# Proposal - Crime is not realistically punished **URL:** \ **Category:** Assembly Hall\ **Created:** [May 13, 2023, 5:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-crime-is-not-realistically-punished/405782 "2023-05-13T17:43:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Yasminka\_Duchovnavik](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yasminka_duchovnavik/32/397398_2.png) [@Yasminka\_Duchovnavik](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Yasminka_Duchovnavik)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2023, 12:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-crime-is-not-realistically-punished/405782/81 "2023-05-29T00:54:06Z")
It means I wont because this is an Alt, and I do not want people knowing what my main character is for what should be obvious reasons in EvE, with the proposal I have submitted here. What I have proposed is Dangerous. Not just to my Main, but all of my characters people are aware of. And Goonswarm is not exactly … Forgiving to people who actively seek to destroy their preferred pastimes and playstyles. So this account is completely unrelated to anything having to do with my main account. No mails, No Transactions, No corps, nothing even relating to my main. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2023, 1:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-crime-is-not-realistically-punished/405782/82 "2023-05-29T01:03:33Z")
Ok, I can understand that. But that unfortunately means that nothing you claim is verifyable by hard facts. Please understand that as well. Imagine me creating a completely unrelated account, making topics about “xyz is not working”, claiming that too many targets escape, that I do everything right and still I won’t get it done… You would instantly tell me that this can’t be, there must be something wrong with how I am doing it and I should tell what exactly I am doing, what fits I am using etc. pp… And now imagine I am telling you that I cannot talk about that because I want to stay anonymous and you should simply believe me. But I still claim that there is a problem that should be fixed because I say so. Would you give my words any weight? ---
**Author:** ![Yasminka\_Duchovnavik](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yasminka_duchovnavik/32/397398_2.png) [@Yasminka\_Duchovnavik](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Yasminka_Duchovnavik)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2023, 1:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-crime-is-not-realistically-punished/405782/83 "2023-05-29T01:06:35Z")
Well, if you really want proof it isn’t difficult to find. Just join a gank group and watch the fireworks. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2023, 1:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-crime-is-not-realistically-punished/405782/84 "2023-05-29T01:08:36Z")
I don’t doubt that people are getting ganked. The overwhelming majority of them because they made lazy stupid mistakes on their way to the killmail. I just doubt that smart and active people are getting ganked to a degree that we have a problem that must be fixed. ---
**Author:** ![Anthony\_FatTony\_Amico](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anthony_fattony_amico/32/391106_2.png) [@Anthony\_FatTony\_Amico](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anthony_FatTony_Amico)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2023, 1:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-crime-is-not-realistically-punished/405782/85 "2023-05-29T01:10:21Z")
> [@Yasminka\_Duchovnavik](#): > > I think the RP of literally every single Empire and their Lore, and Story, would 100% disagree with you. There are stories of how badly the cadari worker is treated. How corruption runs deep within Gallentie society. How the Amarr went to war with the Jove Empire. etc. All within the lore website that I have read. Yah EVE is a pretty dark place LOL. > [@Yasminka\_Duchovnavik](#): > > You can think Highsec is designed however you like. But I’m fairly certain in ALL Empire Spaces the penalty for Piracy is Death by law, Not “Blow up your ship and ignore you when your back with another one 5 minuets later”. This is a grey area really where RP/gameplay come together. I honestly agree with the current system and how that fits in with the EVE universe. So, in the end I will have to agree to disagree with you 😛 > [@Yasminka\_Duchovnavik](#): > > I saw a properly fit anti Gank Golemn get KOD by a bunch of Catalysts 3 days ago, he wasn’t AFK and he did exactly what he was supposed to do they hit him as he was warping in a .6. So i’m a call BS, The guy did everything correctly and still got popped. Even his fit was spot on. I have stories of incursion runners. The wealthiest PVErs in HS get attacked by gankers and lived. **ITS HARD TO GANK A MAURADER** 😆 You can also start by linking the zkill of that marauder. Been hauling my kronos + shiny gear around. Scanned surely multiple times and people know I run incursions on this character. Ill inform you when I die 😆 (It will be never) ---
