# Potential Fix for WHers for the 500mn HIC **URL:** \ **Category:** Assembly Hall\ **Created:** [September 17, 2018, 7:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/potential-fix-for-whers-for-the-500mn-hic/107020 "2018-09-17T19:51:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Viktor\_Pvolman](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/viktor_pvolman/32/434579_2.png) [@Viktor\_Pvolman](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Viktor_Pvolman)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 9:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/potential-fix-for-whers-for-the-500mn-hic/107020/102 "2018-09-17T21:03:11Z")
do try and realize brisc is trying to do damage control here as best he can, and this fix is the best I’ve heard so far. Ideally the porpoise’s mass would be reduced even further to decrease the chance of getting rolled out, but halving it already gives very good odds of not getting rolled out ---
**Author:** ![Maqari\_Kinraysuwa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/maqari_kinraysuwa/32/88071_2.png) [@Maqari\_Kinraysuwa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Maqari_Kinraysuwa)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 9:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/potential-fix-for-whers-for-the-500mn-hic/107020/103 "2018-09-17T21:03:29Z")
Have you ever thrown a hotdog down a hallway? ---
**Author:** ![Reyni\_Allas-Rui](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/reyni_allas-rui/32/97117_2.png) [@Reyni\_Allas-Rui](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Reyni_Allas-Rui)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 9:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/potential-fix-for-whers-for-the-500mn-hic/107020/104 "2018-09-17T21:03:48Z")
It fixes absolutely nothing, you have to have absolutely no knowledge of the issue to say something like that. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 9:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/potential-fix-for-whers-for-the-500mn-hic/107020/105 "2018-09-17T21:03:52Z")
> [@Sticky\_Mess](#): > > Brisc is a Goon Uh… ![brisc](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/2/3/23f7ac756aefba5089fab31dbe8396b94b8a8cd4.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Harlan\_Adoudel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/harlan_adoudel/32/93254_2.png) [@Harlan\_Adoudel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Harlan_Adoudel)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 9:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/potential-fix-for-whers-for-the-500mn-hic/107020/106 "2018-09-17T21:04:29Z")
The primary problem is not with rolling frigate sized wormholes. I appreciate the proposal for a fix for that issue, but that is not what has the community up in arms. The problem is rolling critical-mass wormholes. Wormholes where the amount of mass left is unknown, and potentially extremely small. A 1Gg porpoise still weighs 10-13x as much as a rolling HIC, with significantly lower hot mass. A Higgsed 1Gg porpoise weighs 20-25x as much, with a comparable hot mass. Either way, the odds of getting rolled out go up significantly. I appreciate that the CSM is taking our complaints seriously and thinking about how to solve the problem. I think this is the best solution that I’ve seen from a CSM member thus far. I still think it’s a bad deal for wormholers, and that if it’s implemented we will probably never (or at least not for a year+) get a proper fix to the problem at hand. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 9:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/potential-fix-for-whers-for-the-500mn-hic/107020/107 "2018-09-17T21:04:42Z")
> [@Reyni\_Allas-Rui](#): > > Yank it, its so bad, its like if anoms spawned 10 times slower in nullsec I don’t think that would be that bad, honestly. But that’s another argument. ---
**Author:** ![Reyni\_Allas-Rui](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/reyni_allas-rui/32/97117_2.png) [@Reyni\_Allas-Rui](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Reyni_Allas-Rui)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 9:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/potential-fix-for-whers-for-the-500mn-hic/107020/108 "2018-09-17T21:06:53Z")
It is though, if I have to take up to 60 jumps in a character every 20 whs I roll because you allow ccp to ■■■■ the bed this badly, or we start leaving crit connections up and just ■■■■ ourselves even harder. But its really nice to see you still dont even grasp the issues and its so fun knowing CCP are backstabbing and no one in the CSM or at CCP knows how this game works besides nullsec blobs. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 9:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/potential-fix-for-whers-for-the-500mn-hic/107020/109 "2018-09-17T21:07:33Z")
