# Policy Update - Real Life Threats & Harassment **URL:** \ **Category:** Announcements\ **Tags:** feedback, official\ **Created:** [September 20, 2018, 3:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861 "2018-09-20T15:58:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 32
**Author:** ![Aequitae](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aequitae/32/236714_2.png) [@Aequitae](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aequitae)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 11:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/630 "2018-09-22T23:18:16Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > > [@Mingja](#): > > > > How can you not see that as a problem? > > I dont see that as a problem. I think it is CCP problem. If I would be doing something wrong, then it would start to be also my problem. If I dont think I do something wrong, CCP is here to remind me what I can do on forum or in game. It is your problem because of the fact that under these rules ANYTHING you do, can be reported for harassment and lead to a ban. Even normal, basic game interactions such as taunting banter or killing someone who wronged you inside the game. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 11:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/631 "2018-09-22T23:19:30Z")
> [@Aequitae](#): > > ANYTHING you do, can be reported for harassment and lead to a ban. Anything could be reported also with some strict rules. CCP job is to deal with it anyway. Not my problem. ---
**Author:** ![Aequitae](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aequitae/32/236714_2.png) [@Aequitae](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aequitae)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 11:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/632 "2018-09-22T23:21:11Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > > [@Aequitae](#): > > > > ANYTHING you do, can be reported for harassment and lead to a ban. > > Anything could be reported also with some strict rules. > > CCP job is to deal with it anyway. > > Not my problem. It isn’t your problem until you have to deal with it, or your friends get banned over nothing. I see a lot of abuse being possible, especially against gankers. That is what I am against. I believe in-game actions should to a degree be exempt from parts of these rules. ---
**Author:** ![Eve\_Griefer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/eve_griefer/32/277788_2.png) [@Eve\_Griefer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Eve_Griefer)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 11:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/633 "2018-09-22T23:21:53Z")
> [@Mingja](#): > > I mean, I’ve elaborated on my personal problem a lot in this thread. Within the confines of the current rules, everything you say or do could potentially be a bannable offense because someone considers something a “microagression” and because of the UN’s definition of racism, any microagression could be racist and thus, bannable. I can see what your concern is. Microaggressions are a slippery concept and one I’m not comfortable with. In an international arena such as this, it would be too easy to say something innocently which an overly sensitive person could construe as an attack. ---
**Author:** ![Mingja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mingja/32/50857_2.png) [@Mingja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mingja)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 11:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/634 "2018-09-22T23:22:12Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > Anything could be reported also with some strict rules. But with strict rules, not everything can lead to a ban. That’s the difference. ---
**Author:** ![Mingja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mingja/32/50857_2.png) [@Mingja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mingja)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 11:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/635 "2018-09-22T23:31:13Z")
> [@Eve\_Griefer](#): > > I can see what your concern is. Microaggressions are a slippery concept and one I’m not comfortable with. In an international arena such as this, it would be too easy to say something innocently which an overly sensitive person could construe as an attack. Yes, that’s why I asked for a clearification in the nicest possible way. It was greeted with “we don’t do that, it’s pedantic and rules lawyering”. I for one am legitimately concerned over using the chat actively because of this I just asked someone in local if he wants to have mining boosts and I am concerned that he might feel offended. After all, I’ve implied he isn’t “skilled enough to use them himself” or that he is a “lesser miner because I mine more”. Yes, this is possible racism if he is anything but a straight white male (because I am, lowest of the lowest on the ‘social groups’ victim scoreboard) according to the vague definitions CCP has given. Yes, I consider that entire concept detrimental and infantile, but it’s the way the world works nowadays. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 11:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/636 "2018-09-22T23:31:59Z")
> [@Mingja](#): > > But with strict rules, not everything can lead to a ban. That’s the difference. I think nothing will change… 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![Mingja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mingja/32/50857_2.png) [@Mingja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mingja)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 11:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/637 "2018-09-22T23:33:13Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > I think nothing will change… I would be thrilled if CCP would confirm that. It would alleviate all my worries. CCP just denies to do that. Thus, I think it’s not entirely unreasonable to be concerned. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Ronuken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/steve_ronuken/32/373894_2.png) [@Steve\_Ronuken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Steve_Ronuken)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 11:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/638 "2018-09-22T23:38:50Z")
Thing is, It’s not the ‘overly sensitive’ person who judges if it’s harassment or not. It’s the CCP GMs. _Strict_ rules lead to people dancing around the line. Every damn time. Rules lawyering about what they’re doing. You’re not going to get a strict list of “If you do this, you’ll get banned, if not, you won’t be.” That’s not going to happen. Expecting such is at best naive. Or quite probably disingenuous. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 11:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/639 "2018-09-22T23:39:47Z")
