# Policy Update - Real Life Threats & Harassment **URL:** \ **Category:** Announcements\ **Tags:** feedback, official\ **Created:** [September 20, 2018, 3:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861 "2018-09-20T15:58:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![Ho\_Ma\_Fan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ho_ma_fan/32/189383_2.png) [@Ho\_Ma\_Fan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ho_Ma_Fan)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 7:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/409 "2018-09-21T19:57:21Z")
First of all, LOVE your post! You know I get it… they’re Icelandic… they want to be Vikings… Vikings did some cool sh\*t but who did they like to terrorize? - defenseless Irish monks - defenseless coastal villages of farmers & fishermen… See where the theme comes from? Harden the F#ck up, right… ---
**Author:** ![Old\_Pervert](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/old_pervert/32/149708_2.png) [@Old\_Pervert](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Old_Pervert)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 8:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/410 "2018-09-21T20:09:20Z")
> [@Ho\_Ma\_Fan](#): > > Vikings did some cool sh\*t but who did they like to terrorize? You’re apparently forgetting the part where they conqured all of England in 1013…? > **[Viking Age | England](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viking_Age#England)** > > According to the Anglo-Saxon Chronicles, Viking raiders struck England in 793 and raided Lindisfarne, the monastery that held Saint Cuthbert's relics, killing the monks and capturing the valuables. The raid marked the beginning of the "Viking Age of Invasion". Great but sporadic violence continued on England's northern and eastern shores, with raids continuing on a small scale across coastal England. While the initial raiding groups were small, a great amount of planning is believed to have been ... Monks, farmers, and fishermen were gateway drugs to real power. ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 8:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/411 "2018-09-21T20:16:39Z")
> [@Furoth](#): > > Recently in Canada there were 3 mosques that were exposed in the news for calling for the death of the Jewish. The only reason they are still there is because Canada’s charter of rights does not have laws against being a dumbass or having dumbass ideas. Hm not good. In my country (Germany), the individuals who said it could be and should be persecuted under our law that prohibits incitement of hateful violence. I assume it was some kind of religious leader and those shouldn’t get a free pass. The followers who listened and may silently support the message, could not be persecuted and also shouldn’t be. Some of them should probably be watched, if they show signs of acting out on their ideas. If you allow I’ll take this small minority within the larger frame of “muslims” (they are so different in their beliefs, that it is hard to press them into one group really, even for someone anti-religious like myself), who have this batsh\*t crazy idea in their head that they should and could force their understanding of some old fairy tales onto mankind, as an example. As far as I know there are again several subdivions, like wahabites and others, but they’re more or less equally stupid. Here we can pretty much see the difference between thought and speech, and how they interact. Without speech or written word by some leader, it is highly unlikely that most of the harm they’d done would have occured. The individuals acting out the gruesome attacks have in any cases known to me always been linked to specific preachers, all of whom have been said to call for exactly the kind of things you’ve mentioned happened in Canada. Aforementioned heinous acts don’t happen out of the blue. The individuals may or may not have had specific experiences in their life that led them into thinking about it. This seems even still somewhat normal, as assumed or real injustice against you, can regularly trigger thougts of violent reply to make it undone. Now most people either forget about it or find that this doesn’t solve the issue, but if they meet someone, say a preacher, who continously encourages their hatred, fuels it, fills it with ideas of how heroic it would be to cowardly murder people and so on, they get closer and closer to acting it out. That’s why, for me, it seems necessary to show a hard edge against those who incite hate. In the specific case it would have meant to arrest and prosecute the imams. A side effect of being strict about this basic framework which provides safety and a functioning society, could also be less distrust and tensions between several “groups” of people. The inciters of hate are usually the small minority, but they try to force the majorities into their logic. Specifically for the religious fundamentalists I’ve mentioned, it has been said to be part of the strategy to incite racism against muslims so that for instance more muslims join their heinous cause, after experiencing grave injustices by non-muslims based on their religion alone. And then everyone who uses such incidents as a “proof” for how “bad” muslims are, just support the agenda of the fundamentalists. Hatespeech fulfills a fundamental role for all of those who want to bring our societies to their knees. Be it racists, religious fundamentalists or others: not the act of thinking irrationally, but writing / saying it out loud leads to an escalation. So yeah, stupidity is infinite and that’s okay. We are always going to be stupid and limited. But inciting hatred and violence is not born out of being less intellectually capable, it comes from being too weak and to cowardly to be better than that. ---
**Author:** ![Ho\_Ma\_Fan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ho_ma_fan/32/189383_2.png) [@Ho\_Ma\_Fan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ho_Ma_Fan)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 8:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/412 "2018-09-21T20:18:01Z")
you’re reading it all wrong… they never conquered England - as did Willian the Conqueror they raided monasteries and coastal villages and were repulsed readily by real armies ---
