# Policy Update - Real Life Threats & Harassment **URL:** \ **Category:** Announcements\ **Tags:** feedback, official\ **Created:** [September 20, 2018, 3:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861 "2018-09-20T15:58:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Diemos\_Hiaraki](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diemos_hiaraki/32/97833_2.png) [@Diemos\_Hiaraki](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diemos_Hiaraki)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 3:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/349 "2018-09-21T15:12:24Z")
Can someone define for me what hate speech is? As far as I can tell it’s just disagreeing with a political opinion that happens to be in fashion. Buzzwords might make you look good in the eyes of polygon and it’s ilk, but in my opinion your loyal players deserve a policy that is clear and concise. Look, I’m an old man and I don’t understand what half of this policy update is alluding to - it’s so damn vague. I’ve had nothing but verbal abuse during my time online gaming, and even the most angelic players can hurl the most foul mouthed abuse in the heat of the moment. Are they all going to get banned? We’re supposed to be adults here, but reading that policy reads like school rules - no worse - it reads like Teresa May’s manifesto; draconian and authoritarian. This does not inspire trust from my perspective. because it appears that New Eden is going to be turned into a school playing ground. This looks like a recipe for entrapment to me too - we’ll see. ---
**Author:** ![Ho\_Ma\_Fan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ho_ma_fan/32/189383_2.png) [@Ho\_Ma\_Fan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ho_Ma_Fan)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 3:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/350 "2018-09-21T15:16:52Z")
look, obviously you’re on the griefer’s side… you know darned well that it’s cultivated, encouraged and protected by the maintenance and defense of certain game mechanics… …. or HAS been, up to now 😛 ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 3:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/351 "2018-09-21T15:19:23Z")
> [@Furoth](#): > > > [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > > > I’ve seen my fair share of violence in real life and I can tell you that the vast majority of it starts with words and escalating over time to a readyness to beat each other up or worse. > > You say that ‘hate speech’ leads to violence; as if people are mindless sheep who follow the first thing they hear and therefore ‘hate speech’ must be stopped. You don’t even define ‘hate speech’. It’s a subjective weapon with no point that you keep swinging around. In other words stop differing opinions or we’re going to be in a global bar fight. I don’t think so. It’s not giving someone else a shitty time simply because they find opinions or beliefs offensive. That’s how you got into those fights. You should have walked away before you got your black eye. Real life examples to clarify. Situation 1 was in a subway station. I heard someone screaming, it sounded aggressive so I went to take a look. Turns out a man in his 40s was racially harassing and threatening a black woman with her infant child in present. She was super afraid of him. I stepped in, told him in a very unkind way to shut his mouth (without threatening him directly, but I think he understood that I am giving him the choice to fight me instead of the mom and kid or calm down and walk away). He walked away. Situation solved without any real violence. Situation 2 was outside, larger crowd. A bunch of guys who were looking for trouble started harassing a random guy. Peoples (including myself) attempt to show understanding and resolve it with peaceful talk ended in a huge fight with several people ending up in the hospital with swollen faces. Situation escalated because the haters were allowed to spool themselves up to the point they felt ready for action. The gist is this: people with malicious intent will always try to scope out how far they can go. This counts for real violence just as much as for people who intent to cause a breach of peace with words (insults, threats and such). While scoping it out, someone needs to match or go beyond their current level of escalation and show them in the clearest way, that a continuiation on their chosen path will only lead against the wall for them. This is what CCP is doing here. Be a normal person and you will never get in touch with these rules. Be here to cause havoc outside of the game, you deserve to be kicked. Easy and simple. ---
**Author:** ![Ima\_Wreckyou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ima_wreckyou/32/235531_2.png) [@Ima\_Wreckyou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ima_Wreckyou)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 3:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/352 "2018-09-21T15:19:38Z")
> [@Ho\_Ma\_Fan](#): > > look, obviously you’re on the griefer’s side… > > you know darned well that it’s cultivated, encouraged and protected by the maintenance and defense of certain game mechanics… And what game mechanics would that be? You talked about Wingspan killing miners in w-space, do you think that should not be allowed or what? ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 3:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/353 "2018-09-21T15:22:05Z")
![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/0/9/0962e38775d1363f4667679b1c9d70b095b05435.jpeg) All those evil EVE players 😂 ---
**Author:** ![anas\_moraished](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anas_moraished/32/135612_2.png) [@anas\_moraished](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/anas_moraished)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 3:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/354 "2018-09-21T15:22:33Z")
@zluq_zabaa Thank you for answering. Your answers convincing me but are you an offical guy to speak about CCP ? Maybe they have diffrint prespictive. ---
