# Proposal for Rebalancing of the Suicide Gank **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Tags:** high-sec\ **Created:** [June 24, 2022, 9:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013 "2022-06-24T09:28:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 33
**Author:** ![Ferdiad\_Silver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ferdiad_silver/32/331325_2.png) [@Ferdiad\_Silver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ferdiad_Silver)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2022, 12:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/700 "2022-09-22T12:20:56Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > > [@Ferdiad\_Silver](#): > > > > The highlights were > > Sure, if you want to wildly misrepresent then those are the highlights. Aside from the posts you deleted it’s actually all there for him to read and see it’s not wildly miss-represented. ---
**Author:** ![MacGybo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/macgybo/32/409494_2.png) [@MacGybo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MacGybo)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2022, 12:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/702 "2022-09-22T12:43:12Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I think the core issue is with the farming of new players for KB stats. It’s all relative. For me, the core issue is that nobody is flying skill injectors in Corvettes anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Ferdiad\_Silver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ferdiad_silver/32/331325_2.png) [@Ferdiad\_Silver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ferdiad_Silver)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2022, 12:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/703 "2022-09-22T12:44:46Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > > [@Ferdiad\_Silver](#): > > > > -the loudest nerf ganking voice openly admitted to griefing new players himself and was a ganker in the past > > I have ganked in the past, that’s never been hidden. At no point did I grief new players though and in that threat I specifically stated that it was in part the push by other gankers to engage in griefing that made me stop. I specifically asked you to confirm that you had ganked a new player in a rookie system and you confirmed it. This is the only kind of griefing related to ganking currently acknowledged by CCP and you did it. Also other people have quoted your response to me asking you to confirm that so even if you go back and delete your original post it’s there. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > This is misrepresenting CCP. They weren’t just reiterating what is currently griefing, they were reframing what some of ganking is as griefing and saying it needed to be addressed. If it was just restating the EULA then there’s nothing that needs to be addressed as anyone engaged in EULA breaking griefing will just be banned. No this is a re-iteration of something that has never been acceptable. Currently the only known acknowledgement of new players is the rookie systems. So this is nothing more than a re-iteration unless new evidence comes forth from CCP. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > And to be completely clear, I’d be more than happy for ganking to be changed to tackle _just this type of ganking_. While it is true that I think ganking as a whole does more bad for the gam than it does good - particularly in attracting players - I think the core issue is with the farming of new players for KB stats. I refer you to the multiple times in the thread where you overtly state that you think ganking should be removed from the game all together. It’s great if you’ve found some moderation since the closure of that thread but that doesn’t make those highlights a miss representation. ---
**Author:** ![MacGybo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/macgybo/32/409494_2.png) [@MacGybo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MacGybo)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2022, 12:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/705 "2022-09-22T12:53:19Z")
Kids, please. You’re dirtying up my thread. I don’t want to reopen old wounds or inflame forum disagreements. I’m just pointing out that you don’t need CCP to change a single thing to avoid being ganked. The solution is to educate yourself and you’ll be just fine. ---
**Author:** ![MacGybo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/macgybo/32/409494_2.png) [@MacGybo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MacGybo)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2022, 12:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/707 "2022-09-22T12:54:45Z")
Ssssh. Be nice. ---
**Author:** ![Ferdiad\_Silver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ferdiad_silver/32/331325_2.png) [@Ferdiad\_Silver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ferdiad_Silver)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2022, 12:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/708 "2022-09-22T12:56:27Z")
This thread was a foregone conclusion the minute you opened it and spoke positively about ganking. Sorry to say. Sweet of you to call me a kid but alas based on watching your vids I’m about a decade your senior or more. I’m more of a cantankerous old fart. > [@Ferdiad\_Silver](#): > > Saying the word summons him a bit like a djinn. > [@MacGybo](#): > > Ssssh. Be nice. Not intended to be mean it’s a pretty factual statement. Have a read of all those many threads calling for ccp to nerf stuff. ---
**Author:** ![MacGybo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/macgybo/32/409494_2.png) [@MacGybo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MacGybo)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2022, 12:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/711 "2022-09-22T12:59:46Z")
Why you talking about new players? I’m not talking about new players. ---
**Author:** ![MacGybo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/macgybo/32/409494_2.png) [@MacGybo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MacGybo)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2022, 1:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/713 "2022-09-22T13:06:43Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > CCPs view appears to be that new player ganking creates churn and that it needs to be addressed, as pointed out in their video and in their blog post where they state their intent to reduce ganking. Hi Lucas. For the purposes of clarity, whenever you see me talking about ganking, I don’t mean shooting new miners. I don’t mean doing what SAFETY do. I’m not even going to be drawn into discussions about what they do. I’m only talking about shooting high value targets. Small ships with large cargos. Bling piñatas. Large skill injectors being shipped in cardboard boxes. Things that go pop and make me rich. I understand that you have an issue with new players being popped and player retention. But that doesn’t belong in this thread. You’re talking about the other ganking. The one I don’t do. ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2022, 1:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/714 "2022-09-22T13:07:55Z")
> [@Ferdiad\_Silver](#): > > Staying out of the ganking debate… Then in the same post… > [@Ferdiad\_Silver](#): > > However… 😏 ---
**Author:** ![Ferdiad\_Silver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ferdiad_silver/32/331325_2.png) [@Ferdiad\_Silver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ferdiad_Silver)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2022, 1:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/716 "2022-09-22T13:15:20Z")
Continuing the discussion from [Nerf Ganking Megathread](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/8462): > [@Nerf Ganking Megathread](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/nerf-ganking-megathread/299004/8462): > > You can assume what you want. I have had direct involvement in ganking, solo, multibox and fleet. I’ve even had a character that used to join in the popping new players, but pulled the rip cord pretty damn quick when I saw it was just being used as an excuse to harass targets. I even signed on with miniluv for a short while and was screamed and then purged when I dared to speak out publicly against griefing. Hopefully that worked I’m not really clear on how to transfer quotes from other threads. The only defenition of new players is players within the protected systems and you took part in popping them, therefore griefing them. ---