**Author:** ![Ima\_Wreckyou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ima_wreckyou/32/235531_2.png) [@Ima\_Wreckyou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ima_Wreckyou)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 8:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/413 "2018-09-21T20:25:12Z")
> [@See\_See\_Please](#): > > I didnt even actually say anything. You can call it a “proactive petition” if you like. > > Since it will be easier than responding to anyone who has specific questions, here is a pastebin of the entire ticket from start to finish. > [Capsuleer June 11, 2018 00:07Hello,I was wondering if the word ■■■■■" is c - Pastebin.com](https://pastebin.com/0jWRTHsx) Yeah, exactly as expected. You tried to get them to say that you can use that word because it’s in their video and instead of falling for it they did the sensible thing of telling you that they will judge the offense based on the context, which is how it actually should be. It also shows that it is complete BS what you said before when stating that HTFU will get you banned when all you tried to do was getting a free pass on using the f word in whatever context you like. I have heard a lot of wild claims about CCP saying strange things in tickets or whatever over the years and EVERY TIME when they got posted it turned out that they where completely sensible while the player was totally pedantic, rude or worse. And so it proved here. Good job shooting yourself in the foot. 👍 ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 8:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/414 "2018-09-21T20:26:21Z")
> [@Rexxar\_Santaro](#): > > but > > - Verbal abuse > - Abusive messaging > - Online stalking > - Social Media stalking > - Hate speech > > are soooo vague. Step by step. Hate speech: please look up to the definition I delivered further up in the thread. If you’re not happy with it, please respond accordingly and make a different proposal. Online/Social Media stalking: this has already been clarified as to stalking that happens outside of the game in relation to the real person behind the character. Abusive messaging: already punishable before. If a player blocks you because they don’t want to talk to you, you have to accept it. If you continously find ways, create alts or whatnot to keep on messaging them, it’s not accepted. No player should be able to force others to listen to them. Verbal abuse: this is a tough nut, but as CCP Falcon hinted in this thread, I think we are talking about extreme cases here. A friendly “go f\*ck yourself” is totally acceptable and part of the culture here. It’s not even an insult, because it says nothing about the person. I think you already know the difference between “Verbal abuse” and a few “bad” words. There is lots of space in between and I think you can be assured that if you don’t constantly try to push the limits, you’ll not have to fear anything. ---
**Author:** ![Ima\_Wreckyou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ima_wreckyou/32/235531_2.png) [@Ima\_Wreckyou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ima_Wreckyou)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 8:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/415 "2018-09-21T20:26:30Z")
> [@Predvodnica\_LSG](#): > > Look new owners made CCP to turn for 180 in just few days !!! Post #401 and you still don’t understand what’s going on. Way to go ---
**Author:** ![Ima\_Wreckyou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ima_wreckyou/32/235531_2.png) [@Ima\_Wreckyou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ima_Wreckyou)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 8:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/416 "2018-09-21T20:29:04Z")
> [@zluq\_zabaa](#): > > Verbal abuse: this is a tough nut Lol, go to minerbumping and click on any of the “miner grab bag” blog posts to get some real world examples. ---
**Author:** ![See\_See\_Please](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/see_see_please/32/97716_2.png) [@See\_See\_Please](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/See_See_Please)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 8:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/417 "2018-09-21T20:32:54Z")
Well, the word “■■■■” is either offensive or it is not. It is either vulgar or not. The context is literally irrelevant. As an aside, how much context or in what context must you use a traditionally offensive or vulgar word in for it to no longer be considered offensive or vulgar? ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 8:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/418 "2018-09-21T20:38:02Z")
> [@Ima\_Wreckyou](#): > > Lol, go to minerbumping and click on any of the “miner grab bag” blog posts to get some real world examples. Yeah I’ve read through some of these before, but I’ve also had quite some of my own experiences when it came to real life threats or extremely harsh language getting thrown at me. From people threatening to find and kill me and my family in real life (one also told me that he is going to murder and rape my kids), to just a bit of stabbing, to truly things that were supposed to be insults but turned out to be a lesson in the sickness of some peoples mind. Seriously, there seem to be some guys who spend all day with 3 screens: 1 for EVE, 1 for really weird porn, 1 for some place to fuel their hate. This mixed together, ugh. ---
**Author:** ![Ima\_Wreckyou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ima_wreckyou/32/235531_2.png) [@Ima\_Wreckyou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ima_Wreckyou)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 8:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/419 "2018-09-21T20:38:47Z")
> [@See\_See\_Please](#): > > Well, the word “■■■■” is either offensive or it is not. It is either vulgar or not. The context is literally irrelevant. You can’t be serious? The context is absolutely relevant. It is a word that is so common in American English that we can probably say that the context is the ONLY relevant thing about the word. Stop your space lawyering. Just use some common sense if you have some… ---
