# Proposal for Rebalancing of the Suicide Gank **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Tags:** high-sec\ **Created:** [June 24, 2022, 9:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013 "2022-06-24T09:28:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Shipwreck\_Jones](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shipwreck_jones/32/274382_2.png) [@Shipwreck\_Jones](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shipwreck_Jones)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 10:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/41 "2022-06-24T22:42:07Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > I liked your post for the high level of analysis of the issues, the detail on the Catalyst was spot on as were many of your other observations. You are also correctly focussing on the balance issues of ganking as it is now and you really did a great job. CCP would be wise to look at this and open their eyes a bit. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/5/0/2/50253ed08939ffaf455ad04fbf367fd13b426ecf.png) During WWII the U.S. Navy conducted a study to try to figure out the best place to armor planes in order to minimize the number that got shot down. So they looked at all the bullet holes in returning aircraft, and got this diagram. Some people figured that they should armor the planes where there were all the red dots, because that’s where the planes were getting shot. Abraham Wald disagreed. See, he figured that what they were looking at was all the places a plane could get shot and still make it back. Thus, they needed to armor all the places where there were no bullet holes. This is an example of what’s known as the survivorship bias. It’s a logical error of concentrating on the things that made it past some selection process, while overlooking those that did not, which can lead to incorrect conclusions. ![fig-2](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/3/4/9/3499bacbf6570750fafed9fa49bdaef6005b21ba.png) So, let me ask you? What exactly does this chart prove? Because it certainly doesn’t prove that “the cost-effectiveness of Ganker [sic] is extremely unbalanced and there is room for rectification.” - He picked 3 types of fits, while making no mention of what classifies as one of those fits, or why he chose them. - He’s looking only at ships that were ganked, which means his data is subject to the survivorship bias. - His chart fails to account for failed ganks, lost ships to anti-ganker activity, lost haulers (depending on the looting strat used), and failures to secure the loot drop. - Bonus points for making a mistake in thinking that alphas can use large T2 guns. - Bonus points for pulling his damage numbers out of his ass. Interestingly, they weren’t too high, but too low. And that was even when I tried assuming that he was basing his damage calculations off of what an alpha can do. So, I have no idea where he got his numbers from. I dunno, perhaps he assumed there was no concord pull? Whatever, I’m not going to spend the next hour trying to figure out what he did. - And then, on top of all of that, he just straight up made a leap of logic in order to get to where he wanted to go. And these are just the problems I’ve found with one chart and it’s accompanying analysis. **His observations were far from spot on, and his analysis is most certainly not proof that ganking needs to be nerfed. What his post is, however, is grade A misinformation. It gives the appearance of being a logical argument, and the fact that it falls apart under scrutiny is irrelevant, because it will still be effective. And if you want proof of that, look no further than yourself.** ![Confirmation Bias](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/1/1/2/112aa7e4ced875c4c5a7a6f3fa4a7e48b7337d77.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Moko\_Musana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/moko_musana/32/373694_2.png) [@Moko\_Musana](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Moko_Musana)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 10:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/42 "2022-06-24T22:46:24Z")
The solution to suicide ganking would be a flashing-red filament. It’ll drop you and your fleet within 30km of concentrations of criminals in high or lowsec for the filamenters to farm killmails. It would also boost sales, because the criminals will die quickly to concord and you waste the filament and a 15 minute filament window if you don’t have enough alts to eye on empire space locals for lots of players suddenly turning red, and your filament fleet isn’t on hotdrop standby permanently. ---
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 10:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/43 "2022-06-24T22:54:10Z")
This flashing-red filament does seem to swing in favour to the gankers on that _see-saw_ rebalance. As that sort of filament could be used to move fleets of gankers into the system and bypassing many hurdles of hauling fitted ships for future ganking purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Moko\_Musana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/moko_musana/32/373694_2.png) [@Moko\_Musana](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Moko_Musana)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2022, 11:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/44 "2022-06-24T23:42:58Z")
