# Price of Plex - Market intervention Required from CCP **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [March 10, 2019, 11:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/price-of-plex-market-intervention-required-from-ccp/145111 "2019-03-10T11:57:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![Cypherous](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypherous/32/499883_2.png) [@Cypherous](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypherous)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2019, 10:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/price-of-plex-market-intervention-required-from-ccp/145111/452 "2019-03-26T22:12:54Z")
> [@Eveconomist](#): > > You realize the number of possible omega characters active has no cap and thus this cap on SP creation does not exist? It has a cap, and that cap is how many characters players are willing to support, so while the cap is fluid it does incur a cost, both in time spent and PLEX consumed, so yes it does exist > [@Eveconomist](#): > > SP creation is limited by the equilibrium price of Injectors on the market. If it is profitable to SP farm, then there are plenty of veterans out there who will happily Omega hundreds of accounts until the profit goes to zero. Indeed, the system is self regulating, hence there is no requirement for CCP to actually intervene at all, thank you for agreeing with that > [@Eveconomist](#): > > CCP wants to sell as much SP as possible, making it more liquid and efficient to trade between players is counterproductive to that end. Except for the part where they make more money from the current system than they ever would with the old one 😛 Hence its extremely productive for CCP ---
**Author:** ![Greyspear](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/greyspear/32/100859_2.png) [@Greyspear](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Greyspear)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2019, 10:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/price-of-plex-market-intervention-required-from-ccp/145111/453 "2019-03-26T22:13:18Z")
> [@Nikodiemus](#): > > You seem to be missing the fact that any single person can create any number of alphas … Well, you’re not allowed to do so, but even then is it just not a new source of SP, and no amount of new characters that you create will change this. All you would do is to suddenly realise that if you were to train N characters that you could also get N-times more SPs. This is however not new and as old as the game. What is new is that by not holding on to all SPs, but by extracting and injecting them, do you destroy some of it. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2019, 10:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/price-of-plex-market-intervention-required-from-ccp/145111/454 "2019-03-26T22:41:31Z")
> [@Cypherous](#): > > There is still a hard cap, the maximum number of SP that can be generated in all of EVE is directly linked to the number of omega queues that exist, i think you’re getting a little confused here I think you got confused here. first this is not a cap, second you don’t understand what a HARD cap is. A cap on SP production is a NUMBER that is the maximum of SP produced. If for whatever value you choose, this value can be theoretically reached after a finite amount of time, then by definition there is no cap. Since players can create as many toons as they want, there is no such a cap. THEN a hard cap is a value that is written to be the limit that can by rule never be reached. A soft cap is a value that can temporarily be reached but mechanisms are present to ensure this value is in reality the maximum you can expect to reach over a long time. For example there is a hard cap on isk generation from anomalies, because the number of anomalies present is capped : if you have 25 anoms at max per system, 2000 systems, an anom generates 25M isks, and respawns every 10 min, then you can generate at max 2000_25M_25\*6 = 7.5 T isk per hour. That is a hard cap. Now if you also have a mechanism that limits the respawn of anoms if too many are farmed for the next day, you will also have a soft cap that will be lower than the hard cap. You may have more isk on one day than this soft cap, but next day you will have less. ---
**Author:** ![Cypherous](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypherous/32/499883_2.png) [@Cypherous](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypherous)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2019, 10:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/price-of-plex-market-intervention-required-from-ccp/145111/455 "2019-03-26T22:48:21Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > I think you got confused here. first this is not a cap, second you don’t understand what a HARD cap is. Seeing as i’m the person who actually brought it up in the first place, i think i’m more than aware of what i meant, and yes it IS a hard cap, its just a hard cap that has a variable upper limit The comment is in relation to CCP knowing exactly how many SP can be generated at any given period of time, there is no way to generate