**Author:** ![See\_See\_Please](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/see_see_please/32/97716_2.png) [@See\_See\_Please](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/See_See_Please)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 8:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/420 "2018-09-21T20:38:50Z")
RIP in game browser. You used to be able to do all three right from the eve client! ---
**Author:** ![See\_See\_Please](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/see_see_please/32/97716_2.png) [@See\_See\_Please](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/See_See_Please)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 8:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/421 "2018-09-21T20:41:52Z")
Since when did the FCC care about the context of the usage of the word “■■■■”? The context is irrelevant and the word is considered vulgar. According to PEGI and ERSB, vulgar words are not allowed. The context is not relevant if the word itself is prohibited by another clause. ---
**Author:** ![Ima\_Wreckyou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ima_wreckyou/32/235531_2.png) [@Ima\_Wreckyou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ima_Wreckyou)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 8:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/422 "2018-09-21T20:46:22Z")
Yeah ok, it seems we are hitting a road block here. If you are incapable of recognizing how the same word may be offensive in one context and not in another then maybe just don’t use it. ---
**Author:** ![See\_See\_Please](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/see_see_please/32/97716_2.png) [@See\_See\_Please](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/See_See_Please)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 8:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/423 "2018-09-21T20:48:08Z")
Oh, i totally get it, the problem is that the rules are written in a manner that says “dont use vulgar language” and then they clarify that policy by stating “we will review the context”. If the word is vulgar and therefore prohibited, then the context of its usage is not relevant as its mere usage is already a violation. If you cannot understand the complexity and nuance in the rules, then yes, i would say we have reached an impasse. offensive =/= vulgar ---
**Author:** ![See\_See\_Please](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/see_see_please/32/97716_2.png) [@See\_See\_Please](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/See_See_Please)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 8:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/424 "2018-09-21T20:50:11Z")
as another aside, lets take an example lets say you tell me “im going to ■■■■ your mother” Im not really offended that you said the word “■■■■”, im more enraged over the insinuation of sexual intercourse with my dear mother. The fact that you chose to say “■■■■” instead of “make sweet, sweet love to” doesnt make the statement more or less offensive. it does, in fact though, make the statement less vulgar. ---
**Author:** ![Ima\_Wreckyou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ima_wreckyou/32/235531_2.png) [@Ima\_Wreckyou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ima_Wreckyou)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 8:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/425 "2018-09-21T20:52:42Z")
Now if you think a bit more about that maybe you will even discover why context matters ---
**Author:** ![zluq\_zabaa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zluq_zabaa/32/19011_2.png) [@zluq\_zabaa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/zluq_zabaa)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 8:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/426 "2018-09-21T20:53:37Z")
I agree, classic and good reaction from CCP staff. But also… did this guy just post private conversation between himself and GM? I may not be up to date with the rules around that, but as far as I remember that used to be reason for the banhammer. If so, he should probably take that down asap. p.s. I have a few of the most crazy cases of verbal abuse saved, just not sure if I can post it here or not. > [@See\_See\_Please](#): > > Oh, i totally get it, the problem is that the rules are written in a manner that says “dont use vulgar language” and then they clarify that policy by stating “we will review the context”. Exactly and with the very same words I can form a totally innocent, friendly, sunshine-happy sentence or show you the abyss of the human mind. There are words that are not used in any other but a vulgar context, but “fu\*ck” is not one of them. It can be, but it depends on the context. Why is that so hard to understand? > [@See\_See\_Please](#): > > as another aside, lets take an example > lets say you tell me “im going to ■■■■ your mother” > Im not really offended that you said the word “■■■■”, im more enraged over the insinuation of sexual intercourse with my dear mother. The fact that you chose to say “■■■■” instead of “make sweet, sweet love to” doesnt make the statement more or less offensive. Yes and that’s how you prove your own former statement wrong. If someone tells you “Fu\*ck, you are a great pilot”, the context of that is obviously positive. ---
**Author:** ![See\_See\_Please](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/see_see_please/32/97716_2.png) [@See\_See\_Please](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/See_See_Please)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 8:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/427 "2018-09-21T20:53:54Z")
If vulgar language is prohibited, please tell me what context you could use a vulgar word in which would magically make it not vulgar ---
**Author:** ![Ima\_Wreckyou](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ima_wreckyou/32/235531_2.png) [@Ima\_Wreckyou](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ima_Wreckyou)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2018, 8:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/428 "2018-09-21T20:55:06Z")
I totally ■■■■■■ up explaining this to you [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861.md?page=20) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861.md?page=22)