**Author:** ![Ferdiad\_Silver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ferdiad_silver/32/331325_2.png) [@Ferdiad\_Silver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ferdiad_Silver)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2022, 1:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/717 "2022-09-22T13:16:24Z")
Classic Ax’l quoting out of context. Ironically, you are absolutely right, it didn’t take me long to get pulled back into the discussion. ---
**Author:** ![MacGybo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/macgybo/32/409494_2.png) [@MacGybo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MacGybo)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2022, 1:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/718 "2022-09-22T13:17:31Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Then… So, with the clarification, are you happy to accept that no changes are required? ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2022, 1:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/719 "2022-09-22T13:20:03Z")
> [@Ferdiad\_Silver](#): > > Classic Ax’l quoting out of context. Then in the same post > [@Ferdiad\_Silver](#): > > Ironically, you are absolutely right, Goes to show that I don’t quote out of context, eh? 😏 ---
**Author:** ![Ferdiad\_Silver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ferdiad_silver/32/331325_2.png) [@Ferdiad\_Silver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ferdiad_Silver)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2022, 1:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/720 "2022-09-22T13:21:14Z")
> [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](#): > > Goes to show that I don’t quote out of context, eh? The however was nothing to do with ganking that’s all. Don’t get upset, just a little light hearted ribbing of a self confessed troll. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2022, 1:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/721 "2022-09-22T13:34:58Z")
MacGybo, I respect your videos, your chill attitude, and your contributions above and beyond just playing the game. Even when I disagree with you on ultimately trivial points. So please understand when I piggy back off Ferdiad: You are far better served continuing to pursue your own creative path, and not having your time sunk into the forums where certain personalities are guaranteed to hoover up your time and energy. You will not change their mind. You have a platform, and a particularly amplified voice. People here would love to black-hole your time to prevent you from using it. ---
**Author:** ![MacGybo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/macgybo/32/409494_2.png) [@MacGybo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MacGybo)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2022, 1:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/722 "2022-09-22T13:38:37Z")
> [@Io\_Koval](#): > > MacGybo… Very kind. Thank you. Please be assured that if I had access to Eve or my own laptop just now, I wouldn’t be here. 😁 ---
**Author:** ![Ferdiad\_Silver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ferdiad_silver/32/331325_2.png) [@Ferdiad\_Silver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ferdiad_Silver)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2022, 1:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/724 "2022-09-22T13:42:23Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > 🤣 🤣 🤣 So then to be clear I didn’t at all admit to what you think I did, you’ve just decided that “new players” means “new players in protected rookie systems”. > > So yes, it’s you misrepresenting, as usual. There is no other CCP supported definition of new players. If you are going after mechanics and arguing for nerfs there is zero room for wooliness in defining targeted groups. ---
**Author:** ![Ferdiad\_Silver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ferdiad_silver/32/331325_2.png) [@Ferdiad\_Silver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ferdiad_Silver)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2022, 1:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/726 "2022-09-22T13:49:53Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > It’s pretty much impossible for you to accept that you were wrong, isn’t it? Please see a couple of posts up where I admitted to Ax’l I was wrong. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Whatever way you swing it I did not say what you are claiming If you chose to re-define new players outside of the CCP defenition of new players and your standpoint is that ganking new players is griefing (a point you’ve stated time and again) then “either way you swing it” by CCP’s standards or by your own you have griefed new players and admitted to doing so. “It’s pretty much impossible for you to admit you are wrong isn’t it?” ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2022, 1:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/728 "2022-09-22T13:59:52Z")
Lucas, if you are a sane person, then this must be _your_ definition of new player: > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Any sane person understands that a “new player” is someone who is new to the game You’ve in the past said “ganking new players is griefing” – presumably using your own definition of “new player”. And given you’ve in the past admitted to ganking new players – presumably using your own definition of “new player”, this is what logically follows: > [@Ferdiad\_Silver](#): > > then “either way you swing it” by CCP’s standards or by your own you have griefed new players and admitted to doing so. It’s like pulling teeth from a howler monkey. ---
**Author:** ![Ferdiad\_Silver](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ferdiad_silver/32/331325_2.png) [@Ferdiad\_Silver](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ferdiad_Silver)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2022, 2:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/729 "2022-09-22T14:02:51Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I’m not redefining anything, and you’ve not shown me where CCP specifies that definition. CCP punish players who target new players, the only metric for this they use or reference anywhere is if they are in one of the “protected” systems. Nothing else. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Any sane person understands that a “new player” is someone who is new to the game, Any sane person knows with the number of alts in the game there is no way of sorting truly new players from new charachters so the only metric we have is CCPs metric of the protected system. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Arguably CCPs definition is like based on days as CCP will automatically rejoin you to rookie chat every time you log in for your first thirty days, but I’ve not actually seen CCP make any statements on the precise criteria they use to define a new player. Go read the support pages, it’s very clear, while they are within the rookie systems they are new players. “Given the variety of systems this arc can take place in, players are asked to refrain from any form of griefing to rookie players (30 days old or less)” If you are 30 days old or less AND in a designated rookie system you are protected. If you choose to leave you take off that new player mantle and if you go back into those systems you would count as a rookie again by that very clear defenition. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013.md?page=32) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013.md?page=34)