# Proposal for Rebalancing of the Suicide Gank **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Tags:** high-sec\ **Created:** [June 24, 2022, 9:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013 "2022-06-24T09:28:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 38
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 9:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/831 "2022-09-21T09:36:30Z")
> [@Oleg\_K77](#): > > Just because you can avoid something it doesn’t mean it isn’t a problem. What it does mean is that people start playing this game without knowing the vision of the inventors of this game. There’s a multitude of websites that describe New Eden as a dystopian, darwinian environment, where losses are real, where anyone can be attacked at any time, where scamming is allowed, etc etc. Robbing is not a problem. Robbing is an intentional part of the design. Either one accepts the design and learns to compete, or one fights the design and should leave game and forum. For those that accept the game’s design and see it as it is meant, namely a serious challenge to the player’s abilities, if not character, in a very unforgiving environment that is mostly created by players (…), there is plenty of guidance from veterans. In that sense, “avoiding a game reality” is part of that “game reality’s design”. … the “ **game’s** reality”, New Eden with its own history, social mechanisms, crime, opportunities - which are unique and proper to New Eden, which _is_ and _should_ be different from real world society. **Trying to adopt real world values, social evolutions, insights etc is a complete negation of the fact that _this, New Eden, is a fictional world that bears no relation to the real world_.** If one wants real world, one should not be in this one (aka if you can’t stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen). The fictional New Eden reality is clearly one that does not cater to the weakest in its society. If the designers ever start catering to the weakest players they will undermine the entire player base and the reason of success for their game. That would be a gross mistake that would cost them their game. The strong cannot make the weak strong, but the weak definitely can make the strong weak. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 9:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/833 "2022-09-21T09:47:13Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > OK bro. Tis true 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > This is false. Not really. And how would you know? You never have 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Why would I? I don’t require you to accept reality, and it’s generally more entertaining to watch you flail about. Because if not, you realize absolutely no one believes you right? The only one flailing is you ROFL. Always a story with no proof or credibility. You realize if you had some, the more moderate posters might actually take your side hm? > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Hunting newbies for sport wasn’t a thing for most of the first decade. Wut. Of course it was LOL. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Ganks were done for profit and to take out strategic targets. The newer generation of griefers hiding behind RP have absolutely nothing to do with the origins of EVE. As they are now 😃 Oh? This newest generation of gankers is very much in tune with the spirit of EVE. Your tears are proof 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 9:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/834 "2022-09-21T09:50:03Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Hunting newbies for sport wasn’t a thing Good. So you want to make us believe that it is a sport now ? Do you have the numbers ? Any proof ? Anything ? Do you have any recollection of what happened in other threads where you made these accusations and wild statements ? > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > The newer generation of griefers hiding behind RP So there was an old generation of griefers too ? Are you going to talk about the one or maybe two historical examples you know about in two decades ? Do you have an issue with RP being present in an MMORPG ? Or do you think you really _are_ a business mogul and a capsuleer ? **I would bloody hope so that people are rp’ing here !** This excessive repeating of your litany across any thread that contains the word “gank” is a source of amusement. A kind of droll troll cabaret. Try to be constructive with something that is less destructive than “can’t wait until the game dies”. 🤡 🤡 🤡 ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 10:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/836 "2022-09-21T10:03:43Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Various numbers have been provided and you always conveniently find a way to ignore them. Lies. Check the last thread where you disappeared from, after ignoring the only reliable conclusion from the available dataset. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I like how I point out that griefers hide behind RP and from that your takeaway is that I oppose RP. Highly amusing, and again missing the point that everyone, regardless of activity, is RP’ing. Therefore no one is hiding. You missed a step there. Logic may be overrated, but it has its uses. Try it for a while. I notice you started to use the word “griefers” now, as _opposed_ to “gankers”. If that means you finally start to understand there is a difference between the two then there’s still some hope left for this forum after all. On the other hand, it’s probably hard to find anyone who wouldn’t expect you to show up here or there repeating the same bunch of fantasies about evil people, evil game aspects, evil ccp, and poor poor newbies. 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 10:18am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/838 "2022-09-21T10:18:29Z")
You must think I, or anyone else for that matter, have short term memory issues. I can assure you, most people already _know_ your litany by heart. It’s literally smeared all over the threads, it pops up like a weed. Any discussion with you has been an exercise in proving that gravity does exist: you always fall back to your starting point, ignore what the consensus was, and repeat your original claim. Broken record indeed, nothing constructive at all. Other people that called you a troll have finally convinced me. ---
