# Proposal for Rebalancing of the Suicide Gank **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Tags:** high-sec\ **Created:** [June 24, 2022, 9:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013 "2022-06-24T09:28:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 1:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/592 "2022-09-21T01:08:10Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > I can happily _post_ my losses and cockups and **laugh** at them I made a thd about my favorite loss just to try to get others to loosen up. I would have applied to them, but I didn’t think they would trust me after such a loss. Opportunity’s lost… ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 1:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/593 "2022-09-21T01:12:38Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > What you posted was a quote of me stating the objective fact that zkillboard does not class solo ganks as ganks. Go check. That is indeed an objective fact, which we have gone over before in a thread that got closed. Here it is again, the earlier quote: > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > **The numbers that usually show low volumes of new players** tends to be straight ZKB gank stats, as they exclude solo ganks. Now, on to **the total of the available data** : You forget that people like Scipio did not filter on “ganked” in the zkb database when downloading data, but rather **pulled everything regardless of labels** and _then_ tried to come to a conclusion. His conclusion is very clear, it’s the one you failed to quote: "_But otherwise, the only reasonable conclusion appears to be - anyone who claims to know the facts and what the truth is for smaller ships, is talking out their arse ."_ And that, dear correspondent, includes new player ship losses. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 1:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/594 "2022-09-21T01:20:07Z")
The important thing in Eve is not whether you make a mistake…but whether you keep on making the same mistake. Unlike the perpetual cry babies, I regard an initial red killboard as a good kick up the ass and motivation…its only when one gets to 200 red and no blue that one is officially useless. I see miners in Isanamo get ganked twice in the same barge in the space of 30 minutes. Clearly the lessons were not learned the first time. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 1:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/595 "2022-09-21T01:29:14Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > but whether you keep on making the same mistake Hench why my favorite conspiracy theory is the whales keep the game afloat. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 1:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/596 "2022-09-21T01:29:16Z")
From experience, _any_ of my losses of a stealth bomber was a happy loss. And not only after a successful (or not) bomb launch, but for the psychological factor if nothing else. Strike fear into their hearts ! Unfortunately your thread was closed ages ago, or I would post a few of mine 😁 My most memorable one was my first Legion loss, in PvE (yes, it still smarts, and still makes me blush. I was a very young clone in those days). ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 1:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/597 "2022-09-21T01:31:52Z")
> [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > a few of mine Attitude. Some players have it. Others cry. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 1:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/598 "2022-09-21T01:33:14Z")
And we must teach them to dry their tears, learn a few tricks, finally _play the game_ and get on with it. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 1:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/599 "2022-09-21T01:36:07Z")
If it were only that easy. Not the same player base anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 1:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/600 "2022-09-21T01:39:41Z")
> [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > My most memorable one was my first Legion loss, in PvE (yes, it still smarts, and still makes me blush. I was a very young clone in those days). Can’t say I’ve had any major losses, but the most embarrassing one was getting zapped by a Triglavian entropic disintegrator because I was too busy in corp chat as I drifted away from a station. It was like ’ why am I suddenly in a pod ?’ On second thoughts, in keeping with the thread theme, I was severely emotionally disturbed by this and now need therapy and will get Lucas to champion the good fight against distress caused by Triglavians to noob alt accounts. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 1:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/601 "2022-09-21T01:42:31Z")
Not sure. Perhaps if the game would attract players of similar age as it did a decade ago, I don’t think there would be that much difference. The age of a new player these days does seem to be inversely proportional to the chance he/she will make it through the first half year or so, but perhaps most of that comes from the bad conditioning they had from playing contemporary games. But even then, I remember our youngest member in Sev3rance, he was barely 16 and frighteningly good at EvE. Attitude is indeed a thing. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 1:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/602 "2022-09-21T01:46:50Z")
> [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > But even then, I remember our youngest member in Sev3rance, he was barely 16 and frighteningly good at EvE. We had a guy come in at that age. (Yrs ago now) By the time he had to leave for RL, he was good! College, we wished him well! The percentage is growing smaller. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 1:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/603 "2022-09-21T01:51:04Z")
How to deal with fear should be another topic. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 1:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/604 "2022-09-21T01:52:51Z")
Ships are ammo ? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 1:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/605 "2022-09-21T01:58:20Z")
While very true. There should be a less brutal training program! 😆 ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 2:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/606 "2022-09-21T02:15:36Z")
> [@MB\_ThePhotographer](#): > > How to deal with fear should be another topic. I think the day I no longer get the jitters on undocking will be the day I no longer enjoy Eve. This is precisely why ganking and other factors do not need ‘balancing’. Everyone _should_ undock in fear. Everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 2:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/607 "2022-09-21T02:19:43Z")
I usually consider the ship I’m flying already lost and I’m trying to postpone the inevitable… So being able to dock with it again is a happy thing, a reward of sorts, haha. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 2:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/608 "2022-09-21T02:20:24Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Everyone _should_ undock in fear. I would like to see better training, so everyone undocks with confidence. We all lose ships. Better players just lose less. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 2:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/609 "2022-09-21T02:53:21Z")