more SP than can be made by the maximum number of characters that exist with omega skillqueues, ergo there IS a hard cap, if CCP were to start selling proper injectors, that would actually make SP generation infinite and this would then result in there being no hard cap on SP generation Its simple math in terms of knowing exactly how much SP can be generated per day, just because that cap keeps getting raised that doesn’t really change the fact that you’re not generating SP out of thin air ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2019, 10:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/price-of-plex-market-intervention-required-from-ccp/145111/456 "2019-03-26T22:54:36Z")
Just because it’s limited by a factor does not mean it’s a cap. Especially not hard cap. Again, a cap is a MAXIMUM NUMBER that can be reached. Since there is no maximum number of accounts, there is no hard cap on SP creation. CCP did not create a hard cap on SP creation. That means, with enough time and money, you can have an infinite amount of SP creation (eg per hour). > [@Cypherous](#): > > i think i’m more than aware of what i meant And I think you are not aware of what a “hard cap” means. ---
**Author:** ![Greyspear](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/greyspear/32/100859_2.png) [@Greyspear](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Greyspear)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2019, 10:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/price-of-plex-market-intervention-required-from-ccp/145111/457 "2019-03-26T22:57:40Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > And I think you are not aware of what a “hard cap” means. I understood him perfectly. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2019, 10:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/price-of-plex-market-intervention-required-from-ccp/145111/458 "2019-03-26T22:59:30Z")
Then tell us what is this maximum _ **NUMBER** _ of SP creation that is implemented in Eve Online ? ---
**Author:** ![Eveconomist](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/eveconomist/32/126501_2.png) [@Eveconomist](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Eveconomist)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2019, 11:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/price-of-plex-market-intervention-required-from-ccp/145111/459 "2019-03-26T23:01:13Z")
> [@Cypherous](#): > > Except for the part where they make more money from the current system than they ever would with the old one 😛 > > Hence its extremely productive for CCP Selling injectors in the store for PLEX is hardly the old system. Buyers of injectors pay the identical price and thus you would have the the same economic equilibrium. I want to give two examples illustrating of why extractors (and not injectors) are the primary source of Eve’s economic problems: 1. I have a friend of mine who has been paying four subs for many years, $400+ a year for CCP. Just this month, he decided he doesn’t feel the need to accrue more SP in Eve anymore and is converting all 4 accounts to SP extraction mode. PLEX prices will rise because of his new consumption of 2K + ~1.7K PLEX per month (the demand curve). Economics also tells us that more PLEX will be bought with money and sold to compensate for that higher price; however, it also tells us that the aggregate amount will not be the same, it will be a little less, because real world PLEX demand is not inelastic. Imagine if 500 PLEX was 140B ISK, you could just buy one, and be set forever spending $20 on Eve as you could buy 2 titans with it. 2. Back in 2013, I trained my first trader alt. I was still pretty new and I had him on the trade-focused Cha/Mem remap. One of the skills I trained then was the incredibly useless Marketing V. That skill, which I paid for 6 years ago has now been extracted, sold to buy PLEX, and redeployed to become Advanced Laboratory Operation so I have more research slots. This is what I mean by ever escalating productivity gains, and the rise of PLEX prices. I took this liquid asset that yielded 0 ISK and turned it into a much higher yielding one. If I wasn’t able to extract, CCP would not have earned 110 PLEX from me, so they may believe that I should be able to extract Marketing V. However, I was going to train Advanced Laboratory Operation anyways, and once I have it trained on all of my characters and all of my alts, I will have a very productive setup and will never need to buy a sub or a PLEX again. Extractors are steadily increasing player productivity, particularly of those willing to manage lots of alts. We want the hardcore players to not be so productive that they have no need to open their wallets. “Factory” players are not good for the game because they each price out several newbies seeking to PLEX with FW LP for example, and are thus making Eve smaller. If CCP does not remove extractors, then they have to put a cap on the # of Omega alts per account but that is a less elegant solution that is likely less palatable. The longer CCP waits to change this, the worse it’s going to be for them. They need to realize they are in the SP selling business - that is their core product. They got a big infusion of money from the 110 PLEX I paid to extract marketing V, but the party has to end soon or else hyperinflation of PLEX prices will kick in. ---