CCP will not make rules that would tie their hands in dealing with any dumpster fire. ---
**Author:** ![Makavi\_Madeveda](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/makavi_madeveda/32/495789_2.png) [@Makavi\_Madeveda](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Makavi_Madeveda)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 11:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/640 "2018-09-22T23:41:13Z")
CCP will not make rules that would prevent them using loopholes to keep their friends safe from those same rules. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 11:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/641 "2018-09-22T23:43:02Z")
> [@OR-6\_Ashley\_Frost](#): > > Have you ever reported anyone No. I’m not bothered by what others write in a video game chat. If what they wrote, affected someone else then I’d do something, but so far that’s never been the case. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 11:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/642 "2018-09-22T23:47:34Z")
Your proposed scenario there is and always has been harassment. That is nothing new. If someone really takes steps to get away like moving across space, changing Corp etc perpetually targeting them is harassment. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 11:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/643 "2018-09-22T23:48:59Z")
There is no justice in the world. CCP is no exception. ---
**Author:** ![Mingja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mingja/32/50857_2.png) [@Mingja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mingja)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 11:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/644 "2018-09-22T23:54:32Z")
> [@Steve\_Ronuken](#): > > Thing is, It’s not the ‘overly sensitive’ person who judges if it’s harassment or not. It’s the CCP GMs. Yes, and for all I know, CCP might as well be overly sensitive now. Do you think it’s “Rules Lawyering” if you ask if this is the case or not? “Does CCP share concerns in regards to overly sensitive persons or not” would be a damn good question to answer. > [@Steve\_Ronuken](#): > > You’re not going to get a strict list of “If you do this, you’ll get banned, if not, you won’t be.” I don’t expect that. I didn’t expected it to begin with (I do know how GM’s act and what gaming companies will do or not, probably as good as any other GM), but it should be aknowledged that players have legitimate concerns over CCP’s extremely vague rules and some of them demand a better (please do not mistake this for “comprehensive” again) explanation. Is it so hard to understand that the game used to be a harsh place and players want to know if this is still the case? Is it still a “you won’t get someone banned over trivial stuff and HTFU until stuff get’s really bad” or “anything you say could be offensive”? CCP has not confirmed nor denied any of that and that is the problem, yet somehow this is seen as “rules lawyering”. Sharing your philosophy is in no way equivalent to “elaborate on every single question” and it’s CCP philosophy that is desperately needed. > [@Wander\_Prian](#): > > The rules are broad to stop people from trying to slip through loopholes. I think we can all agree on that. They need to be broad, but right now, they are just too broad. That is the criticism. EDIT: Disregard this please, because of: [Policy Update - Real Life Threats & Harassment - #316 by CCP\_Guard](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/316) ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 11:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/645 "2018-09-22T23:56:44Z")
Because depending on context the same thing can be trivial or serious. And CCP have already said in this thread you won’t get instant banned for anything but the worst behaviour. ---
**Author:** ![Aequitae](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aequitae/32/236714_2.png) [@Aequitae](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aequitae)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2018, 11:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/646 "2018-09-22T23:57:08Z")
> [@Steve\_Ronuken](#): > > Thing is, It’s not the ‘overly sensitive’ person who judges if it’s harassment or not. It’s the CCP GMs. > > _Strict_ rules lead to people dancing around the line. Every damn time. Rules lawyering about what they’re doing. > > You’re not going to get a strict list of “If you do this, you’ll get banned, if not, you won’t be.” That’s not going to happen. Expecting such is at best naive. Or quite probably disingenuous. And right now, the rules are so broad that effectively ANYTHING can fall under it. That is equally bad. ---
**Author:** ![Wander\_Prian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wander_prian/32/394208_2.png) [@Wander\_Prian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wander_Prian)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2018, 12:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/647 "2018-09-23T00:03:28Z")
Because CCP doesn’t want to be updating their rules every time someone finds a new way to harass people or when language changes. The rules are broad to stop people from trying to slip through loopholes. The broad rules also allow the GM’s and CCP to use their discretion on what is allowed and what is not. All of this always depends on the situation, which strict rules would make much harder to take into consideration. ---
**Author:** ![Mingja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mingja/32/50857_2.png) [@Mingja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mingja)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2018, 12:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/648 "2018-09-23T00:12:40Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > Because depending on context the same thing can be trivial or serious. That is not true though unless you subscribe to a (very promintent) radical ideology which many people do not. That is literally the entire point. Does CCP think anything can be offensive? Do they subscribe to the same ideology or not. ---
**Author:** ![Wander\_Prian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wander_prian/32/394208_2.png) [@Wander\_Prian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wander_Prian)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2018, 12:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861/649 "2018-09-23T00:13:10Z")
> [@Mingja](#): > > I think we can all agree on that. They need to be broad, but right now, they are just too broad. That is the criticism. They are as broad as is required to take into account loop-holes,rules-lawyering,the evolution of language and the ingenuity of Eve-players. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861.md?page=31) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/policy-update-real-life-threats-harassment/107861.md?page=33)