# Proposal for Rebalancing of the Suicide Gank **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Tags:** high-sec\ **Created:** [June 24, 2022, 9:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013 "2022-06-24T09:28:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 30
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 6:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/612 "2022-09-21T06:09:29Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Io is the guy claiming Scipios stats declared all gankees to be veterans. Dude that’s exactly the opposite of what I’m saying. The day 1 pilots are all newbies, the 12 month olds are newbies, the 10 year old pilots are newbies, their grandmother’s are newbies, so are their grandkids. Even moreso, the day 2 pilots are also all newbies, so are the newbies, and so are the actual veterans. I managed to pry the post from the cold dead hands of the [Megathread](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/9216). We have a problem Lucas. That analysis of his, even assuming all day 1 pilots are newbies, and assuming everyone under a year old is a newbie, still results in 70% of people that are gank victims being non-newbie. And 1 year is a long time playing a video game. That’s a lot of conservative assumptions that help us. Unfortunately, that’s not enough, and that’s a problem for us. We can’t keep claiming “a majority of gank victims are newbies” or “an overwhelming problem is newbie ganking” with these numbers. It’s worse to have these bad numbers. We would rather there be no numbers at all. Worse still, people might be lulled into making conclusions that are different than us because of these numbers! That’s why we should instead change tack. We could claim that the numbers are bunk, that the analysis is flawed and come up with 5 or so reasons why no one should listen to those numbers that don’t support our crusade. But instead I think what we should do is simply ignore it. Never mention Scipio’s analysis showing newbie toons are 30% or less of gank victims. And pretend it doesn’t exist. So I’m going to do that starting now. From now on, I won’t ever talk about how that analysis shows newbie ganking is a minority problem and is a problem for our worldview. You should also join me in not ever acknowledging that study exists. You know, the one that shows newbie ganking is a minority problem. Mum’s the word. Let’s never speak of the study that shows newbie ganking is a minority problem again. That way when we keep making our claims, we can just keep being honest and say everyone is just spewing an opinion, except us, being objective factual paragons. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 9:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/616 "2022-09-21T09:37:26Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > He’s also stated he’s only here for entertainment in the responses he reads, so to be quite frank its an utter waste of time replying to him. > > He has literally admitted to trolling these threads and people are feeding him. Oh I know. Its funny for me tho. Also think about it. Just think. He’s a grown man and acts like this. He deserves all the pity really 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > This game is entertainment, that’s all. It’s not a career. Yet you can’t muster up the willpower to quit, even tho you find it boring. Huh. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Of course I can’t give you an exact number, but it’s enough for CCP to pay attention and there absolutely are loads of ganks that are in unprofitable ships that very well could be new players. “Very well” ROFL. You know they ain’t bruv 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > It’s always fine to “engage” with them So you agree once they step out of the newb zone, they are fair game. Thankee 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 10:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/617 "2022-09-21T10:38:49Z")
Ive also asked him directly not to reply to me and he continues. ![Screenshot_20220921_113708](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/9/e/b/9ebe2d49fa6cc0886df682cfbb87607791bb6a7a.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 10:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/618 "2022-09-21T10:51:22Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > So to be clear, you start foaming at the mouth screaming “THE GAME WILL DIE!!!” when people talk about removing ganking to make the game more entertaining and less punishing for newbies, and somehow you think I’m the one taking it too seriously? > > This game is entertainment, that’s all. It’s not a career Hey…_.you’re_ the one so obsessed with it all that many have noticed how you are typing a response _literally within seconds_ of anyone posting. For a game that you don’t take too seriously you are on here 24/7 waiting to instantly respond. Either that or you’re an AI bot demonstrating at least the ‘artificial’ bit. ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 10:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/619 "2022-09-21T10:55:11Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > dynamically adjust the security status of capsuleers based on age and experience Having the effect of WoW zones where you are forced into higher zones to level. But guess what, the high level toons still come to the low level zones to use the lowbies for target practice. ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 10:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/620 "2022-09-21T10:59:31Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > This game is entertainment, that’s all Casual Gamers , I dunno. ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 11:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/622 "2022-09-21T11:42:51Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > > [@Io\_Koval](#): > > > > But instead I think what we should do is simply ignore it. Never mention Scipio’s analysis showing newbie toons are 30% or less of gank victims. > > Scipios analysis of a single alliance, yes. Excellent work! We are now equipped to dismiss these numbers anytime they are brought up in conversation, and anyone who would use them to influence their own thinking is clearly illogical for focusing on the data from a single alliance known for ~~ganking~~ griefing. What a bunch of pesky people. > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > For a game that you don’t take too seriously you are on here 24/7 waiting to instantly respond. There’s so many of you pro-gankers heads out there that the few people like me have push notifications enabled, so that we are on call 24/7 to reply and make sure we can just make sure to keep getting the word out every other post. We gotta alarm clock in to the forums so that we can evangelize the anti-ganking message every other post, even if it’s not the main topic, regardless if we’re treading old ground. That way we have equal visibility against larger numbers of forum no-lifers that have copious amounts of time to spend spreading pro-ganking propaganda. ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 11:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/624 "2022-09-21T11:52:43Z")
Dude, ya need to chill. We are on the same team, against ganking and trying to get it completely nuked from the game. If you have a problem with that, you can get in line behind all the other gankers. Trying to cause a divide in the anti-ganking community is not productive. I too only comment on the topics I am interested in and I go beyond striving and actually achieve being reasonable, rational, and objective. ---
**Author:** ![T\_Elliot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/t_elliot/32/453851_2.png) [@T\_Elliot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/T_Elliot)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 12:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/625 "2022-09-21T12:28:55Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > No, but thanks for the strawman. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > And that’s griefing and should be removed from the game. If you’re “mining salt” then you’re trying to get the player behind the character upset so that you can be entertained by it, much like Erotica1 used to do with the bonus room. I don’t think that’s a good thing to keep in the game. Taunting people and smack is griefing, and must be stamped out. But it is a strawman that I want to stamp out smacktalk and taunting people. Slavery is Freedom. War is Peace. Removing playstyles of others is justice. Limiting content is empowering. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 12:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/626 "2022-09-21T12:47:37Z")
Wow, the Ganker Shrills are on to the last chance sarcastic ridicule of Lucas, after trying very ineffective name calling. He totally wiped the floor with the lot of you, showing the following as it is just so spot on: > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Loving the sarcasm. It might land if there weren’t countless pro-ganking folks who spend every waking moment lobbing insults at anyone that says anything they disagree with. I comment on topics I’m interested in and I strive to be reasonable, rational and objective. Lucas Kell nuked this subject, with cold hard logic, over and out. And those haunting the thead might have seen Lucas and I typing at the same time, just saying… ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 1:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/628 "2022-09-21T13:04:33Z")
Yeah, you tell 'em, Dracvlad! ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 1:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/629 "2022-09-21T13:04:46Z")
> [@Io\_Koval](#): > > But instead I think what we should do is simply ignore it. Never mention Scipio’s analysis showing newbie toons are 30% or less of gank victims. And pretend it doesn’t exist. So I’m going to do that starting now. From now on, I won’t ever talk about how that analysis shows newbie ganking is a minority problem and is a problem for our worldview. You should also join me in not ever acknowledging that study exists. You know, the one that shows newbie ganking is a minority problem. Mum’s the word. Let’s never speak of the study that shows newbie ganking is a minority problem again. The thing is, you really don’t even need Scipio’s report in order to get data. Having been in the Why Was I Ganked channel for several months now, I can clearly see with my own eyes that _most_ of the gankees are older players. _Most_ of the taunting is for high value losses…hundreds of millions or figures over a billion. Oh, and Lucas might wish to notice that ganking of noobs is even part of one of the _adverts_ for Eve ! [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/5/4/1/5419351bb0c48bcd16e32d449c925dca4a0e9315.jpeg "EVE Online | Soldiers of Fortune, Gods of the Battlefield") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUKE9ow-wKo) ---