**Author:** ![Greyspear](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/greyspear/32/100859_2.png) [@Greyspear](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Greyspear)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2019, 11:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/price-of-plex-market-intervention-required-from-ccp/145111/460 "2019-03-26T23:01:44Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > Then tell us what is this maximum NUMBER of SP creation that is implemented in Eve Online ? It’s the number of SPs, which can be created at any given moment based on the existing SP accumulation by actively training characters. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2019, 11:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/price-of-plex-market-intervention-required-from-ccp/145111/461 "2019-03-26T23:02:17Z")
so, there is none. So you don’t understand what a CAP is. ---
**Author:** ![Greyspear](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/greyspear/32/100859_2.png) [@Greyspear](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Greyspear)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2019, 11:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/price-of-plex-market-intervention-required-from-ccp/145111/462 "2019-03-26T23:04:46Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > so, there is none. So you don’t understand what a CAP is. Don’t try too hard… That people talk not only about hard numbers but also about variables should be known to you through math. So don’t act like a hard cap would always be a hard number. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2019, 11:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/price-of-plex-market-intervention-required-from-ccp/145111/463 "2019-03-26T23:06:33Z")
Don’t try too hard, a hard cap IS a number. ---
**Author:** ![Greyspear](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/greyspear/32/100859_2.png) [@Greyspear](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Greyspear)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2019, 11:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/price-of-plex-market-intervention-required-from-ccp/145111/464 "2019-03-26T23:07:21Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > a hard cap IS a number. So is a variable. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2019, 11:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/price-of-plex-market-intervention-required-from-ccp/145111/465 "2019-03-26T23:08:27Z")
no it’s not. Seriously you suffered some heavy brain damage. Saying “a variable is a number” is completely retard. Now you are telling me dogs are cats. Without a single shame. ---
**Author:** ![Greyspear](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/greyspear/32/100859_2.png) [@Greyspear](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Greyspear)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2019, 11:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/price-of-plex-market-intervention-required-from-ccp/145111/466 "2019-03-26T23:10:45Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > no it’s not. > > Seriously you suffered some heavy brain damage. Saying “a variable is a number” is completely retard. You’re having a hard time comprehending others. That’s ok, but don’t let your frustration out on others. Nobody here has got “heavy brain damage”. Keep your cool. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2019, 11:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/price-of-plex-market-intervention-required-from-ccp/145111/467 "2019-03-26T23:15:13Z")
You’re having a hard time understanding you used the wrong terms. That’s ok but then you start saying cats are dogs and start full retard mode. Keep your cool. You may had an interesting point in the post you made, but the moment you affirm there is a hard cap on SP creation, your whole post becomes bullsh¡t. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 1:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/price-of-plex-market-intervention-required-from-ccp/145111/468 "2019-03-27T01:38:07Z")
> [@Eveconomist](#): > > Don’t get me wrong, I too am enjoying the era of “free to play Omega,” that we have now, but I love Eve more. Don’t you see how CCP has effectively turned its veteran players into competitors? > > Also, note that this solution of selling Injectors directly does not disenfranchise current owners of either Injectors or Extractors. I kinda like where you are going with this. I don’t think I grasp the potential side effects of such a change (CCP selling SP directly for a fixed Plex price) as I am always expecting ‘the law of unintended consequences’ to throw a curve ball at us whenever a solution looks simple and effective. I do agree that (by default) encouraging players to turn every alt account into an SP farming and ISK farming alt, and providing the means to do so, is not good for