> [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](#): > > As that sort of filament could be used to move fleets of gankers into the system and bypassing many hurdles of hauling fitted ships for future ganking purpose. It indeed has that potential, but it also has the potential to drop you into a different highsec you didn’t want to go because someone else was also ganking at the same time > [@Beatlise](#): > > ![fig-1](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/f/6/3/f63d44f6dc3f283abc757903da585e8413f12b21.png) Is HAM caracal a popular ganking doctrine? I had considered it myself before, but scrapped the idea over more cost efficient fits with other ships. Your listing is missing the dirt-cheap [thrashers](https://zkillboard.com/kill/101680978/) and the pretty cheap [ruptures](https://zkillboard.com/kill/101690275/). ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2022, 6:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/45 "2022-06-25T06:42:17Z")
> [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > During WWII the U.S. Navy conducted a study to try to figure out the best place to armor planes in order to minimize the number that got shot down. So they looked at all the bullet holes in returning aircraft, and got this diagram. Some people figured that they should armor the planes where there were all the red dots, because that’s where the planes were getting shot. Abraham Wald disagreed. See, he figured that what they were looking at was all the places a plane could get shot and still make it back. Thus, they needed to armor all the places where there were no bullet holes. I am well aware of this one, they needed to analyse the planes that were shot down, but could not. > [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > So, let me ask you? What exactly does this chart prove? Because it certainly doesn’t prove that “the cost-effectiveness of Ganker [sic] is extremely unbalanced and there is room for rectification.” That chart was additional data, but I thought the cost per DPS was an interesting one if allied to the Alpha question he raised. But in terms of that graph you selected I worked out exactly what he was getting at, and you just went off on wild emotive tangents, not even focussing on the graph you re-posted. It was a decent sample: Defensive freighter likely bulkhead fit, but the EHP was low for a triple bulkhead. So maybe an average freighter with one or two bulkheads and one cargo expander? Mission fit Golem is all reps and not buffer, easy that one, Travel fit vindi is all buffer. So that was relevant to the number of characters required and the cost of gank, simple stuff. You developed your own confirmation bias… and went off on other tangents with your bullet points, normally you do a better job then this. > [@Moko\_Musana](#): > > Your listing is missing the dirt-cheap [thrashers](https://zkillboard.com/kill/101680978/) and the pretty cheap [ruptures](https://zkillboard.com/kill/101690275/). He was focussing on the brute force DPS part of a gank, we all know Ruptures are used to gank T1 haulers in the main…, and while Thrashers are used for massed ganks they are used for situational reasons. I hope that helps in your deliberations. Just replied in passing, carry on. ---
**Author:** ![Skyla\_Amarr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/skyla_amarr/32/392813_2.png) [@Skyla\_Amarr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Skyla_Amarr)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2022, 11:21am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/46 "2022-06-25T11:21:01Z")
How the fk do peeps even have the energy for thread #9999999999999999 of ganking?. I got bored at thread #9999999999999991. ---
**Author:** ![ResonanceOfWar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/resonanceofwar/32/408654_2.png) [@ResonanceOfWar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ResonanceOfWar)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2022, 11:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/47 "2022-06-25T11:31:43Z")
Becuase they want to afk farm in peace and then quit in 2 months when they are bored. ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2022, 12:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/48 "2022-06-25T12:05:40Z")
> [@Skyla\_Amarr](#): > > How the fk do peeps even have the energy for thread #9999999999999999 of ganking? Hi Skyla. Many of the anti-ganking posters in such threads seem to believe that having the right to speak imposes upon them a _duty_ to do so. As far as ganking is concerned, everything relevant has already been said, many times over - yet, still they type. And of course, we gankers still respond. Well, some of us; I’ve grown weary of most of it. Even in other games which include some form of ganking, it remains a hot topic, fought over quite bitterly in some instances. This occurs because of the tribal nature of some humans, and the exploitation of the same, by developers. Nothing unusual or noteworthy there. The energy for such diversions comes no doubt from a mutual enjoyment of conflict, however well-disguised. And here, I’m afraid, my energy gives out… ---
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2022, 5:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/49 "2022-06-25T17:53:35Z")
> [@Moko\_Musana](#): > > It indeed has that potential, but it also has the potential to drop you into a different highsec you didn’t want to go because someone else was also ganking at the same time Okay so wouldn’t the _gank_ had already to have happened or in the progress of happening? That sort of in-game intel could bring a est. isk value of said _flashing-red filament_ to protentually be greater than the ship being ganked. The only positive _thing I could think of_ knowing of such is when chasing high value targets such as a frozen corpse of known princesses. Once obtained and forever to be referred to as being my **Heroine of Highsec Ice Maiden** I would sell may wares to pay for such a flashing-red filament. ---