> [@Wazaler](#): > > This sounds like the decision has already been made by CCP and now we are just trying to run damage control after the house has already burnt down. It’s idiotic and if someone at CCP is reading this, understand that this is no way for a process to work. You don’t solve problems by creating more problems. The decision was made, but it can always be changed. Given the level of pushback so far, I’d be surprised if they don’t push it back again. But that would mean this is something like the third time they’ve proposed fixing this issue and then backed off. Sometimes you burn your ships so there’s no going back and they have to move forward with a fix. ---
**Author:** ![Harlan\_Adoudel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/harlan_adoudel/32/93254_2.png) [@Harlan\_Adoudel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Harlan_Adoudel)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 9:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/potential-fix-for-whers-for-the-500mn-hic/107020/110 "2018-09-17T21:09:01Z")
That’s simply not true. The cold (all bubbles up, no prop mod on) mass of a rolling HIC is \< .1 Gg. The cold mass of a higgsed porpoise is 2Gg, as proposed. That is over 20x larger, and that is a direct 20x increase in the odds of getting rolled out. ---
**Author:** ![Dominous\_Nolen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dominous_nolen/32/393106_2.png) [@Dominous\_Nolen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dominous_Nolen)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 9:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/potential-fix-for-whers-for-the-500mn-hic/107020/111 "2018-09-17T21:09:51Z")
I’m just gonna leave this here: > ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 9:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/potential-fix-for-whers-for-the-500mn-hic/107020/112 "2018-09-17T21:10:05Z")
> [@Imustbecomfused](#): > > ironic. do you think there was a difference in the last 50 years of our political model, sure we had different presidents but being our entire system is broken, like Eve , does it really matter what nutjob is president or csm? It absolutely matters who your representatives and administrators are. Every administration in the US can point to something they did and say ‘do you think my opponent would have done this?’ Usually that includes Supreme Court appointees, who are there for life. It also matters who is on the CSM, because if you have people who don’t have the first clue about how the dynamics play out in the game, you get CCP getting bad advice. CCP doesn’t know how the masses of players do things, because even if they have all the data, they don’t have the _why_ of it. They can’t be in everyone’s comms. You can’t reconstruct ‘what were they trying to do here?’ from ‘this fleet blew up’. Add to that, bad CSMs will just be in it for their own bloc. Good ones will listen to the players who know things they don’t know. And even if they can’t say ‘hey, CCP said X, how do you feel about it?’ because of the NDA, they can move more obliquely to get that info out of people. Personally, I think Brisc’s doing a good job as a CSM member: he’s here, he’s listening, he’s trying to find solutions. He’s offering suggestions to CCP based on those things. It absolutely matters. ---
**Author:** ![teddy\_Gbyc](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teddy_gbyc/32/389448_2.png) [@teddy\_Gbyc](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/teddy_Gbyc)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 9:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/potential-fix-for-whers-for-the-500mn-hic/107020/113 "2018-09-17T21:10:10Z")
or they could make a focus group with null seccers and wormholers to help them hash out the changes instead of making ham fisted decisions ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 9:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/potential-fix-for-whers-for-the-500mn-hic/107020/114 "2018-09-17T21:10:20Z")
> [@Satori\_Sartori](#): > > Is the implication that I’m trolling or something by saying that removal of HIC rolling (or valid alternative that does not infringe on existing SP setups) will be a huge problem? I think your unwillingness to recognize that this is a legitimate issue that folks have been asking for a fix for for a long time (lurch HICs) and your casual throw away line about banning people and hiring devs that are decent does nothing to help move this dialogue along. It’s pointless. You want to complain about the fix, then help me find a solution. I can go to reddit for bad jokes. ---