the game. While people talk about ‘SP destruction’ from injectors, without that incentive people would not be multi-training those alt accounts anyway, and they certainly wouldn’t be trading those alt-SPs on the market… so I think the SP destruction point is another red herring thrown out by those who want the practice to continue. What EVE really needs is ISK destruction(sinking), and materiel destruction (to consume all that ridiculous production coming out of Null). They do also need more products they can sell - subs, Plex, MCTs, skins and extractor/injectors simply is not a sustainable cash shop in todays MMO market. On the other hand (\<-- see, I’m a real economist!), I feel that EVE does need either a catch-up mechanism or an alteration to the way skill training works. Looking at your skill queue and thinking ‘hey, in only 247 days I can be flying an ‘X’’, may have worked okay ‘back in the day’… it is not really competitive in today’s busy MMO market. ---
**Author:** ![Bjorn\_Tyrson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bjorn_tyrson/32/371958_2.png) [@Bjorn\_Tyrson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bjorn_Tyrson)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 3:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/price-of-plex-market-intervention-required-from-ccp/145111/469 "2019-03-27T03:19:24Z")
> [@Nikodiemus](#): > > That single person doesn’t have to extract his hard earned character they’ve had since 08, they can just train 50 alphas to 5 mil and start extracting. yes, in theory they CAN do that… have you ever tried it though? I have. I did 5 characters, and it was one of the most painful things I have ever had to do. not to mention time consuming and takes a LOOOOOONG time to actually start getting a return on investment. not sure if you’ve noticed, but SP farms are not actually profitable right now. even using buy orders for the plex, sell orders for the injectors etc. you still come out with a deficit of about 200m isk, even for accounts with 3 characters (so can use the MPTC’s for a discount) even when they are profitable, you only REALLY make your isk off the 2nd and 3rd character slots. at alpha training speed, and since they can only use +3 implants, it takes roughly 5 months to train up to 5m SP and to be truly profitable you need all 3 characters, so thats 15 months, of logging in at least once every 2-3 days (often times every day) just to save 14-15 bil getting all those characters trained up. or hell, just going over to the charactar bazaar and buying a SP farm character for 6b or less each. not to mention those are 15 months that you aren’t earning any profits from those characters (while a purchased one can start producing isk instantly, and a trained up one takes 2-3 months to start producing any profit, let alone breaking even.) and thats just for 1 account, to earn a whopping profit ranging from -200m to ~400m per month (depending on how good or bad the prices are) now your telling me, that you think there is a whole bunch of people out there, going out and spending hours, every single day, setting skill queues on 50+ of these, for over a year at a time, just to turn a couple hundred mil per month? hell, you would be better off using those R&D agents for datacores. at least thats actually passive income once you get it going. ---
**Author:** ![Jeremiah\_Saken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jeremiah_saken/32/266740_2.png) [@Jeremiah\_Saken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jeremiah_Saken)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 6:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/price-of-plex-market-intervention-required-from-ccp/145111/470 "2019-03-27T06:24:38Z")
This should be the same for omega injectors. 1800000 total SP you may inject monthly bought directly from CCP. Cap would be BS class. Supers for dedicated players only, buying from character bazaar is not the same as injecting everything with few clicks. We on spiral now. Vets telling alphas to go to NS and inject for capital ratting is missile in the knee. The more injectors are needed the more plex would be suck up from market by SP farms the more time would have to be spent on ratting for said plex. Now not NS donkey will leave because the stick that holding the carrot become longer and longer every day, and most topics alphas are talking are: how to plex. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2019, 6:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/price-of-plex-market-intervention-required-from-ccp/145111/471 "2019-03-27T06:43:47Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > The truth is, no model is correct IRL either. Every model that tried to predict the prices of something failed, for a simple reason : none can predict the human interactions. Will people have a sudden change of interest and invest in it ? Yes and no. As G.E.P Box put it, “All models are wrong, but some are useful.” Or, > … all models are approximations. Essentially, all models are wrong, but some are useful. However, the approximate nature of the model must always be borne in mind… In fact, models, being simplifications of reality, are by definition wrong…so if your nihilist sophistry above is true why even do it at all? Because in certain contexts models can be useful at gaining insights as to how things work. > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > Nobody knows. It’s butterfly effect, AKA chaotic effect from initial state (lack of) precision ; added the random nature of human interactions and random nature of science evolution. Nonsense…they have looked and looked for non-linear dynamics that are sensitive to initial conditions in economic data and just haven’t found it. > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > In eve, initial precision is missing because we don’t know what people have in term of isks, plex, and their plan for them. “science evolution” is more the effect from CCP patches on the isk creation (and bots too BTW), and how people fit their ships. Human interaction is … well the same, more wars, more people coming, people station trading instead of farming, etc. Sure… > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > My personal opinion is, that CCP should stop making special offers for plex. Keep it at the current price, never make any more offer on plex - make offer on other things, like extractors plex price, but don’t change the plex2dollar ratio on random basis. Nice job contradicting yourself. You just got done telling us we can’t know anything, all models are wrong thatwe don’t have enough information, but you know what CCP should do. Oh and… > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > I don’t think people who want lower plex price think of something else than their own short-term interest, so their cry sound like annoying egoistic begging in my ears. Hahahaha…🤣 > [@Eveconomist](#): > > Extractors have given every player in Eve a liquid asset which they did not have before. Furthermore, this asset is precisely what CCP is in the business of selling (SP). Uhhhmmmm no. ISK is liquid, SP are not. They must be extracted first which comes at a cost, then sold, which comes at a cost…so they are not liquid, they are actually illiquid assets. > [@Eveconomist](#): > > This liquid asset is being and has been redeployed to ever more productive activities via PLEXing. Says who? Maybe…maybe not. > [@Eveconomist](#): > > The Injector penalty only penalizes the instant redeployment of it, not redeployment over time. What does this mean? > [@Eveconomist](#): > > This has created a perverse incentive for players to extract skills like say, Medium Autocannon Spec V, use the funds raised to then PLEX and train ISK productive skills on all of their characters. Uhhh no…once I get a skill like that to level V I am not going to extract. > [@Eveconomist](#): > > …use the funds raised to then PLEX and train ISK productive skills on all of their characters. Until they get blown up by the guy who still has that skill trained to V. > [@Eveconomist](#): > > PLEX has two primary purposes, Omega Game time and pure SP gain. CCP should seek to maximize its use as the former and minimize it its use as the latter because the former boosts the size of the Eve network and its effects while the latter is decreasing it as ISK productive players with N number of alts price out the ISK unproductive ones. Do you know what a substitute good is? > [@Eveconomist](#): > > PLEX prices cannot healthily rise indefinitely because a large part of the ISK economy is pegged to a nominal ISK value (think LP and mission rewards, for example); players respond to incentives, much of the gameplay in eve has been getting “priced out” for years now. Why are you fixated on acquiring PLEX? > [@Eveconomist](#): > > Solution: CCP must sell Injectors directly in the store for ~235 PLEX instead of selling Extractors. This would be a terrible idea. The whole idea extractors is so that SP is not being created out of thin air. > [@Eveconomist](#): > > And secondly, “we do not want to create a new source of SPs.” > We already have, it’s being done by the players over time buying/consuming PLEX and extracting the SP from alts. Nobody is saying “don’t create new SP” just as nobody (who knows better) is saying “don’t crease new ISK”. It is the creating it out of thin air for RL money. Training takes time…and time is a valuable commodity. People trade time for SP and trade time for ISK. Creating SP or ISK out of thin air is what will debase things like SP and ISK. > [@Eveconomist](#): > > Even as “professional” SP farming has declined, players are still informally extracting at a small loss now because there is ISK generating value in having useful Omega alts. And this is not a problem. It is not a problem because of the increasing costs associated with injecting SP. That cost basically destroys SP…it is an SP sink once a player passes the 5 million SP. > [@Eveconomist](#): > > Don’t get me wrong, I too am enjoying the era of “free to play Omega,” that we have now, but I love Eve more. Don’t you see how CCP has effectively turned its veteran players into competitors? I really wish people proclaiming to understand economics would demonstrate even the slightest understanding of opportunity