# Proposal for Rebalancing of the Suicide Gank **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Tags:** high-sec\ **Created:** [June 24, 2022, 9:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013 "2022-06-24T09:28:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/uriel_the_flame/32/490165_2.png) [@Uriel\_the\_Flame](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Uriel_the_Flame)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2022, 1:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/404 "2022-09-13T13:50:50Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Huh I never realised uncited definitions were included in facts. [You are not yet disciplined enough in the way of seeing facts.](https://www.abhaf.org/assets/books/html/1984/163.html) ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2022, 2:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/405 "2022-09-13T14:24:21Z")
> [@Jesse\_W\_James](#): > > I will have to assume it is you when you figured out catalysts are actually sh\*t ships for real PvP. > **[Cormorant | Andrew Shemetyuk | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/95643985/)** > > Andrew Shemetyuk (EDEN HEAVY INDUSTRIES) lost their Cormorant in Hevrice (Verge Vendor) Total Value: 9,387,743.82 ISK > **[Algos | Orano Tokisago | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/96081575/)** > > Orano Tokisago (Center for Advanced Studies) lost their Algos in Hevrice (Verge Vendor) Total Value: 1,982,898.54 ISK > **[Algos | Hugo Leydet | Killmail](https://zkillboard.com/kill/96090022/)** > > Hugo Leydet (Dynamics 720) lost their Algos in Hevrice (Verge Vendor). Final Blow by Ax'l Thorne (Black Rebel Rifter Club) flying in a Dragoon. Total Value: 1,581,028.58 ISK My Dragoon didn’t get the memo. I’ll be sure to pass it on. Elite PvPer Jessie James says your class of ship sucks at PvP. You should retire now. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2022, 3:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/406 "2022-09-13T15:09:46Z")
> [@Jesse\_W\_James](#): > > scared of real PvP Oh God…we’re back to the ‘real PvP’ thing again. So, when 4 Tornadoes blap a Tristan at a gate camp, is that ‘real PvP’ ? When 4 Drekavacs scram and blap a Vedmak in WH space…is that ‘real PvP’ ? It’s just that you making out that the use of overwhelming force makes something _not_ ‘real PvP’ would mean that _most_ of the blapping in Eve is not ‘real PvP’ Oh, and can we see your certificate from CCP citing you as the absolute authority on what is…ahem…‘real PvP’. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2022, 3:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/407 "2022-09-13T15:48:45Z")
Winston was a traitor not to the State but to himself. What a carebear ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2022, 4:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/408 "2022-09-13T16:44:17Z")
“It’s only The Real PvP™ when I do it and win, everything else is not PvP” ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2022, 5:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/409 "2022-09-13T17:27:39Z")
Let’s get real here When _other_ people shoot at me, it’s toxic. ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2022, 6:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/410 "2022-09-13T18:10:09Z")
> [@Io\_Koval](#): > > It’s only The Real PvP™ when I do it and win Reminds me of some guy flipping cans of a miner in his myrm, so I blew him away with a broadsword. His corp told me that he was crying his eyes out in corp chat, how unfair it was. Guess that was not his idea of real PvP - ROFL. ---
**Author:** ![Qia\_Kare](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/qia_kare/32/279281_2.png) [@Qia\_Kare](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Qia_Kare)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2022, 6:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/411 "2022-09-13T18:18:17Z")
The word ‘real’ doesn’t mean anything in most uses I encounter. Like “Made with real cheese” and “Made with cheese” mean the same thing, but the former sounds better because people will give the benefit of the doubt that something that isn’t cheese but is still called cheese when used to make things could exist. Take the statement itself and see that it’s contradictory by it’s nature. “It’s not real PvP” is on the one hand saying it is some kind of PvP, just not the real kind, but if it is a kind of PvP, and it really happened, how does it even make sense that it isn’t ‘real PvP’? ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2022, 7:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/412 "2022-09-13T19:55:59Z")
Some actual data ( for a change )… Players who biomass go to a corporation called Doomheim. Concord send the relevant corp emails to state the player has ‘retired’. Now I know a lot of people say noobs are leaving Eve en masse due to ganking, but in actual fact, of the 20 cases I have emails for ( most of whom joined the corp as noobs ) the average age at which they left Eve was… 365.05 days ---
**Author:** ![Qia\_Kare](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/qia_kare/32/279281_2.png) [@Qia\_Kare](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Qia_Kare)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2022, 9:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/413 "2022-09-13T21:31:33Z")
_Heavy Sigh_ I don’t really want to argue against your position, but for the sake of analysis, I’m not sure that biomassing is a reliable indicator. Biomassing is only a necessary step for someone who has filled 3 character slots and wants to create a new character on their account in one of those slots in exchange for giving up one they already have. A new player biomassing to quit is expending unnecessary effort as opposed to just uninstalling the game and never looking back. I think people quit either because they have nothing they want to do in the game that they think they can do and is worth the effort, or because the game they were playing did not align with their expectations. Both of these things can be affected with education. Teach people what to expect and people who start playing are more likely to be the kind that will keep playing. Teach people what they can possibly do, how they might go about it, and what obstacles they are likely to face, and they are more likely to have some self selected goal to work towards that they won’t quit on when they meet their first obstacle. People who expect to be left alone in highsec and who know of nothing