**Author:** ![T\_Elliot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/t_elliot/32/453851_2.png) [@T\_Elliot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/T_Elliot)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 1:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/630 "2022-09-21T13:09:19Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > The strawman is your claim that I want smacktalk to be removed. I don’t, but there’s a significant difference between smacktalk and deliberately going out of your way to harass a target into reacting negatively so you can post it on your blog and laugh about it with your little mates. Lucas, you quoted me when I was talking about not adding salt to smack talking, and you said that that was griefing, and needed to be eliminated. I directly quoted you. It is so tedious to read your arguments, then watch you go back on what you just said and say that you never said it. There is no point in discussing things if you are always going to be this disingenuous. (edited to add a “you” to be as specific as possible to eliminate any chance for innocent confusion) ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 1:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/631 "2022-09-21T13:10:54Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > The thing is, you really don’t even need Scipio’s report in order to get data. Having been in the Why Was I Ganked channel for several months now, I can clearly see with my own eyes that _most_ of the gankees are older players. _Most_ of the taunting is for high value losses…hundreds of millions or figures over a billion. No, you don’t understand, it is always clearly a newbie with a deep credit card that didn’t know what they were doing. Every. Single. One. Unquestionably! These are the kinds of players CCP needs to keep the game afloat because all those ganked alpha alts aren’t paying for 💩. Also you visually misinterpreted the advertisement. Those are clearly NPC ships being shot by the player and you may want to get your eyes checked since clearly you don’t read anything we write with our cold. Hard. Facts. Boom, dunked! Next. ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 1:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/633 "2022-09-21T13:16:11Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > And those haunting the thead might have seen Lucas and I typing at the same time, just saying… > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > They’ll definitely still believe we’re alts Yes, because opening a reply box on two separate accounts is a difficult thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![Buggs\_LeRoach](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/buggs_leroach/32/376676_2.png) [@Buggs\_LeRoach](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Buggs_LeRoach)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 1:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/635 "2022-09-21T13:48:30Z")
pity these threads quickly devolve into a series of personal attacks by the same few players , none of whom are trying to find a middle-ground . so much bs. from both sides , starting with the OP . a day-one alpha can fly a void cata , but the damage stats given are for a max-skilled omega … the crap gets deeper and the real issue is not addressed at all . it’s important to draw a distinction between a vet flying a freighter and a new player in a venture . i have no pity for people flying billions through uedama who die to an organized gank , or those foolish enough to get baited while flying an expensive pve fit . but new players can’t understand why someone sacrifices 2kk + cata to kill a noob-fit venture , and it’s frustrating . the solution is to treat new players as an asset , not as content . education and a little help would go a long way to help with player retention . no game mechanics need to be changed imo , although kill-rights giving a weapons timer is a really good idea . 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Zaera\_Keena](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zaera_keena/32/449938_2.png) [@Zaera\_Keena](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zaera_Keena)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 2:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/637 "2022-09-21T14:15:18Z")
> [@Io\_Koval](#): > > We are on the same team, against PvP and trying to get it completely nuked from the game Strange person ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 2:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/638 "2022-09-21T14:42:17Z")
I never said that. It’s not my fault if you misunderstand something that was said. ---
**Author:** ![Melicien\_Tetro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/melicien_tetro/32/460693_2.png) [@Melicien\_Tetro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Melicien_Tetro)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 3:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/639 "2022-09-21T15:04:24Z")
Safety red being an omega feature is honestly soooooo smart. ---
**Author:** ![Savirova\_Funaila](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/savirova_funaila/32/335266_2.png) [@Savirova\_Funaila](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Savirova_Funaila)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 3:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/640 "2022-09-21T15:29:20Z")
FYI None of the new NPE AIR missions send you to lowsec. I have done them all (all races) on different toons and they are all basically the same. (I recall a while back there was a mission that sent you to lowsec but not in the recent iteration of the NPE (unless there is random one in there) [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013.md?page=29) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013.md?page=31)