cost of time… > [@Eveconomist](#): > > If you go to the store right now buy $20 of PLEX and sell it to your corpmate so he can Omega, how is that not a NEW source of SP? The only difference is that 30 days have to lapse. It is new SP that takes time. So not a problem. Now if you dropped $20 and just got 30 days of SP or say 1.5 million SP that would be creating SP out of thin air. Creating in game resources out of thin air is a sure fire way to ruin the game. It would be impossible to balance. > [@Eveconomist](#): > > CCP is in the business of selling SP _**(over time)**_. Yes, not instantaneously. > [@Eveconomist](#): > > You’re right, but instead of a player buying PLEX to then sell for ISK to then buy injectors from a middleman, CCP can and should cut out the middleman. All “new” SP is good for CCP bc that is new sales for them, whether it be PLEX or subs. However, “old” SP trading is not, CCP only takes a 110 PLEX commission on it, and it is just as good and competes with “new” SP. This is the height of stupidity. Why can’t we have private fiat currencies? Because at a certain point each issuer of fiat currency has a very strong incentive to suddenly inflate the currency and destroy it, but walk away with a nice bundle of cash. This is what you are essentially advocating. That CCP basically create a fiat currency in SP. > [@Eveconomist](#): > > As for the injector penalty SP sink, it’s still in place by selling Injectors in the store. Nothing is changed, you have to think about it in terms of how much SP is received per unit of PLEX consumed. Derp…it isn’t so much the ISK sink, but the SP sink. > [@Eveconomist](#): > > Someone PLEXes, extracts 4 Injectors, then Injects them on another character, they receive 1.6M unallocated SP. Depends. If I injected those 4 injectors on my main I’d only get 600,000 the other 1.4 million would be destroyed. > [@Eveconomist](#): > > Did they “lose” 400K SP or did they not simply pay 500 PLEX for 1.6M SP? Just as they would, say, with a suboptimal remap. You seem to have fallen for the sunk cost fallacy, Mr. Greyspear. For someone claiming to be some sort of economist you have zero clue about the [rate of time preference](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_preference). > [@Eveconomist](#): > > The 400K SP (and extractor PLEX cost) is a transaction cost. Man Douglas North just rolled over in his grave at that… > [@Eveconomist](#): > > however, it also tells us that the aggregate amount will not be the same, it will be a little less, because real world PLEX demand is not inelastic. Imagine if 500 PLEX was 140B ISK, you could just buy one, and be set forever spending $20 on Eve as you could buy 2 titans with it. Sooo…PLEX are a Giffen Good? > [@Eveconomist](#): > > Back in 2013, I trained my first trader alt. I was still pretty new and I had him on the trade-focused Cha/Mem remap. One of the skills I trained then was the incredibly useless Marketing V. That skill, which I paid for 6 years ago has now been extracted, sold to buy PLEX, and redeployed to become Advanced Laboratory Operation so I have more research slots. This is what I mean by ever escalating productivity gains, and the rise of PLEX prices. And how much SP were destroyed in the process? > [@Eveconomist](#): > > Extractors are steadily increasing player productivity, particularly of those willing to manage lots of alts. Not anymore than time would. Once you go over 5 million SP SP are being destroyed. All other things held constant SP would go down. > [@Eveconomist](#): > > …soon or else hyperinflation will kick in. Even though the in game CPI is showing at most mild inflation… > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > I kinda like where you are going with this. I don’t think I grasp the potential side effects of such a change (CCP selling SP directly for a fixed Plex price) as I am always expecting ‘the law of unintended consequences’ to throw a curve ball at us whenever a solution looks simple and effective. Yes, it is called debasing SP. In fact, this could lead to the increasing productivity that Eveconomist is worried about. Players could just buy SP at a fixed rate and are limited only by their own RL income/wealth. Right now SP have to be created in game over time, and thus trying to buy more and more will, as Eveconomist correctly notes, will result in a rising price and there is the increasing destruction of SP. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > What EVE really needs is ISK destruction(sinking), and materiel destruction (to consume all that ridiculous production coming out of Null). They do also need more products they can sell - subs, Plex, MCTs, skins and extractor/injectors simply is not a sustainable cash shop in todays MMO market. Deflation is bad for economies. I don’t know why everyone wants to keep on sinking ISK when the inflation index shows little problem with inflation. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/price-of-plex-market-intervention-required-from-ccp/145111.md?page=22) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/price-of-plex-market-intervention-required-from-ccp/145111.md?page=24)