**Author:** ![Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iceacid_frostpacker/32/505689_2.png) [@Iceacid\_Frostpacker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iceacid_Frostpacker)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 11:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/840 "2022-09-21T11:34:27Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > Oh? This newest generation of gankers is very much in tune with the spirit of EVE. [Gix Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand) You still owe me a evemail I sent you the isk that you were asking on your other thread but still days had past weeks even and no evemail. I am starting to think that you are just like Lucas Kell with all hot air! ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 1:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/841 "2022-09-21T13:29:22Z")
> [@Io\_Koval](#): > > I agree, it’s really hard to avoid robbing people in this game. But if people are fully active in the game and engaging in multiple playstyles then Eve is the most karma filled game in existence…what goes around comes around. Most of the Eve whiners are those engaging in a single playstyle who never venture beyond it, and for whom the universe seems unfair and containing no karma or justice because their own limited playstyle has made it that way. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 2:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/843 "2022-09-21T14:16:30Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Most of the Eve whiners are those engaging in a single playstyle who never venture beyond it, and add to that that everyone involved in pvp also has to farm eventually to replace ships (hence enjoy various play styles). Inevitably that leads to a conclusion that EvE players not involved in pvp (hence farmers “only”) have a higher chance to be “whiners”, at least those that refuse to become better, pick up the advice, or those who listen to the likes of you-know-who… On the side, your character may not even be a year old, but you appear to have the right attitude to play EvE. And don’t let anyone tell you differently. Some people who claim to have played since the dawn of eve are still rookies in essence, lol. ---
**Author:** ![Oleg\_K77](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/oleg_k77/32/329549_2.png) [@Oleg\_K77](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Oleg_K77)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 2:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/844 "2022-09-21T14:32:25Z")
You guys really trying hard to justify your desire for griefing other players, that’s for sure. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 2:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/845 "2022-09-21T14:49:24Z")
If you think anyone in this thread is guilty of griefing, please file a support ticket via the F12 button and provide the necessary proof. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 3:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/847 "2022-09-21T15:36:57Z")
That is a complete pile of garbage, you realise that, right? If you play well then no one is going to cause “karma” on you. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 3:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/848 "2022-09-21T15:41:06Z")
Theres no need to justify why the weak lose in any contest. Its the natural order. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 4:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/849 "2022-09-21T16:37:15Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > If you play well then no one is going to cause “karma” on you. You miss the point. Nobody gets assigned ’ Right…you are officially a ganker’, or ’ You are officially a miner’ when they join Eve. Anyone can do anything. If someone thinks ganking gives an unfair advantage, there’s nothing stopping _them_ doing it. The means to apply equitable karma is in the hands of everyone. Nobody’s _forcing_ anyone to go mining in a Venture in Uedama for 15 years. From the way Lucas and others rattle on, you’d think some were assigned ‘poor victim’ status the minute they join Eve. But anyone can be a predator themselves…heck it only takes a few weeks to reach T2 Catalyst skills even on an Alpha. _Eve itself_ does not assign people as predator or prey. People themselves do ! If people don’t like being prey…the choice not to be is entirely in their hands. If people **choose** to be prey, well, I am happy to oblige and be predator. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 5:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/851 "2022-09-21T17:08:17Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > people like me just … People like you just don’t understand that there is no balance between pve and pvp in a sandbox like EvE. The only balance that exists is construction vs. destruction, income vs expenditure. And there should not be any balance between pve and pvp. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 6:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/854 "2022-09-21T18:50:01Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > people like me just understand the danger of having significant levels of imbalance, The chance that the game is going to be re-created in your image is zero. It wouldn’t have any retention rate 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 7:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/856 "2022-09-21T19:33:11Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Nope, people like me just understand the danger of having significant levels of imbalance There _is_ no imbalance in a game in which anyone can play any role. You rattle on as if people were born into Eve as a ‘Miner’ or a ‘Ganker’ or whatever, in some assigned and fixed role. They aren’t ! There is _absolutely nothing_ stopping someone who’s a miner in one alt being a ganker in another. Where’s the imbalance ? ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 7:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/858 "2022-09-21T19:57:12Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Of course there is, as there is imbalance between mechanics Sigh. The Lord maketh his rain to fall on the just and the unjust. Where’s the imbalance in that ? Every player in Eve has the same access to the same mechanics. You ( deliberately ) try to confuse mechanics with opportunity. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 8:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/860 "2022-09-21T20:29:39Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Every player in Eve has the same access to the same mechanics. Chip truth. And it’s why ganking isn’t a problem. Lucas himself admits ganking isn’t a problem. There are several in game tools to avoid le gank. Veterans use them consistently. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > So then you’d be fine with solo highsec mining earning a billion ISK per hour then? Since everyone would have access to the same opportunity? Wut. That isn’t even when she is saying LOL. But then you knew that 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 8:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/861 "2022-09-21T20:29:50Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > You have no idea what my views are beyond not liking griefing, which you think is great, so excuse me if I struggle to take your criticism seriously. Show the entire forum audience where I say that **griefing** is “great” ? Please ? But you won’t, you’ll pick something about “ganking”, because _you_ prefer not to see the difference between griefing (against the EULA/ToS) and ganking (pvp). That’s always your fall back position when you run out of wriggle room. Everyone is free to conclude who is to be taken more seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2022, 8:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/862 "2022-09-21T20:31:46Z")
> [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > Everyone is free to conclude who is to be taken more seriously. Definitely you. But don’t forgot Yong, Lucas is actually a known and confirmed griefer, in game and on the forums. He’s admitted to it 😃 He’s also admitted ganking isn’t a problem 😃 [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013.md?page=37) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013.md?page=39)