# Potential Fix for WHers for the 500mn HIC **URL:** \ **Category:** Assembly Hall\ **Created:** [September 17, 2018, 7:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/potential-fix-for-whers-for-the-500mn-hic/107020 "2018-09-17T19:51:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 9:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/potential-fix-for-whers-for-the-500mn-hic/107020/122 "2018-09-17T21:21:03Z")
> [@Satori\_Sartori](#): > > So what, you’re just gonna write ‘those wormholes are complaining like always, but screw them, do it anyway’ in your little report? No, he’s just gonna say something snarky when you can’t suggest a relatively simple solution (make it bannable) without getting obnoxious and insulting the devs, of which he is not one, and over whom he has no control. ---
**Author:** ![Timm3h](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/timm3h/32/145996_2.png) [@Timm3h](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Timm3h)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 9:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/potential-fix-for-whers-for-the-500mn-hic/107020/123 "2018-09-17T21:21:48Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > > [@Satori\_Sartori](#): > > > > Is the implication that I’m trolling or something by saying that removal of HIC rolling (or valid alternative that does not infringe on existing SP setups) will be a huge problem? > > I think your unwillingness to recognize that this is a legitimate issue that folks have been asking for a fix for for a long time (lurch HICs) and your casual throw away line about banning people and hiring devs that are decent does nothing to help move this dialogue along. It’s pointless. > > You want to complain about the fix, then help me find a solution. I can go to reddit for bad jokes. If you wanted jokes, just scroll all the way to the top. Comparing your idea to the actual QoL from HIC rolling mechanics is an actual laugh and a half, see attached picture. A genuine, safety first rolling devoter will go in with a higgs rig, as many bubbles as possible, and plates offlined to absolutely minimize the chance of getting rolled out on a crit wormhole threading pass. Do you see that number next to the word Mass? 2074kg. A **capsule** is 15.43 times more massive than this devoter full cold. On the way back you drop a depot, offline most of your bubbles, online all of your plates. Really simple. Nullsec CSM’s fix for this is a 2,000,000kg ship. Almost 964 times more massive than a full cold devoter. Epic. ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/d/1/d1e1c0603c5ab124af35f66ec198e8a5ebc0408b.png) ---
**Author:** ![Maqari\_Kinraysuwa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/maqari_kinraysuwa/32/88071_2.png) [@Maqari\_Kinraysuwa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Maqari_Kinraysuwa)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 9:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/potential-fix-for-whers-for-the-500mn-hic/107020/124 "2018-09-17T21:23:46Z")
It really makes you think. Maybe if I’m elected CSM, I’ll balance supers and rorqs. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 9:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/potential-fix-for-whers-for-the-500mn-hic/107020/125 "2018-09-17T21:24:19Z")
> [@Dontshoot\_Him](#): > > somewhat accurate like somewhat accurate like is similar to being almost correct. It’s still wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 9:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/potential-fix-for-whers-for-the-500mn-hic/107020/126 "2018-09-17T21:25:12Z")
No, the fix I suggested - which came from multiple conversations with WHers - was to cut the mass of the porpoise in half and use that instead. Which gets you close to where you were on a the high end while still being able to go through frigate sized holes. ---
**Author:** ![Satori\_Sartori](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/satori_sartori/32/315681_2.png) [@Satori\_Sartori](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Satori_Sartori)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 9:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/potential-fix-for-whers-for-the-500mn-hic/107020/127 "2018-09-17T21:26:37Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > I think your unwillingness to recognize that this is a legitimate issue I recognize it’s a legitimate issue, but what I think about lurch HICs does not matter. This does not undervalue my concern with how ruining rolling HICs is gonna completely disintegrate the quality of life in wormholes. As for my line about banning, this is fully in line with CCP’s established practices. I am not joking when I say I would rather see that than rolling HICs being ruined. Removing rolling HICs is that bad. It’s extremely upsetting that you’re dismissing disapproval of your (myopic and impractical) proposal as unconstructive. Proposals like that terrify me. I don’t want any solution like that because it doesn’t solve the problem (Porpoises cannot reduce their mass to the level of 5x bubbled HIC), and not only that, it’s supposed to make me train for something **I was already able to do and spent months training to be able to do it**. There’s just no reason to adopt changes with that much collateral damage. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 9:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/potential-fix-for-whers-for-the-500mn-hic/107020/128 "2018-09-17T21:26:42Z")
> [@Timm3h](#): > > Nullsec CSM’s fix for this is a 2,000,000kg ship. Almost 964 times more massive than a full cold devoter. Epic. ERMAGERD! Dude doesn’t know everything about stuff he doesn’t do, but he’s still trying to talk to people who _do_ that thing and find a solution! QUICK! **WE MUST PILE ON THE HATE AND MOCKERY!!** ---