**Author:** ![Yasminka\_Duchovnavik](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yasminka_duchovnavik/32/397398_2.png) [@Yasminka\_Duchovnavik](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Yasminka_Duchovnavik)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2023, 1:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-crime-is-not-realistically-punished/405782/86 "2023-05-29T01:13:52Z")
Honestly I just run Incursions in a t2 fit Abbadon. Or a semi Shiny Legion. I see no point to the Blingy Incursion ships, Their not really needed. Plus the Rats seem to target based on Value of Ship (Weirdly enough), So I rarely ever get targeted anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Anthony\_FatTony\_Amico](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anthony_fattony_amico/32/391106_2.png) [@Anthony\_FatTony\_Amico](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anthony_FatTony_Amico)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2023, 1:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-crime-is-not-realistically-punished/405782/87 "2023-05-29T01:18:02Z")
Then you do not know how min/max PVE gets and how the ganking factor comes into play. Especially in HQs I have the zkill of a veteran incursion runner who lost their bowhead for the **second time**. Did not put rig modules on it and had horrible low slots. (12billion lost). Due to rules in HQ incursions and for my sake I can’t publish it here. Id happily mail it to you in game if you want. People are so rich they don’t even care these days lol ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2023, 11:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-crime-is-not-realistically-punished/405782/88 "2023-05-29T11:11:12Z")
Hello, I didn’t have much time yesterday, but I’d like to explain my concerns in a little more detail. I won’t even argue that a lot of Marauders are ganked and often with pretty cheap ganking-crews. that _looks like_ it is too easy to gank them, but I dare to disagree here. Most of these marauder fits are bad. And I mean really bad. Even if they look solid on first glance. They are bad because they are not designed to cover the most important risk: Being ganked. And in addition most pilots even fail to execute the most basic tasks when being ganked. They initiate warp after a gatejump, get the point from the pre-tackler on the gate which they have overlooked (together with the combat probes and the 10 catalysts on Dscan and the 10 suspicous chars in local) and then just sit there for 10 seconds, staring at the screen, not realizing why the ship is not warping. Then the Catfleet arrives and boom. Maybe they send their Golem into bastion after half their shield is already gone. And the Shieldbooster and Invul are not overheated, if running at all. And after losing 2b in 20 seconds full of their own mistakes, they complain that EVE is unfair. ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2023, 12:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-crime-is-not-realistically-punished/405782/89 "2023-05-29T12:40:06Z")
Remember when High Sec was chock full of piracy besides ganking? That’s normal. The current situation where only ganking and then a few big wardec groups exist should be viewed as a temporary aberration. Proposals that go in the other direction(continue to restrict rather than expand) are laughable and deserve mockery and getting booted from Goons and all related social pariah consequences. ---
**Author:** ![an675](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/an675/32/399327_2.png) [@an675](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/an675)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2023, 1:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-crime-is-not-realistically-punished/405782/91 "2023-05-29T13:55:50Z")
> [@Syzygium](#): > > Most of these marauder fits are bad. And I mean really bad. Looking at most of the gate kills over the last week they’re all active fit with no buffer, so they can sustain the damage from rats by being cap stable and constantly running shield boosters but have no defence against high dps. Most of the losses died to very small amounts of damage (29k-50k), when even a damage control II and a couple of shield extenders would have given a fighting chance. This is a perfect example: > **[Golem | Avase Nagase | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/109250062/)** > > Avase Nagase (Space Cowboys Inc.) lost their Golem in Eredan (Devoid). Final Blow by Alex Demidrol (Lake-Of-Tears) flying in a Tornado. Total Value: 5,627,824,149.52 ISK 54.4k ehp (77.7k in bastion) Swap a cap battery, cap recharger, bcs for 2 faction LSE, use SM-705, and a 20m isk cpu implant gives you 90.4k ehp (129k in basion), and its still cap stable and same dps as the original. For travelling you could then swap a BCS for damage control II for 111k ehp (157k bastion). But instead its much easier to fit it for max damage/isk and then moan about it being unfair and get it nerfed. ---