to do there but grind wealth to spend on ‘real pvp’, whatever that is, are going to quit when the reality doesn’t match their expectations and the only thing they know they can do proves to be ephemeral, if it can be attained at all, in that limited scope of thought. I don’t think players quitting is necessarily a bad thing, either, if Eve is a game they don’t want to play as long as some players who try the game are sticking with it. People who get hooked on Eve tend to play it for a _very_ long time. I think it owes that distinction to its uniqueness, but that uniqueness has been eroded over time as people hammer on it to be more mainstream or casual. The broader their appeal the more people they can attract and the longer joe random will stay, but there’s a limit beyond which joe random becomes bored anyway and can not be retained. He’ll be in a big ship, but won’t have any reason for which to use it after it is attained. Once progression stops, that’s it. Eve is not a progression game with a theme park treadmill to keep that sort of player to begin with. Creating those elements looks like it would be a major paradigm shift involving a monumental amount of development work that is unlikely to ever be invested into a game that works fine as it is. When someone plays Eve, and loves it, its because they either want to start trouble with their own hands, or put a stop to it with those hands. It’s the ability to change the world they’re in that they get drunk on. For every option taken out of players hands everyone suffers. Less happens, and the less that happens the more bored we become with a static universe. I’m sure that causes some people to quit, too. Antagonists, like gankers, are the spice in a good story. Sure, you can still write a story without an antagonist, but it’s likely to be boring and not a lot of folks are going to want to read it. Regardless of whether some people quit because of it, getting rid of ganking (or ‘rebalancing’ it until it is gone) would make bland a delicious recipe because someone couldn’t handle a little salt in the dish. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2022, 10:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/414 "2022-09-13T22:56:58Z")
“Every sport needs a villain.” Ray Billings. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2022, 11:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/415 "2022-09-13T23:28:31Z")
> [@Qia\_Kare](#): > > A new player biomassing to quit is expending unnecessary effort as opposed to just uninstalling the game and never looking back. True, but the point was not to prove that few noobs leave, which it doesn’t necessarily do, but to point out the large number of older players who are leaving. And they sure as hell are not leaving because someone ganked them in a Venture and then taunted them. So however one interprets it, the game is losing a lot of players around a year old…while everyone focuses on noobs. If those noobs stay but then also leave after a year…then maybe people are looking for the hemorrhaging of Eve in the wrong place. ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2022, 11:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/416 "2022-09-13T23:30:10Z")
> [@MB\_ThePhotographer](#): > > Every sport needs a villain. What sport are we talking about, Pop the Miner? ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2022, 11:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/417 "2022-09-13T23:43:50Z")
Might as well be. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2022, 8:04am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/418 "2022-09-14T08:04:06Z")
Once all the gankers and pirates and griefers are gone, then everyone is free to be a villain. _So we scoop up the creatures Then we put them in a geodesic dome But the questions arises, my friend What have we become?_ Interesting fact, “villain” comes from French and is a derogatory term for “the villagers” or common-folk, seen by the aristocrisy as generally a bad lot. ---
**Author:** ![Jesse\_W\_James](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jesse_w_james/32/316227_2.png) [@Jesse\_W\_James](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jesse_W_James)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2022, 9:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/419 "2022-09-14T09:32:29Z")
I mean it is a 0.3 system, that is PvP and good fun. The guy has clearly been ganked before. Nice job on the 700K isk kill. 💘 JJ ---
**Author:** ![Jesse\_W\_James](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jesse_w_james/32/316227_2.png) [@Jesse\_W\_James](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jesse_W_James)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2022, 9:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/420 "2022-09-14T09:34:57Z")
Nothing wrong with it, but when you have a crush, you are more supportive, and defensive for that person with no real backing. Maybe I am just jealous at the end of the day. Maybe Zaera will meet me at the Saloon who knows? JJ ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2022, 9:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/421 "2022-09-14T09:36:03Z")
So yeah, in his view its a negative thing to like another person. Says it all really. ---
**Author:** ![Jesse\_W\_James](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jesse_w_james/32/316227_2.png) [@Jesse\_W\_James](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jesse_W_James)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2022, 9:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/422 "2022-09-14T09:39:34Z")
I mean, we can agree the cat has really good dps, but not a lot of support otherwise. If you can get in on the prey, and tackle it I feel you might have the upper hand in most situations. Lose the brawling distance; well, you might be warping home before your hull runs out. Add space for a few drones I could have a change of heart. Maybe it is coming in the ship rebalance who know. JJ ---
**Author:** ![Jesse\_W\_James](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jesse_w_james/32/316227_2.png) [@Jesse\_W\_James](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jesse_W_James)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2022, 9:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/423 "2022-09-14T09:40:13Z")
Can you read? > [@Jesse\_W\_James](#): > > Nothing wrong with it, JJ [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013.md?page=20) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013.md?page=22)