**Author:** ![Ho\_Ma\_Fan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ho_ma_fan/32/189383_2.png) [@Ho\_Ma\_Fan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ho_Ma_Fan)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 3:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/355 "2018-09-21T15:22:49Z")
right! Wingspan… Nah, I just mentioned him as an example of a gloating prick enjoying the sorrow of others which he gleefully caused… I think you know all about the “mechanics” ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 3:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/356 "2018-09-21T15:25:58Z")
> [@anas\_moraished](#): > > Thank you for anwering. > Your answers convincing me but are you an offical guy to speak about CCP ? > Maybe they have diffrint prespictive. No I’m not. I just didn’t know if there would be an official answer for every single question, so I replied in good faith as far as my understanding of the rules go. Just so you have a reply. If I’m wrong, I’m sure someone else or CCP will reply again. ---
**Author:** ![anas\_moraished](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anas_moraished/32/135612_2.png) [@anas\_moraished](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/anas_moraished)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 3:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/357 "2018-09-21T15:27:19Z")
It is fine man and i appritiate the effort you do. Just waiting for CCP to answer mine again to be sure. ---
**Author:** ![Diemos\_Hiaraki](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diemos_hiaraki/32/97833_2.png) [@Diemos\_Hiaraki](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diemos_Hiaraki)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 3:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/358 "2018-09-21T15:28:30Z")
Also since I’m an atheist do I get a ban for being anti-religious? Define ‘hate-mongering philosophies’ please from section 3 - You may not organize nor be a member of any corporation or group within EVE Online that is based on or advocates any anti-ethnic, anti-gay, anti-religious, racist, sexist or other hate-mongering philosophies ---
**Author:** ![anas\_moraished](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anas_moraished/32/135612_2.png) [@anas\_moraished](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/anas_moraished)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 3:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/359 "2018-09-21T15:31:00Z")
Good this came in my mind. Some times ppl spam local with Draw via letters that shape men or women tool or nudity. So how is that being dealt with ? ---
**Author:** ![CCP\_Guard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ccp_guard/32/16499_2.png) [@CCP\_Guard](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/CCP_Guard)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 3:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/360 "2018-09-21T15:37:59Z")
Online stalking refers to out of game behavior. Intentionally fake reports or forged evidence are obviously not taken lightly and we won’t act on evidence we’re not sure about. ---
**Author:** ![Furoth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/furoth/32/300078_2.png) [@Furoth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Furoth)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 3:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/361 "2018-09-21T15:38:52Z")
> [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > Real life examples to clarify. The examples do not clarify what ‘hate speech’ is and why it should be stopped. I’m starting to understand how you get into so many fights, you live in a lousy area and you don’t actually listen to people. You can fight the whole world and spend the rest of your life in the hospital and I’m still going to sit here wondering what you think hate speech is and why your using it to pick fights with everyone in your neighborhood. ---
**Author:** ![Ima\_Wreckyou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ima_wreckyou/32/235531_2.png) [@Ima\_Wreckyou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ima_Wreckyou)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 3:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/362 "2018-09-21T15:41:28Z")
> [@Ho\_Ma\_Fan](#): > > I think you know all about the “mechanics” People are upset about all sorts if things in games. You really have to be more specific. EVE is a full loot PvP sandbox, that is not a game everyone feels comfortable with. On the other hand it is extremely easy to avoid unwanted combat and figuring that out is part of the game as well, or you can always ask someone. I don’t see why “certain game mechanics” are cultivating something. It’s just a game you know and some people gloat wherever with whatever and whenever they win or not lose and some don’t. It really has nothing to do with any game mechanics. ---
**Author:** ![CCP\_Guard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ccp_guard/32/16499_2.png) [@CCP\_Guard](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/CCP_Guard)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 3:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/363 "2018-09-21T15:45:55Z")
We’ve always had a clause in the ToS about not dragging real life politics or religion into the game. Obviously it’s not designed to come down like a ton of bricks as soon as people start discussing these things, but if people are weaponizing real life stuff or cultural fault lines or just being obsessive and obnoxious about these things, then they might get a message from us. ---
**Author:** ![BalticBeast14](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/balticbeast14/32/242877_2.png) [@BalticBeast14](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/BalticBeast14)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 3:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/364 "2018-09-21T15:46:01Z")
Does this policy imly that I can’t dirty talk with my beautiful alt? ---