**Author:** ![Eldstokkr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/eldstokkr/32/361029_2.png) [@Eldstokkr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Eldstokkr)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2023, 4:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-crime-is-not-realistically-punished/405782/92 "2023-05-31T04:28:29Z")
> [@Yasminka\_Duchovnavik](#): > > I saw a properly fit anti Gank Golemn get KOD by a bunch of Catalysts 3 days ago, he wasn’t AFK and he did exactly what he was supposed to do they hit him as he was warping in a .6. So i’m a call BS, The guy did everything correctly and still got popped. Even his fit was spot on. The Prophet assumes you have the kill mail as proof course. > [@Yasminka\_Duchovnavik](#): > > If you knew you could Rob a bank, and kill several people, and your only consequence was the amount of time it takes you to get to another bank… Except every citizen of New Eden could also simply stop them. Fit up. Fleet up. Fly out. Your hue and cry, while amusing, is ultimately pitiful. Stop crying to our overlords to protect you. Chamber some antimatter in your blasters and do it yourself. Piracy only exists because you and others like you use your words instead of your firmpoints. > [@Yasminka\_Duchovnavik](#): > > I was… Scanning on the Gate. Of course you were. Conveniently there is no proof. Could you name the system perhaps? > [@Yasminka\_Duchovnavik](#): > > It means I wont because this is an Alt, and I do not want people knowing what my main character is for what should be obvious reasons in EvE, with the proposal I have submitted here. Ah. So you’re a coward. You should have led with that statement. > [@an675](#): > > But instead its much easier to fit it for max damage/isk and then moan about it being unfair and get it nerfed. This capsuleer speaks truth. ---
**Author:** ![Wes\_Wyhunnan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wes_wyhunnan/32/409400_2.png) [@Wes\_Wyhunnan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wes_Wyhunnan)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2023, 5:24am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-crime-is-not-realistically-punished/405782/93 "2023-05-31T05:24:45Z")
> [@Yasminka\_Duchovnavik](#): > > And Goonswarm is not exactly … Forgiving to people who actively seek to destroy their preferred pastimes and playstyles. The only thing any self respecting GSF corp would care about in any of this is why one of their members was whining about hi sec nonsense on the forums and dragging them into it. Take it to Helldump ---
**Author:** ![Noukie\_Phoria](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/noukie_phoria/32/373314_2.png) [@Noukie\_Phoria](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Noukie_Phoria)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2023, 5:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-crime-is-not-realistically-punished/405782/94 "2023-05-31T05:36:19Z")
Ther isn’t crime, this is video game. No police come for arrest, no need for lawyer & no judge for convict. No one go jail & do parole for police to put drugs in pocket for catch him and blame Miranda. ---
**Author:** ![an675](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/an675/32/399327_2.png) [@an675](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/an675)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2023, 8:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-crime-is-not-realistically-punished/405782/95 "2023-05-31T08:46:35Z")
Having been in goons for quite a while i’m fairly confident they wouldn’t have the slightest interest in a random game suggestion posted on a forum. Outside of a few well known individuals i’m not even convinced there is much interest in ganking, let alone it being a ‘preferred pastime/playstyle’. The thing they might be interested in is his participation in the ganking, assuming it happened, if he’s using a character in another player corp/alliance since it runs the risk of ganking people that would be blue to his goon characters. ---
**Author:** ![Aeryn\_Maricadie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aeryn_maricadie/32/373550_2.png) [@Aeryn\_Maricadie](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aeryn_Maricadie)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2023, 7:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-crime-is-not-realistically-punished/405782/96 "2023-06-10T07:33:01Z")
Yeah this is silliness, it is actually really hard to commit piracy in this game. You don’t just go out and kill a 20 bil isk hauler every other day. It takes a massive amount of time and effort from multiple people and taking just the slightest bit of precaution makes it basically impossible to gank for a profit. It takes probably at least three times the effort to gank a hauler than it does for the hauler to use some basic safety measures. Every one of these threads has something like waaagh I tried to take the stuff I had been farming in complete safety for weeks to dump them in Jita all at once because it is super efficient for me. None of these threads consider that CCP does not want this to occur, because super efficient safe high sec grinding will bork the balance of intergalactic trade. ---