**Author:** ![Maqari\_Kinraysuwa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/maqari_kinraysuwa/32/88071_2.png) [@Maqari\_Kinraysuwa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Maqari_Kinraysuwa)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 9:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/potential-fix-for-whers-for-the-500mn-hic/107020/129 "2018-09-17T21:27:13Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > No, the fix I suggested - which came from multiple conversations with WHers - was to cut the mass of the porpoise in half and use that instead. > > Which gets you close to where you were on a the high end while still being able to go through frigate sized holes. I’m really curious who suggested that absolute picobrain-tier idea. ---
**Author:** ![Khelar\_Udan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/khelar_udan/32/97133_2.png) [@Khelar\_Udan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Khelar_Udan)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 9:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/potential-fix-for-whers-for-the-500mn-hic/107020/130 "2018-09-17T21:29:26Z")
This isn’t local government I shouldn’t have to organize a campaign to elect someone to some imaginary space council so I can have my voice as a paying customer heard. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 9:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/potential-fix-for-whers-for-the-500mn-hic/107020/131 "2018-09-17T21:30:19Z")
> [@Satori\_Sartori](#): > > It’s extremely upsetting that you’re dismissing disapproval of your (myopic and impractical) proposal as unconstructive. It was unconstructive. Your only solution appears to be “don’t do anything.” I don’t think that’s an option. So if you want to propose something that you think is better than this compromise and doesn’t require them making a new ship or designing an entirely new system, I’m all ears. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 9:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/potential-fix-for-whers-for-the-500mn-hic/107020/132 "2018-09-17T21:31:01Z")
> [@Khelar\_Udan](#): > > This isn’t local government I shouldn’t have to organize a campaign to elect someone to some imaginary space council so I can have my voice as a paying customer heard. And when another paying customer disagrees with you? Who wins? ---
**Author:** ![Maqari\_Kinraysuwa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/maqari_kinraysuwa/32/88071_2.png) [@Maqari\_Kinraysuwa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Maqari_Kinraysuwa)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 9:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/potential-fix-for-whers-for-the-500mn-hic/107020/133 "2018-09-17T21:31:48Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > > [@Satori\_Sartori](#): > > > > It’s extremely upsetting that you’re dismissing disapproval of your (myopic and impractical) proposal as unconstructive. > > It was unconstructive. > > Your only solution appears to be “don’t do anything.” > > I don’t think that’s an option. So if you want to propose something that you think is better than this compromise and doesn’t require them making a new ship or designing an entirely new system, I’m all ears. Add a -80% mass, -95% velocity -100% range script for HIC bubbles, if CCP is truly so incapable of coding anything else. Rolling HICs don’t need to move when they have their bubbles up. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 9:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/potential-fix-for-whers-for-the-500mn-hic/107020/134 "2018-09-17T21:32:30Z")
> [@Maqari\_Kinraysuwa](#): > > Add a -80% mass, -95% velocity -100% range script for HIC bubbles, if CCP is truly so incapable of coding anything else. Rolling HICs don’t need to move when they have their bubbles up. I already proposed this as well. ---
**Author:** ![Harlan\_Adoudel](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/harlan_adoudel/32/93254_2.png) [@Harlan\_Adoudel](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Harlan_Adoudel)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 9:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/potential-fix-for-whers-for-the-500mn-hic/107020/135 "2018-09-17T21:32:36Z")
What about increasing the PG requirements for large MWDs on HICs by 10000% ? We already have cases where specific module groups have reduced fitting on specific ship classes (torpedo launchers on bombers, large guns on ABCs, etc), so it must be possible to do that to specific module groups. Or is there an issue where it would have to apply to all MWDs, not just battleship-sized ones? ---
**Author:** ![Khelar\_Udan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/khelar_udan/32/97133_2.png) [@Khelar\_Udan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Khelar_Udan)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 9:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/potential-fix-for-whers-for-the-500mn-hic/107020/136 "2018-09-17T21:32:41Z")
Common sense hopefully (Read not screwing a decent portion of the playerbase out of their playstyle) ---