**Author:** ![Shipwreck\_Jones](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shipwreck_jones/32/274382_2.png) [@Shipwreck\_Jones](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shipwreck_Jones)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2022, 9:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/50 "2022-06-25T21:10:27Z")
![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/1/5/5/155b2344c444348707162df6006bc4effcc89deb.jpeg) ##### Page 750 of the old, old C&P section -approximately a year and a half after the full release of Eve. I spent a couple of hours browsing through the C&P section of the old, old forums while working on my next video. When the forums first when live, there was a huge player debate over whether or not things like player killing, scamming, and theft should be a part of the game… and then it petered out. Naturally, the whine threads never completely stopped, but the matter seemed to have been settled at some point, and the typical thread changed from debates over what type of game Eve should be, to recruitment, questions, stories, and sharing salty interactions. I don’t know if CCP was at all influenced by the bickering that went on, but the player base seemed to have considered the debate settled –Eve was a hardcore, always on PvP game. And, if you didn’t like it, you could go play WoW. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/d/a/d/dadd8d10f459faed1ddd4c09410f62baf2fb4b21.jpeg) This is what the crime and punishment sections of the forums look like today. I can’t tell you exactly when it happened, but the matter has been unsettled –the debate reopened. The battle for the soul of Eve Online rages once again. And even non gankers should care what happens to it. Because these guys will not stop with us. Hell they are already calling for “fixes” to other forms of player killing and scamming. So, do you think that all of this is just going to go away if ganking gets nuked, or do you think that it will embolden them while leading to fewer people in the game trying to push back against them? ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/3/a/0/3a06d32c2092b913d11c3aa8e45f662fa48bd183.jpeg) Sigh. I’m currently trying to make a video about ganking, the fight to nuke it, and [The Great PvP Debate](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheGreatPlayerVersusPlayerDebate). I’m hoping that it will debunk and pre-bunk some of the misinformation and nerf-ganking arguments floating around, and lead to fewer newbros being set up for frustration and failure, fewer blame shifters, and fewer people thinking that the best thing for Eve is that it move away from being a challenging, always on PvP game. But, I seriously doubt it will be enough at this point. I don’t know if you noticed or not, but we are severely outnumbered here. You think things are bad on the forums? Go check out a nerf ganking thread on r/Eve. Hell, if it weren’t for likeminded people on the forums, I’d probably be completely demoralized, and would have just given up and walked away. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/d/5/4/d54335f973c92cd4d110dfd5c5cb7303ee25d535.jpeg) I do think, however, that there is a chance to save Eve. There are people inside and outside of Eve who like challenging UPvP games, and I’m willing to bet that there are a ton of newbros who could love Eve for it is. One of the problems, however, is that there are a ton of dipshits out there who are effectively setting newbros up for failure and frustration. For example, anti-UPvP blameshifters that are drilling it into newbro heads that the game is unfair, teaching them to respond to adversity by whining, and instilling in them a strong **external** locus of control. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/8/f/f/8ffcf3336f0114ed67bfad0a033f001e8b3ef521.jpeg) And, yes these unintentional newbro saboteurs exist, and yes newbros do listen to them. Why wouldn’t they? They don’t have the knowledge or experience to know better, they haven’t heard the counter arguments, and here’s this older player, often in a position of power, telling them that game is unfair and failing to teach them how to get better outcomes. So, when things don’t pan out for them, it just confirms all the crap the inadvertent saboteur said. Crap. I think I know what I need to do next, but have been reluctant to do so because of the time commitment involved. I’m hoping I can find the time later this year, because I have to try. If I try and fail, I will be disappointed. But I can’t do nothing, watch the game go down the toilet, and then wonder what could have been. ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2022, 9:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/51 "2022-06-25T21:51:12Z")
Thank you SJ for (yet again) saying what needs to be said. You have a video in the pipeline _and_ a challenging project for later in the year? Good! I used to do a fair amount, so I know just how much work is involved. But I loved it, I really did. I was looking at the old minerbumping site earlier today, and particularly at the Art Links page. What a mountain of stuff was produced by the gankers and supporters! Yes, we’re outnumbered here on the Forum, but it won’t matter until we’re outnumbered at Bjargargata 1, Reykjavik. Then it’ll certainly be time to put the Cats to sleep! We may well lose out in the end. If we do, it won’t be because we didn’t _try_ to maintain the edginess which we believe to be EVE’s unique contribution to the world of gaming. I appreciate all your contributions, SJ. ---
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2022, 10:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/52 "2022-06-25T22:37:14Z")