> [@MB\_ThePhotographer](#): > > better training After thinking about it, I had laugh at myself. You can’t train those who want an award for just showing up. ---
**Author:** ![T\_Elliot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/t_elliot/32/453851_2.png) [@T\_Elliot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/T_Elliot)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 3:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/610 "2022-09-21T03:07:20Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > So then why are so many new players ganked? Why are so many unprofitable ships ganked? How many new players are ganked? Can you give me a number? You talk about a new bro gankpocalypses, but never give me a number. As I have repeatedly mentioned, the new bros that I see ganked are ganked because they are flying shuttles and corvettes with cargos worth hundreds of millions of isk, leading me to conclude that they are not really new bros, but alts of veterans that have gotten lazy. I have said this repeatedly, and you always ignore it. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > And that’s griefing and should be removed from the game. If you’re “mining salt” then you’re trying to get the player behind the character upset so that you can be entertained by it, much like Erotica1 used to do with the bonus room. I don’t think that’s a good thing to keep in the game. Lucas, how do you propose to eliminate smack talk from this game? Good lord, I don’t think that the idea of eliminating high sec combat annoys me as much as the idea of eliminating smack talk. You want to ban anyone who teases, taunts, or calls names? This is a game centered around interstellar warfare, so much so that some call it a “murder simulator”, but we mustn’t taunt someone? I am fine with adding profanity filters, and filtering out racist or sexist slurs, but you’re not even allowed to taunt people in your idealized version of EvE? > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > These are not counters, these are methods of avoidance. Effectively you’re just trying to be a less appealing target than the next guy, you’re not actually engaging in any counterplay. INB4 Gix starts going on one. Lucas, if player A is trying to maneuver someone into a position where they can be attacked, and player B out maneuvers player A, player B has counters player A. This is not an insult, but is English your second language? You seem to have trouble with really basic concepts here. Or are you just trying to use semantic games to baffle me into believing that you have made a clever point. We both know that you haven’t, and it becomes tedious to have to constantly call them out. I gave you a very long list of ways avoid being ganked. Trying to play word games does not invalidate them. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > If someone spend two weeks saving up for their first mining barge, then they immediately lose it, that’s pretty much a two week rollback they have to repeat. Yes, and if someone spends a month saving up enough money to buy a golem, and then spends another month grinding out faction to deck it out with shiny faction gear, and then their golem gets ganked while doing a lvl 4 mission because he never had to learn to d-scan, that player is out two month worth of work, and they have to repeat. Again you seem to feel like you are making a point, but I don’t get it. If I could choose to loose a fifty million isk mining barge, or a three billion isk golem, I know which would be easier to recover from. Lessons learned early are much more valuable than lessons learned late. It is much better for players to learn skills early in the game. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > There’s a difference between getting killed after going through a gate to lowsec and getting killed flying from one career system to another. A lot of the time they won’t learn anything, they will barely know how to fly their ship and they’ll get blown up by some veteran that gains _nothing_ from it. All they learn is that it’s a crappy game filled with griefers. Good lord, how many times are new players with the frigate still fitted with the civilian stuff they got from their mission getting ganked by these evil veterans? It is already a banable offense to shoot new bros in the newbie zones. When is it finally ok to engage with new players? Protecting them from the combative nature of EvE only makes sure that they never learn to protect themselves. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Of course they do. Let’s face it, it doesn’t matter what points anyone raises with you, unless they agree with your preconceived viewpoint then you’ll consider their points ridiculous. CCP have directly stated that ganking newbros leads to player churn yet all of the gankers are in denial of that. Well I would be happy to concede points raised, if they were good points. Your points all just sound like assumptions that run counter to my experienced game play, and run counter to the numbers that I have seen. You are the one that is demanding that the game be dramatically changed in ways that you favor, but I do not. I don’t think that I am unreasonable in requesting more than just your say so on this. You even want to remove smack talk from this game! Forgive me Lucas, but your idealized version of EvE looks very dull and barren with the PC police waiting behind every station to issue fines for cursing or smack talking. You do know that the world portrayed in Demolition Man is an authoritarian dystopia right? It is not one that is going to attract new players to this game. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Veterans going L4s in golems are already safe. You have to be pretty bad at the game to get caught and ganked And how are vets in golems going to be safe from gankers when they never had to learn to use d-scan? I have already heard the dire warnings form PvE specialists that it is too intense to do lvl 4 missions in marauders because of the great ganking menace. Are you sure you’re not just trying to protect people doing missions in high sec who never learned to d-scan? You seem to be determined to stifle the freedom that sand box games desperately need. I hope you to not have CCP’s ear. If CCP makes this sterile conflictless game you want were even taunting is considered griefing and will be stamped out, let alone actual combat, I see a bleak future for EvE. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 5:27am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/611 "2022-09-21T05:27:11Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > If you’re “mining salt” then you’re trying to get the player behind the character upset so that you can be entertained by it, much like Erotica1 used to do with the bonus room. I don’t think that’s a good thing to keep in the game. Oh come off it. If I got smack talked I’d thoroughly _enjoy_ giving smack talk back. There’ll be smack talk carnage in the ‘why was I ganked’ channel if I am ganked…and good witty fun all round. So what if people make fun…nobody can make fun of me better than I can ! [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013.md?page=28) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013.md?page=30)