**Author:** ![Timm3h](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/timm3h/32/145996_2.png) [@Timm3h](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Timm3h)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 9:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/potential-fix-for-whers-for-the-500mn-hic/107020/137 "2018-09-17T21:32:48Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > No, the fix I suggested - which came from multiple conversations with WHers - was to cut the mass of the porpoise in half and use that instead. > > Which gets you close to where you were on a the high end while still being able to go through frigate sized holes. Read what the actual wormholers in this thread, and not whatever qualifies as a wormholer to INIT., has to say on the issue. You’ll notice that the **LOW END** is what matters in regards to rolling crit wormholes. Nobody that has lived in wormholes for more than five hours cares about high end as much as low end. Low end is about not getting rolled out so you can come back hot and close the hole. High end is just about not having to make two devoter passes. Quality of life, sure, but I’d rather spend an extra 5 minutes doing a second devoter pass than spending 4 hours getting a connection back home. And as for fitting the porpoise through a frig hole, I can make an actual guarantee that nobody that lives in wormholes cares about if the porpoise can fit through a frigate hole or not. ---
**Author:** ![Maqari\_Kinraysuwa](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/maqari_kinraysuwa/32/88071_2.png) [@Maqari\_Kinraysuwa](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Maqari_Kinraysuwa)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 9:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/potential-fix-for-whers-for-the-500mn-hic/107020/138 "2018-09-17T21:34:05Z")
> [@Timm3h](#): > > > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > > > No, the fix I suggested - which came from multiple conversations with WHers - was to cut the mass of the porpoise in half and use that instead. > > > > Which gets you close to where you were on a the high end while still being able to go through frigate sized holes. > > Read what the actual wormholers in this thread, and not whatever qualifies as a wormholer to INIT., has to say on the issue. You’ll notice that the **LOW END** is what matters in regards to rolling crit wormholes. Nobody that has lived in wormholes for more than five hours cares about high end as much as low end. Low end is about not getting rolled out so you can come back hot and close the hole. High end is just about not having to make two devoter passes. Quality of life, sure, but I’d rather spend an extra 5 minutes doing a second devoter pass than spending 4 hours getting a connection back home. > > And as for fitting the porpoise through a frig hole, I can make an actual guarantee that nobody that lives in wormholes cares about if the porpoise can fit through a frigate hole or not. To piggyback off this point, 99% of people who care about rolling frigate connections are dumb krabs and that isn’t a serious concern when it comes to rolling HICs. ---
**Author:** ![Ron\_Jonsohn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ron_jonsohn/32/507784_2.png) [@Ron\_Jonsohn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ron_Jonsohn)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 9:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/potential-fix-for-whers-for-the-500mn-hic/107020/139 "2018-09-17T21:35:03Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > I already proposed this as well. Has a scramble effect on origin ship also been proposed to CCP? I know an outright 500MN MWD exclusion was said to be too much work, but no word on the former. I believe its a simple solution to the problem, please tell me if I am wrong, Brisc. ---
**Author:** ![Khelar\_Udan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/khelar_udan/32/97133_2.png) [@Khelar\_Udan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Khelar_Udan)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 9:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/potential-fix-for-whers-for-the-500mn-hic/107020/140 "2018-09-17T21:35:24Z")
Lurch hics were BS and should be fixed, I’ve been complaining about them for a year. But they were nowhere near prevelant enough to warrant reaming WH’ers like this. ---
**Author:** ![Satori\_Sartori](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/satori_sartori/32/315681_2.png) [@Satori\_Sartori](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Satori_Sartori)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2018, 9:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/potential-fix-for-whers-for-the-500mn-hic/107020/141 "2018-09-17T21:38:12Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > Your only solution appears to be “don’t do anything.” It’s not a solution, it’s feedback to a proposed solution (that degenerates existing gameplay elements). There are multiple other solutions in the thread that don’t compromise rolling HICs - adding a self-scramble effect, loadable mass scripts etc. Rolling Porpoise is the worst out of those solutions. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/potential-fix-for-whers-for-the-500mn-hic/107020.md?page=6) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/potential-fix-for-whers-for-the-500mn-hic/107020.md?page=8)