**Author:** ![Reyni\_Allas-Rui](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/reyni_allas-rui/32/97117_2.png) [@Reyni\_Allas-Rui](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Reyni_Allas-Rui)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 9:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/potential-fix-for-whers-for-the-500mn-hic/107020/115 "2018-09-17T21:11:16Z")
Why would you need to go to reddit when you make threads here? ---
**Author:** ![Black\_Ambulance](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/black_ambulance/32/48290_2.png) [@Black\_Ambulance](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Black_Ambulance)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 9:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/potential-fix-for-whers-for-the-500mn-hic/107020/116 "2018-09-17T21:13:08Z")
> [@Suitonia](#): > > Changing the mass on a ship can be done easily, adding a brand new fitting restriction for a specific size of module or completely re-balancing the fitting stats of the 4 HICs is way more time consuming. So ? Plan the changes properly then !!! and do proper Changes. ■■■■■■■ up with Porpoise is what ? professional solution ? ---
**Author:** ![Harlan\_Adoudel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/harlan_adoudel/32/93254_2.png) [@Harlan\_Adoudel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Harlan_Adoudel)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 9:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/potential-fix-for-whers-for-the-500mn-hic/107020/117 "2018-09-17T21:13:59Z")
3m isk + the time to log out of my main and alts and log in the alpha + the time to get the alpha back into my home system later when we have a decent entrance. It’s not the isk, it’s the time. Time that we _can’t_ spend playing the game because we’re logged into an alpha character dealing with this ■■■■. ---
**Author:** ![Ron\_Jonsohn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ron_jonsohn/32/507784_2.png) [@Ron\_Jonsohn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ron_Jonsohn)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 9:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/potential-fix-for-whers-for-the-500mn-hic/107020/118 "2018-09-17T21:15:24Z")
Personal opinion; either causing a scramble effect on the HIC when bubbles are activated or disallowing 500MN MWDs entirely on HICs are my favourite solutions to the problem. The first option from my uninformed view, seems like it would be an easier change to make on CCP’s end having to only change one module type, rather than add an exemption to every HIC. Is this a viable solution or not? ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 9:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/potential-fix-for-whers-for-the-500mn-hic/107020/119 "2018-09-17T21:16:41Z")
> [@Reyni\_Allas-Rui](#): > > Why would you need to go to reddit when you make threads here? Memes are funnier over there. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 9:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/potential-fix-for-whers-for-the-500mn-hic/107020/120 "2018-09-17T21:17:50Z")
> [@Timm3h](#): > > I voted on two accounts > [@](#): > > If I wanted to participate in a popularity contest So which time were you full of crap here? Your vote matters. Your vote matters _more_ if you talk with other players and organize to vote for the same candidates. It does absolutely suck that CCP has a system in place that inevitably makes some people feel marginalized or under-represented. They also have a system in place that ensures every player can have their voices heard. That, by the way, is this one here. Giving feedback. If you think the CSM go and spend 2 weeks on a godforsaken rock in the middle of the Atlantic where everything costs 10-20x what it does in civilized parts of the world because it’s _fun_, you’re smoking crack. These are people who really do want to make the game better. They are not looking to screw people over. And they fly out into the middle of nowhere to spend 8-12h a day locked up in a conference room with a bunch of pushy, opinionated, socially-retarded _bastards_… AND the folks from CCP! It’s not a popularity contest. It’s an _organizational_ contest. Popularity means nothing if the people who like you can’t get their act together. ---
**Author:** ![Dontshoot\_Him](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dontshoot_him/32/66145_2.png) [@Dontshoot\_Him](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dontshoot_Him)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 9:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/potential-fix-for-whers-for-the-500mn-hic/107020/121 "2018-09-17T21:19:37Z")
ex-init member here init is very closely affiliated with the goons almost like they are married. soo calling you a goon is somewhat accurate like 😛 [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/potential-fix-for-whers-for-the-500mn-hic/107020.md?page=5) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/potential-fix-for-whers-for-the-500mn-hic/107020.md?page=7)