**Author:** ![Eldstokkr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/eldstokkr/32/361029_2.png) [@Eldstokkr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Eldstokkr)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2023, 8:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-crime-is-not-realistically-punished/405782/97 "2023-06-11T08:05:25Z")
The Prophet is well aware that you cannot make a living anymore as a true pirate and that is a sad thing. Those who prey on the soft unaware targets of high sec only do so because other avenues of this life have been closed. ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2023, 5:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-crime-is-not-realistically-punished/405782/99 "2023-08-03T17:52:01Z")
„Think of the new players“ has been a very old excuse for these sorts of changes. They now have The Agency, Opportunities, AIR Career Programs, a dedicated CCP run website, in addition to player run Eve Uni, Career Agents, Rookie Chat, and player run NPSI public fleets. Plus the Crimewatch changes of 7 years ago got rid of most high sec criminals, and mining holds got rid of CEO Hillmar‘s favorite „emergent gameplay“ example (jetcan mining) thus eliminating jetcan suspect baiting. Being a new player has never been better before. Yet somehow after all that, gankers and criminals in high sec are _still_ the problem? 🙄 They’re killing freighters, high end abyssal bling boats, and marauders. Rarely the poorly fit T1 hauler loot piñata. None of these are actual new players. (The apocryphal „newbie in a marauder“ is a long running joke“) So yes, _actually_ look at the perspective from the new player, and come to grips with reality. They need to be hardened and wisened up to the challenges other players present in Eve, not be sold on a deceitful premise. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2023, 9:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-crime-is-not-realistically-punished/405782/101 "2023-08-03T21:48:02Z")
> [@Julio\_Shelby](#): > > I haven’t seen anyone opposing her idea considering the perspective of new players. We have heard ten thousand “… but the children!” arguments over the years. As far as I am concerned, we do new players a disservice by assuming they are incapable of doing what folks who preceded them did, This game has done a ton for new players over the years, all while keeping the fundamentals of the game the same. OP is suggesting we need to fundamentally alter the game, and I disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Erebus\_TheChin\_Sundance](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/erebus_thechin_sundance/32/375165_2.png) [@Erebus\_TheChin\_Sundance](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Erebus_TheChin_Sundance)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2023, 12:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-crime-is-not-realistically-punished/405782/102 "2023-08-04T00:08:54Z")
I have always found it odd that criminals can enter hisec through gates at all. It Doesn’t make sense to a lot of new players. yes ofc they soon learn 🙂 I would rather see a new mobile structure, like a black ops cyno, that once anchored _in lowsec_ could send a party of 5/10/25 whatever to a hisec location for the gank, there would be no need for a return trip as concord would blow up the ships and they can pod express home. The addition of a single use mobile structure, if set at a isk/build cost coal of say 50mil, to the cost of a gank and the extra effort might appease some of the concerns that keep coming up over the years and would still allow pirate groups to infiltrate hisec in a more dramatic manner. ---
**Author:** ![Wes\_Wyhunnan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wes_wyhunnan/32/409400_2.png) [@Wes\_Wyhunnan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wes_Wyhunnan)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2023, 1:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-crime-is-not-realistically-punished/405782/103 "2023-08-04T01:11:47Z")
> [@Erebus\_TheChin\_Sundance](#): > > and the extra effort might appease some of the concerns that keep coming up over the years Spoiler alert: It would not. There is no appeasing them until all hi sec pvp is eliminated. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-crime-is-not-realistically-punished/405782.md?page=4) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-crime-is-not-realistically-punished/405782.md?page=6)