# Proposal for Rebalancing of the Suicide Gank **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Tags:** high-sec\ **Created:** [June 24, 2022, 9:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013 "2022-06-24T09:28:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 43
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2022, 5:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/964 "2022-09-23T17:32:05Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Nope, I just don’t agree with your definition of counterplay. It doesn’t matter if you don’t agree. Cause he’s right 😃 I mean people still think the Earth is flat. Doesn’t mean their right 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I have, but we’re not talking about warfare tactics or strategy, we are talking about what makes entertaining gameplay mechanics, and avoidance is not “counterplay”, it’s “not playing”. Counterplay should create competition not avoid it. This paragraph right here illustrates how you don’t understand 😃 > [@Brucifer\_Morningstar](#): > > About the abuse of hauling, well i think it would be a small price to pay Uh. This right here tells me you understand nothing about EVE LOL. > [@T\_Elliot](#): > > You say you have read Sun Tzu and Machiavelli, and yet you seek the lowest form of victory, and always take the stance of the lion and never the fox? I hate to again question your veracity, but as you have demonstrated in the past, it is not to be relied on. You know he has no idea what you’re talking about right? He’s lying 😃 Just like the ship fit. Like the ganking. Like his guide 😃 > [@T\_Elliot](#): > > I am just looking out for you Lucas. You have embarrassed yourself so often in these threads. I am under the impression you may not be able to afford purchasing your own copies of either master’s “Art or War”, or maybe more importantly “Tao Te Ching”, residing as you do in your subterranean abode sponsored by your seniors, but maybe there is a library in your location where you might be able to barrow these texts? He can download free versions on the Kindle app 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > 🤣 🤣 I own both and am pretty well off, thanks. Drop the proof 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > And yet here you are spewing your uneducated verbal diarrhoea at an unprecedented rate. Clearly access to books has not helped you a whole lot. The irony in this statement is chef’s kiss 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > The same happens now. Most bumpers are fairly impossible to get rid of but there’s already safeguards in place that allows players to enter warp regardless of being bumped after a time. No, it does not LOL. Peeps just refuse the tools to stop them 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > And that’s what I’m saying should exist in highsec PvP mechanics in EVE, moves and countermoves, not avoidance of competition. It already exists bruv 😃 You just suck at EVE 😃 ---
**Author:** ![T\_Elliot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/t_elliot/32/453851_2.png) [@T\_Elliot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/T_Elliot)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2022, 5:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/967 "2022-09-23T17:44:47Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > You can’t please everyone and currently ganking is destroying countless peoples entertainment as well as putting the survival of the game as a whole at risk. I think balancing ganking overwhelmingly helps more than it hurts. You need to read the Tao Te Ching before you understand “balancing”. You clearly do not understand it now. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > It’s just they have no place here. I get that you’ve read some books and now think you’re a genius and want to try to show off but you’re clearly not. All you’re doing is trying to apply principles that simply don’t fit here. It is not that I am a genius, but that I have some experience and some learning. You constantly try to use tricks of language to hide that fact that you lack both experience and understanding. Rereading either author’s “Art of War” or better yet the “Tao Te Ching” will help with learning. You must climb out from the solitude of your sire’s basement and interact with the world for experience. ---
**Author:** ![Brucifer\_Morningstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brucifer_morningstar/32/334759_2.png) [@Brucifer\_Morningstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brucifer_Morningstar)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/969 "2022-09-23T17:49:35Z")
My friend, I don’t think you mean to misrepresent what i said on purpose, maybe you just forgot what you read, but you are including space outside highsec, to be clear newbe protection would only last till the edge off highsec, or become suspect, and fully turn off after 30 days, or 3 times suspect, or 1 highsec pvp. But to address the highsec stuff you mentioned: As warp-in in highsec: there’s already that, but nobody is gunna welp their ship to a corvette when they can just warp off, and seeing someone already parked waiting is a great tipoff for miners. Stealing drones… wait what? what stealing are you talking about? I need more drones And bumping, wasn’t there an update that limits the amount of time you can be stuck aligning? I remember hearing about this a few years ago, plz tell me if I’m mis remembering. And people can already bump, would the value of bumping people go up if newbies cant die? i don’t see it. And invuln ppl siting as scouts: in highsec they can already do that, who gunna waste a ship on a corvette? and there’s cloaking for every other situation like normal ppl. cant even use the new de-cloacker in highsec Thanks for your feedback, Any more holes in my theory I would love to hear more! ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2022, 5:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/970 "2022-09-23T17:54:04Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Even if it wasn’t though, why is it you choose to decide that his definition is the correct one and mine isn’t? Because his definition **is** the correct one. Plus, I find it truly absurd in any case that you try to boil the entire complexity of Eve down to the definition of one word. What the hell does it even _matter_ what ‘counterplay’ means ? It is little more than a crazy semantic ploy by you to get round the fact that people can **avoid** being ganked. So you bring up ‘counterplay’ every 5 minutes, like the dormouse in Alice In Wonderland frequently popping its head out the tea pot, really as a ploy to get out of facing the word **avoid**. It’s just the same old silly Lucas word games. _There is zero actual debate from you_. Everything ends up being 547 posts of you arguing that the Moon is made of cream cheese if you define cheese according to _your_ definition…and you deliberately trying to restrict debate to _your_ chosen words. ---