**Author:** ![CCP\_Guard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ccp_guard/32/16499_2.png) [@CCP\_Guard](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/CCP_Guard)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 3:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/365 "2018-09-21T15:48:25Z")
That’s all good as long as your alt doesn’t file a ticket 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ho\_Ma\_Fan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ho_ma_fan/32/189383_2.png) [@Ho\_Ma\_Fan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ho_Ma_Fan)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 3:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/366 "2018-09-21T15:49:55Z")
I simply stated my observations… there has been a ton of Forum dialogue on this… And yes, I have for over 10 years done my best (mostly successful) to avoid unwanted combat… My personal policy is that win or lose, I NEVER communicate, period. Please understand that I love & hate Eve… sometimes it’s like staring at an open sore - and I make every attempt to play it contrary to the way CCP set it up: a place where YOU can spoil someone else’s, a RL person’s, day… I guess the gloating, giggling collection of tears is up to the individual… Now the new rules, new owners; let’s see. I love it 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 3:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/367 "2018-09-21T15:57:04Z")
> [@Diemos\_Hiaraki](#): > > Can someone define for me what hate speech is? As far as I can tell it’s just disagreeing with a political opinion that happens to be in fashion. Buzzwords might make you look good in the eyes of polygon and it’s ilk, but in my opinion your loyal players deserve a policy that is clear and concise. So was this an honest question or did you just ask to provide your own answer? If honest, let me try. Hate speech is the act of using language as a weapon to decisively harm other people (an individual or group) based on things about them that they could never change (skin color, sex, height, weight, place of birth, etc.) and/or that alone have absolutely no negative influence on you (their gender, their job, their belief or non-belief in some gods, their clothing). Harm in this context means to declare them less worthy, threaten or incite violence against them, aggressively trying to push your agenda onto them by declaring them “wrong” for what they can’t change or what is not your business, as it doesn’t effect your personal freedom in a single way. Examples, for which I think are not hate speech: “You’re dumb”. “I don’t like you”. “I don’t believe in your stupid god. I think you are making this up.” “I don’t care how you define yourself. I think it’s contradictious, but also it’s none of my business.” > [@Furoth](#): > > I’m starting to understand how you get into so many fights, you live in a lousy area and you don’t actually listen to people. You can fight the whole world and spend the rest of your life in the hospital and I’m still going to sit here wondering what you think hate speech is and why your using it to pick fights with everyone in your neighborhood. I tried to answer your question about hate speech above. About the fights. Well, as a citizen of my country I enjoy the freedom that comes with democracy and the relative safety, culture, science, mutual respect, humor and all those other enjoyable things that can happen between humans. Since that freedom for everyone, the safety and the mutual respect are sometimes under threat by people who enjoy these very same traits but think they should deny others the same courtesy, one has to step in. The normal thing to do, if time allows it, is to call the police. But it is also important that people mutually show each other that we can rely on each other when push comes to shove. The fights I could not avoid were all because of this. I’m happy for every fight that I avoided by showing strength, but even more by not being alone in stepping in. Also for the ones where reasoning actually worked. I’d dare to say that I got a relatively good gut feeling for when someone just needs a non-frightened, calm person to talk to and when someone is agitated because they want to be agitated and looking for a victim. Those types, yeah. They can’t be allowed to have their way and if the police is not near-by, it’s better to step in. Sometimes it just needs the first step and many bystanders will join you. The clearer and earlier you set a framework against malicious intent, the better it works and the less people fall victim to threats. The easier it is also for people to realize that the way of hating random others for things that went wrong in their own life, is not only wrong, but it is also not a solution to anything. It gives people a chance to see that mutual respect is kind of cool actually and it kind of works, providing us safety and the liberty to do all the amazing things that we can do. ---
**Author:** ![Furoth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/furoth/32/300078_2.png) [@Furoth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Furoth)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 4:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/368 "2018-09-21T16:03:21Z")
> [@CCP\_Guard](#): > > We’ve always had a clause in the ToS about not dragging real life politics or religion into the game. Obviously it’s not designed to come down like a ton of bricks as soon as people start discussing these things, but if people are weaponizing real life stuff or cultural fault lines or just being obsessive and obnoxious about these things, then they might get a message from us. That leaves so much less room for interpretation. Your not against some idle chat, your against using the game as a platform for an agenda. I’m so on board with that. Thanks. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861.md?page=17) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861.md?page=19)