using evidence from third-party sites and applications. Not much of an issue unless I’m totally missing something. ---
**Author:** ![Mingja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mingja/32/50857_2.png) [@Mingja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mingja)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 9:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/211 "2018-09-20T21:28:09Z")
> [@Eve\_Griefer](#): > > being quite similar to Uhm, I do think that appointing races and (positive or negative) traits to people is vastly different from establishing a hierarchy that is used to dominate the others, let alone preserving a specific race. Also, one does include “social groups” and one does not, which makes it a totally different beast. If you include social groups, it has nothing to do with race anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Moac\_Tor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/moac_tor/32/137663_2.png) [@Moac\_Tor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Moac_Tor)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 9:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/212 "2018-09-20T21:28:54Z")
I didn’t read the changes, but I hope Eve isn’t going the way of social media where anything can be defined as hate speech or racism. There are more important things that the CSM should be working on. Apart from real life threats or attacks, I don’t see why this matters when it is simple to just block a person. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 9:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/213 "2018-09-20T21:29:27Z")
> [@Dominika\_E\_gorova](#): > > I would however like to ask further to this point. Where does the line stop? If I do an Eve Online game review on Youtube and happen to voice my displeasure or outrage at something or someone’s actions does this then violate CCP Games policy under the section given in the link below? > > ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/3/9/e/39e350f295ba20ec52c08cda988e5a6863a70813.png) [Gyazo](https://gyazo.com/3f8c108889acb1772cf6bdcba8a4d082) I think you’ll be fine as long as you don’t make a real life threat on the other platform. ---
**Author:** ![Nolak\_Ataru](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nolak_ataru/32/258421_2.png) [@Nolak\_Ataru](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nolak_Ataru)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 9:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/214 "2018-09-20T21:29:54Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > This isn’t speech regulation. This is acknowledging that when people make threats against folks playing a game, those threats need to be taken seriously ■■■■■■■■. I was reported and received a ticket for responding to a troll in local with a “i ■■■■■■ your mother” joke after he spend the better part of 15 minutes spewing racism and other abuse at me and my friends. CCP is changing this policy for the sole reason that they joined the ■■■■■■■■ “Fair Play Alliance” without doing proper research as to who runs it. Fun fact: The people running the FPA are some of the biggest known harassers, abusers, and doxxers in gaming, and should not be taken seriously at all. They’re a textbook case of “create a problem and sell a solution” and CCP should back out as soon as possible. ---
**Author:** ![Leelo\_dallasmultipas](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/leelo_dallasmultipas/32/470020_2.png) [@Leelo\_dallasmultipas](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Leelo_dallasmultipas)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 9:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/215 "2018-09-20T21:30:12Z")
I want to preface this by saying: Enjoy the fall down the rabbit hole. "The types of behaviour that we consider to be harassment include but are not limited to: - Verbal abuse - Abusive messaging - Real world stalking - Online stalking - Social Media stalking - Encouraging or enabling self-harm - Doxing - Racism - Sexism - Hate speech" I would say that before any action is taken, each of these things need to be defined, what is all entailed in Online Stalking? Does that mean, or can it mean, just wardeccing a corporation and camping them in station? Doing location searches and “stalking” your prey? Like, this isn’t nearly specific enough to be enforceable. What is hate speech online? What is racism…in eve…does that extend to hating the gallente slaves beacuse you’re amarr? ---
**Author:** ![Moac\_Tor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/moac_tor/32/137663_2.png) [@Moac\_Tor](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Moac_Tor)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 9:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/216 "2018-09-20T21:33:15Z")
Hate speech is meaningless nowadays. It basically means you said something that someone finds offensive which is pretty easy with the current generation of snowflakes. Anything can be interpreted as hate speech. It is basically an excuse for the government to use these draconian laws to shut down political opposition or jail people for making a harmless joke. ---
**Author:** ![Mingja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mingja/32/50857_2.png) [@Mingja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mingja)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 9:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/217 "2018-09-20T21:36:50Z")
> [@Leelo\_dallasmultipas](#): > > I would say that before any action is taken, each of these things need to be defined, It get’s even more pressing when you consider the fact that CCP has openly communicated that “being a d_ck in eve is not only accepted, but also encouraged". CCP accepted market scams (completely illegal in RL), promoted them even, and things like "questioning once’s se_uality in local” in the past, which would classify as HateSpeech nowadays, depending on who you ask. What once was part of the game and even an accepted profession (!) is now a bannable offense? That doesn’t make sense and as a player, I can’t just accept a “we don’t give you any broader definition because we are affraid players will use it against us” (which doesn’t even matter one bit!). Just tell us what you have on your mind and stop ignoring that things aren’t easy anymore please. ---