They keep changing the goal posts so why can’t we change our point of view on the whole suicide gank. @ [Shipwreck Jones](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shipwreck_Jones) Very impressive research you did there, a few pilots stand out though my attention focused on [Annie Oakley] firstly due to the topic on that 2004 forum and second to try to supply a answer to that question, When did things start to change? I will throw my guess onto it and say 2017. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2022, 10:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/53 "2022-06-25T22:52:02Z")
> [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](#): > > When did things start to change? I will throw my guess onto it and say 2017. Around 2010-2012. ---
**Author:** ![Shipwreck\_Jones](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shipwreck_jones/32/274382_2.png) [@Shipwreck\_Jones](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shipwreck_Jones)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2022, 11:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/54 "2022-06-25T23:21:53Z")
Well, the roots of what is happening today might very well go back that far, but this huge push to turn Eve into a kiddy pool of a game is more recent. Like, if you go back to the old forums around 2017, you can see people complaining about Eve becoming too safe. But the C&P section of the forums hadn’t yet devolved into an avalanche of nerf-my-enemies/get-rid-of-UPvP posts yet. > **[Crime & Punishment - EVE Online Forums](https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/forum/252/)** > > EVE allows you to discover, explore and dominate an amazing science fiction universe while you fight, trade, form corporations and alliances with other players. The turn for the worse has definitely been more recent. But, what I really want to know is: 1. Can something be done about it? 2. And, if so, what? Also, I forgot to link the nerf ganking megathread earlier. So, I’m going to go ahead and do so now. > [@Nerf Ganking Megathread](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004): > > Okay. Someone proposes a nerf to suicide ganking (or getting rid of it entirely) about twice a month. Rather than keep saying the same things over and over again, I figured I’d just create a catch all thread. > > > **Myth: Suicide ganking is unbalanced in favor of the gankers.** > > > > False. It is unbalanced, but actually in favor of prey. In fact, game mechanics stack the deck so heavily against suicide ganking, that sustainable ganking is entirely dependent on prey making at least one mistake, if not mor… ---
**Author:** ![QuakeGod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quakegod/32/480339_2.png) [@QuakeGod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/QuakeGod)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2022, 11:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/55 "2022-06-25T23:31:33Z")
People still whining about ganking? It’s been almost 20 years. It’s not going away… ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2022, 11:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/56 "2022-06-25T23:40:59Z")
> [@Shipwreck\_Jones](#): > > Well, the roots of what is happening today might very well go back that far, but this huge push to turn Eve into a kiddy pool of a game is more recent. Like, if you go back to the old forums around 2017, you can see people complaining about Eve becoming too safe. But the C&P section of the forums hadn’t yet devolved into an avalanche of nerf-my-enemies/get-rid-of-UPvP posts yet. Trust me, it was around 2010-2012. ---
**Author:** ![Skyla\_Amarr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/skyla_amarr/32/392813_2.png) [@Skyla\_Amarr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Skyla_Amarr)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2022, 12:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/57 "2022-06-26T00:03:06Z")
So what you’re saying is that you want the game to die. ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2022, 1:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/58 "2022-06-26T01:51:17Z")
> [@Beatlise](#): > > Forcing values on players with different gameplay styles Why are you forcing your gameplay style upon me by proposing a nerf to ganking? ---
**Author:** ![Skyla\_Amarr](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/skyla_amarr/32/392813_2.png) [@Skyla\_Amarr](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Skyla_Amarr)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2022, 2:00am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/59 "2022-06-26T02:00:55Z")
So what you’re saying is that Gankers should be able to ohk anything? ---
**Author:** ![Shipwreck\_Jones](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shipwreck_jones/32/274382_2.png) [@Shipwreck\_Jones](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shipwreck_Jones)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2022, 2:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/60 "2022-06-26T02:08:16Z")
My game play doesn’t interfere with anyone else’s ability to have fun. Yours does. That’s why I am proposing permanent green safeties for high sec. Cheesus. Don’t be so selfish and entitled. If I start playing a challenging UPvP game, and don’t want challenge nor UPvP, the devs should change the fundamental nature of the game to cater to my particular desires. Now to delegitimize ganking as play style… let’s see… - Ganking is not “real” PvP - Gankers are inherently griefers - Ganking is tantamount to cyberbullying - Ganking is driving newbros away (no, I don’t care that CCP said this wasn’t a problem; I’m going to keep saying it anyway) - Ganking is ruining CCP’s bottom line [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013.md?page=4)