# Proposal for Rebalancing of the Suicide Gank **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Tags:** high-sec\ **Created:** [June 24, 2022, 9:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013 "2022-06-24T09:28:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2022, 5:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/538 "2022-09-20T17:12:42Z")
I do not know about now with Alpha accounts, but i do believe Lucas is/was correct in that prior to alpha accts. 6.6 of the Eula i believe was used against those that biomassed a character with negative security status instead of fixing it with in game means(both b4 and after security tags were introduced) With an alpha account these days…you stop logging it in and move to the next one if your avoiding Negative Sec Status. ---
**Author:** ![T\_Elliot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/t_elliot/32/453851_2.png) [@T\_Elliot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/T_Elliot)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2022, 5:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/539 "2022-09-20T17:13:30Z")
After over 500 posts in this thread no one has put forth a convincing argument for why suicide ganking needs to be rebalanced. The weirdest argument that I have seen regularly in these posts is that suicide ganking is a product of “forcing values on players with different gameplay styles”. This argument seems to come down to the idea that people should be invulnerable in high sec, and if they want to fit their ships with no tank and auto-pilot or afk mine with ships that have no thought to security, they should be able to without consequences. I can only shrug and say that people can fit ships for maximum mining production or maximum cargo hauling, but not while they are afk-mining or auto-piloting. The EvE universe is a cold, harsh place where terrorists like the Equilibrium of Man come to kill you because God says you should die, or the Blood Raiders kidnap you to use your blood in their vampiric rituals, or worse yet, Sansah slaver come to make you one of their unwilling servants. Why in the galaxy do people think that in a place like this they should be able to afk-mine or auto-pilot in a ship with no tank and everything will be ok? I had a lovely weekend playing eve. I had a bunch of loyalty points accumulated that I turned in for republic fleet cap batteries. I was flying around with almost a billion isk work of cap batteries, going around from the Rens to Hek, to Dodixie, to Jita. No one took a shot at my hauler even once while I divided my goods on the various markets. Weird that for a place as perilous as high-sec I was able to survive the long trip. After putting my blob of capacitor batteries on the various markets I went AFK mining while I grilled some BBQ outside. I just don’t see these cries of how gankers are forcing people to play the game the way gankers want them to are valid. I spend most of my EvE time running missions, hauling stuff around trying to buy low and sell high, or afk mining. The closest thing that high sec gankers have done to force me to play their game is that I fit as big a tank on my barges as I can when I afk mine, I am always hitting d-scan when I am running missions in my marauder when there are people in local I don’t know, or I don’t auto-pilot and always scout if I am going through low-sec, when I am hauling really valuable stuff around. I understand that EvE does not have a learning curve, but a learning cliff. EvE does fail its new bros on a lot of little things, like never teaching about using the d-scan. But this is no different than any other MMO. I had to learn how to kite and root-park by watching other players who were better than me and copying them. If games don’t force players to learn the advanced skills needed to succeed in the game, but instead remove the difficult features so players don’t have to learn new skills, many players never will. That will lead to stagnation and boredom in game play. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2022, 5:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/540 "2022-09-20T17:23:15Z")
I checked again. Indeed, 6.6 could be used against people trying to avoid a grind, more like “creatively used and interpreted” instead of applied. lol. Thanks for the heads up. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2022, 5:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/541 "2022-09-20T17:26:41Z")
Hence the statement “-10 will set you Free!” ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2022, 5:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/542 "2022-09-20T17:31:20Z")
> [@Jesse\_W\_James](#): > > Let me know what you think, as I believe that type of rebalancing will be all we need. My brother in Amarr Jebus, these changes you want would kill the game you purportedly love. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Either way though I’ve been here from pretty close to the beginning so I’ll ride it out to the end. Proving my point. Thankee 😃 > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Ah yes…your sheer pretence that you care _sooo_ much about noobs He also refuses to share the tactics that will keep them from getting ganked 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Seems more like you’ve just been handed a narrative by a particular group of bittervets Huh. Always a conspiracy huh? The only bitter vet here is you brosef LOL. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Yeah OK, you just happen to copy-paste any argument Aiko makes and walk in lock-step with ganker by pure coincidence You realize if you did an ounce of research, you’d see she and Aiko have gone many rounds. But I know how hard it is for you to do actual research 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2022, 5:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/544 "2022-09-20T17:35:47Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > 🤣 🤣 🤣 No genius, the mechanic right now. Ice belts spawn in highsec on a 6 hour timer, however if an ice belt is mined out too quickly that can increase to 11-12 hours i have never seen them take longer than 6, and you said scarcity…not post scarcity…moron. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2022, 5:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/545 "2022-09-20T17:38:37Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > 99% sure that using disposable alpha accounts to get around the negative sec status biomass restriction would count as a violation. i petitioned that along with some friends, it is not violation to simply create slews of ALpha accounts strictly for this purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2022, 5:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/547 "2022-09-20T17:44:34Z")
LOL at the dry snitching again. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2022, 5:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/548 "2022-09-20T17:48:58Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > You keep acting like there are swathes of miners who are waiting for ganking to stop existing so they can jump in and start mining. That’s not the reality. Mining would go up, sure but not to any significant degree and certainly not to any game-breaking levels. You just invent stuff on the fly, as you go, and demand it as fact. It just astonishes me the way you have post after post after post in which _you alone_ are in possession of the grand crystal ball and whatever you see in it is rigid fact. When in reality you don’t actually have a clue…because you’ve never _really_ given any thought to the consequences of your ideas. So whenever challenged, you just make up some pretend future and insist that’s how things would go. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2022, 5:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/550 "2022-09-20T17:50:11Z")
Sure bro. Sure 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2022, 5:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/551 "2022-09-20T17:50:28Z")
During scarcity, the timer was increased to 8 hours , IF and only if the belt respawned in the same system, otherwise it respawned to a totally different Ice system. When scarcity was being ended, the timer was reduced to 6 hrs…in my home area 1 system is consistent with that timer no matter if you wipe the ice belt in 1 hour or less…the other one doenst matter if you are fast or not, its 1st respawn more often does so at 8 hours and rarely at 6. Now as to the 6.6 section of the Eula…i petitioned another thing, about the Air Rewards program…if you dont know about it…then mail me in game and ill tell you about something I think is an exploit but 1 GM and 2 CSM members told me was not an exploit till enough ppl are doing it but it is being watched for reconsideration as one. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2022, 5:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/553 "2022-09-20T17:58:08Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > After over 500 posts in this thread no one has put forth a convincing argument for why suicide ganking does not need to be rebalanced. When’s the last time you saw a demonstration asking for the status quo NOT to be changed…when no official had stated intent to change it anyway ? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2022, 5:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/554 "2022-09-20T17:59:34Z")
Heh, heh the AIr program…has nothing to do with negative status characters. ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2022, 6:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/556 "2022-09-20T18:36:24Z")
CCP have said they’ll address griefing, and, to gankers, ‘you’re safe’. That seems clear, to me. They have it in hand, and I believe the Dev Blog will appear in due course. What possible reason could there be (other than hollow speculation) for submitting a ‘Proposal for Rebalancing of the Suicide Gank’? ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2022, 6:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/557 "2022-09-20T18:45:17Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > The officials have stated an intent to change it. They posted a blog post in which they outright stated that they intend to reduce ganking and make highsec PvP more equitable. No, it was _quite clearly_ stated at fanfest that ‘gankers you are safe’. Those were the words used. You keep on and on lying about this. What CCP did say in the same presentation was that ‘griefing’ was a concern, and the definition of griefing pretty much accords with that which has _already_ been defined in Support articles going back well before fanfest…including those defining the 35 systems in which noobs are ‘protected’. So we can maybe expect more action in actually enforcing this…but nowhere in the fanfest was the goal of ‘reducing ganking’ stated, as per your mis-representation. Oh…and in no part of the presentation did anyone say ’ Hey, we’re going to let Lucas Kell decide what the definition of griefing is’ ---