**Author:** ![Mingja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mingja/32/50857_2.png) [@Mingja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mingja)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 9:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/218 "2018-09-20T21:46:12Z")
> [@Moac\_Tor](#): > > Hate speech is meaningless nowadays. It basically means you said something that someone finds offensive which is pretty easy with the current generation of snowflakes. Anything can be interpreted as hate speech. It is basically an excuse for the government to use these draconian laws to shut down political opposition or jail people for making a harmless joke It’s not as easy as that either. The internet is a harsh place and it got a lot harsher during the last 2-3 years. Our politicians made HateSpeech-Laws because they’ve observed a correlation between bad behaviour online and a rise in crime. I do think it makes sense (some at least, if that’s true), but I am very much against vaguely defined or worse, completely undefined or varying terms. We all need rules we all have to abide. It doesn’t work when everyone can make their own laws/rules on every single occassion. I too think that CCP wants to be as consistent as possible and I really understand (from first hand experience) that arguing with players over bans is quite the nuisance, but a GM’s comfort shouldn’t have priority over clear rules for players. ---
**Author:** ![Ima\_Wreckyou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ima_wreckyou/32/235531_2.png) [@Ima\_Wreckyou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ima_Wreckyou)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 10:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/219 "2018-09-20T22:00:35Z")
> [@Ethan\_Meklan](#): > > CODE can actually be very harassing and insulting at times, often placing bounties on you and sending eve mail if you don’t have a permit, makes me feel bad. This is a clear example of harassment. No it isn’t and you know it. And if you really think that you are deluding yourself ---
**Author:** ![Mortlake](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mortlake/32/510240_2.png) [@Mortlake](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mortlake)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 10:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/220 "2018-09-20T22:04:53Z")
I’m not joking, guys. Someone really did threaten to touch my goat. I’m serious. Like I said, I don’t even have one, but what if I did? Stop laughing. ---
**Author:** ![Gadget\_Helmsdottir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gadget_helmsdottir/32/374037_2.png) [@Gadget\_Helmsdottir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gadget_Helmsdottir)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 10:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/221 "2018-09-20T22:08:00Z")
Sense common to whom? –Uncommon Gadget ---
**Author:** ![Charles\_Surge](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/charles_surge/32/379092_2.png) [@Charles\_Surge](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Charles_Surge)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 10:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/222 "2018-09-20T22:09:19Z")
Gaslighting point brought up is good; main abuser then reporting the “victim” 's response, etc. In addition to my earlier post, I’ll steal the point someone made about making this policy change (again, I have no idea what was actually changed) more visible. If it is made an intrusive thing, like re-agreeing to an EULA or something, or a pop-up on the Launcher then the objectionable actions are more likely to be actually corrected (and CCP saves employee time correcting/banning people and still gets their money) and EVE players will be more likely to believe CCP is serious. If preventing the objectionable actions is actually the goal. As is, aside from [other potential problems], it is hard to believe this will actually be implemented based on the percentage of people that would be banned. Can bold, italic, and underline the next sentence, but I’m not going to risk doing so. The percentage of players who use the objectionable actions listed due to their own reasons… is significant. Significant. (I am not willing to risk characterizing/explaining these reasons.) If the players whom – in-my-reasoning – deserve punishment do receive it, then fantastic. It’s hard to imagine currently, given everything. ---
**Author:** ![Dregoth\_Urik](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dregoth_urik/32/161209_2.png) [@Dregoth\_Urik](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dregoth_Urik)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 10:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/223 "2018-09-20T22:09:42Z")
GTFU. ---
**Author:** ![Circumstantial\_Evidence](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/circumstantial_evidence/32/399551_2.png) [@Circumstantial\_Evidence](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Circumstantial_Evidence)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 10:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/224 "2018-09-20T22:14:54Z")
> [@Mingja](#): > > As you can clearly see, there are two vastly different definitions. Now, which one is used by CCP? Being the german that I am, I would clearly go with our definition of racism, which matches the Oxford one. The approach to explaining the terms differs, but I don’t see a “vast” difference between the two, as it would affect CCP. The Oxford definition front-loads ethical negative considerations, but the end of the first clause uses the same word “superior” that the UN definition explains. The UN offers a more mechanical definition, getting to ethics with the word “unfair” in the second clause. It explains it in the context of social groups and not individuals. But, Individuals are members of social groups. Both definitions can work for CCP, because CCP provides ethical context that they consider racism directed at real players to be harassment. ---
**Author:** ![Sabriz\_Adoudel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sabriz_adoudel/32/14017_2.png) [@Sabriz\_Adoudel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sabriz_Adoudel)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 10:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/225 "2018-09-20T22:21:35Z")
It’s more that miners are particularly well known for this sort of behaviour. When I was actively ganking in highsec I was getting IRL threats from perhaps 5% of, uh, clients. ---
**Author:** ![Ragnar\_Rokh](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ragnar_rokh/32/84600_2.png) [@Ragnar\_Rokh](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ragnar_Rokh)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 10:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/226 "2018-09-20T22:24:41Z")
Can I just say… About bloody time? ---
**Author:** ![Farr\_Arrow](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/farr_arrow/32/243365_2.png) [@Farr\_Arrow](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Farr_Arrow)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 10:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/227 "2018-09-20T22:26:28Z")
Good work on this Brisc Rubal. nice1 [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861.md?page=10) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861.md?page=12)