**Author:** ![T\_Elliot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/t_elliot/32/453851_2.png) [@T\_Elliot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/T_Elliot)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2022, 6:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/558 "2022-09-20T18:49:37Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > After over 500 posts in this thread no one has put forth a convincing argument for why suicide ganking does not need to be rebalanced. > > See, I can just randomly declare that noone has put forward convincing arguments too. Lol, Lucas, are you my evil twin? Or am I your evil twin? Seriously though Lucas, why would ganking need to be removed? It does not negatively affect people who just take a tiny bit of initiative and adapt to the realities of the game. It certainly does not keep people from playing their game as long as they take basic precautions. Removing the challenges from a game is is a quick path to stagnation. Avoiding being ganked is not even that challenging. I frequently do every activity that people fret over and claim cause gankers to charge to you like a mad bull (auto-pilot, afk mine, and do lvl 4 missions in a marauder). I have never been ganked once, because I take simple precautions and common sense. The PvE in EvE is not really very good. Certainly not when compared to most other fantasy MMOs. What EvE has going for it is its niche non-consensual PvP environment. When that is slowly nerfed EvE will not become a widely popular, but will disappear. Your side is the one that is demanding that the game changes to the way you want it, against the desire of a great many here. I have listed several reasons not to remove or seriously change ganking. Since your side is the one that wants to change the game against the wishes of many other players it only seems fair that your side explains why players should put up with the removal of the challenge that they love in the game. ---
**Author:** ![T\_Elliot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/t_elliot/32/453851_2.png) [@T\_Elliot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/T_Elliot)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2022, 7:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/559 "2022-09-20T19:03:49Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > An individual claim that “no convincing argument” has been made is meaningless. It’s a statement of preference, not an indicator that there are no valid and well considered arguments. Well then give me a good argument. I have slugged through innumerable threads like this, and every claim of there being a ganking genocide of players runs counter to my direct experience. I have also never seen any empirical evidence presented that this ganking apocalypses is happening. Almost every argument I hear to remove ganking boils down to “but, but, think of the new bros dude!” Ganking is rare, and it usually happens because someone was lazy and greedy. While I am afk mining or hauling stuff around, I have started watching MacGybo’s videos. I have learned a lot about ganking from his videos. You know where he seems to make his money? It is from newb accounts flying shuttles or corvettes with 100 million + isk cargos. These are not new bros flying to Jita to sell their stack of faction modules, large skill injectors, or plex. These are rich vets who have been out in null sec for a long time, and have gotten lazy. Give me an argument for the need to nerf ganking that is more than “but, but, think of the new bros!” cause I’m not buying that ganking is hurting new bros that much. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2022, 7:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/561 "2022-09-20T19:38:13Z")
![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/c/f/c/cfc22f0873c4ec1cbb46d23672bf42b4b7f8c7a5.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2022, 8:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/562 "2022-09-20T20:16:34Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > a clearer focus on **reducing ganking** to make PvP gameplay in Highsec more equitable and fun for all players This is interesting. It appears to imply that past policies have not addressed the subject of ganking (presumably in Highsec) with the consistency they now feel is required. ‘Equitable’ can only mean - in this context - that CCP believes there is an imbalance in the relationship between the contenders; presumably with the advantage to the ganker. The problem for CCP will lie in making the resulting changes ‘fun for all players’. This will be difficult to achieve for, if players still get ganked under the new system, they will surely continue to cry that the nerfs haven’t gone far enough, because they still lost their ship, or whatever. If CCP has committed to reducing ganking, then I await with interest the results of their labours. I’m not the type to throw a hissy-fit over a video game, but I’ll perhaps devote some time to thinking of other moderately aggressive ways to fill my in-game coffers (and empty my RL ones!). I feel that change is on the way; it’s disappointing, but evidently not to be avoided. Again, let’s see what they come up with first, then let our Emergent Gameplay heroes/heroines fix it for them! ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2022, 8:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/563 "2022-09-20T20:37:18Z")
> [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](#): > > If CCP has committed to reducing ganking, then I await with interest the results of their labours. Yeah, though they also acknowledged it as a hard issue. I suspect it’ll move from the hard basket, to a too hard basket and nothing will be done. Hope that isn’t correct, though if CCP’s track record stays consistent with future development, it’ll be years before they make any change at all, simply because they aren’t good at tackling hard issues. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013.md?page=26) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013.md?page=28)