**Author:** ![Brucifer\_Morningstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brucifer_morningstar/32/334759_2.png) [@Brucifer\_Morningstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brucifer_Morningstar)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2022, 5:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/971 "2022-09-23T17:57:23Z")
Me “About the abuse of hauling, well i think it would be a small price to pay” > [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > Uh. This right here tells me you understand nothing about EVE LOL. What is it you think I need to understand? I’m willing to hear you out, but this gives me no direction for improvement or change. And yeah, I was talking about player retention, and how it should be favored for at least limited amount of time, over accounts under 30 days being able to get destroyed. Are you able to say what you have a problem with? ---
**Author:** ![T\_Elliot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/t_elliot/32/453851_2.png) [@T\_Elliot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/T_Elliot)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2022, 5:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/972 "2022-09-23T17:59:41Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Again. It’s a book mate. Reading it does not mean you fully understand it and it certainly does not mean you can apply it to any situation and act as if you saying so makes it a fact. All these references do is make you seem like a teenage that finished reading it yesterday. Well then if you can apply it, apply it. That is what we are asking. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Yeah, that is _abundantly_ clear. “The ancient Oracle said that I was the wisest of all the Greeks. It is because I alone, of all the Greeks, know that I know nothing.” > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > That’s some top tier projection you’ve got going on there. From the top of the tallest tier to the subaqueous bottom of a pier, you need more experience before you should feel eligible to tell others what to do. ---
**Author:** ![T\_Elliot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/t_elliot/32/453851_2.png) [@T\_Elliot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/T_Elliot)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2022, 6:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/973 "2022-09-23T18:02:24Z")
> [@Brucifer\_Morningstar](#): > > My friend, I don’t think you mean to misrepresent what i said on purpose, maybe you just forgot what you read, but you are including space outside highsec, to be clear newbe protection would only last till the edge off highsec, or become suspect, and fully turn off after 30 days, or 3 times suspect, or 1 highsec pvp. I apologize if I missed that you wish to limit your 30 day invulnerability to only high sec. I did miss that. I still think that it is going to break high sec hauling to the point where the ganking game play will be eliminated entirely. I know that I for one, would constantly abuse it. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2022, 6:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/974 "2022-09-23T18:04:34Z")
> [@Brucifer\_Morningstar](#): > > And yeah, I was talking about player retention, and how it should be favored for at least limited amount of time, over accounts under 30 days being able to get destroyed. You do realise that _most_ of the accounts in Eve that are under 30 days old are not genuine noobs ? That is pretty much a mathematical certainty, as a genuine noob will be focusing on one character in one account…whereas older players like myself can easily create 3 ‘new’ characters in an alpha account within minutes. In the past year alone, I have created 5 new characters that were not genuinely under 30 days old in terms of experience. And given the sheer number of alt accounts, the new characters created by older players almost certainly outnumber genuine noobs by a large amount. ---
**Author:** ![Brucifer\_Morningstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brucifer_morningstar/32/334759_2.png) [@Brucifer\_Morningstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brucifer_Morningstar)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2022, 6:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/976 "2022-09-23T18:12:21Z")
I think we need people like you who abuse mechanics and make it public, thats how the devs can find them and fix what needs to be fixed or start calling it a feature, like the MWD+cloack tick. If we did have an influx of people under 30days using hauling ships we would get to evidently see the cost effectiveness and efficiency opportunities that new players have starting out, if suddenly there were vets using young toon options. And about the auto piolet abuse, your right, but… i think it would look cool XD i dread the day where everyone is a vet and you can’t see anyone flying around besides warping off gates for a sec, because everyone is cloaked. Side Note: If there was something that would make ppl say “auto piolet would be good for that” but wouldn’t give something over valued ect. It would be nice to see more ships go about their business to make Eve feen alive, like going through some parts of null will make you believe what people say about Eve dying. Like if streamers could turn auto piolet on and leave it going around Eve with the Ui off to show some scenery, and maybe watch a gank happen XD. just theory crafting ---
**Author:** ![Brucifer\_Morningstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brucifer_morningstar/32/334759_2.png) [@Brucifer\_Morningstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brucifer_Morningstar)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2022, 6:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/977 "2022-09-23T18:29:10Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > You do realise that _most_ of the accounts in Eve that are under 30 days old are not genuine noobs ? That is pretty much a mathematical certainty, as a genuine noob will be focusing on one character in one account…whereas older players like myself can easily create 3 ‘new’ characters in an alpha account within minutes. In the past year alone, I have created 5 new characters that were not genuinely under 30 days old in terms of experience. And given the sheer number of alt accounts, the new characters created by older players almost certainly outnumber genuine noobs by a large amount. Yes, vets might be able to gain from the changes meant to protect new players. Tell me if I’m missing your point, but I don’t see why that has to prevent buffs for new players, eve will continue to grow, but some places more quickly than others and as we’ve seen with investment into new player experience, new players are a focus for dev time investment (btw the 30 invuln feature only should last till the tutorials catch up to what is actually in the game, i.e. ganking simulations, not just explanations of combat mechanics). In the spirit of getting some more time under the belt of new players to give them some good experiences and investment If you implied more, but i dint understand, plz more directly say what do you think would happen that’s so bad? ---
**Author:** ![T\_Elliot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/t_elliot/32/453851_2.png) [@T\_Elliot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/T_Elliot)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2022, 6:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/978 "2022-09-23T18:38:51Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > As I’ve already stated it can’t be applied because it’s a completely different context. This is a video game and the creation of ongoing competition is the goal. Again Lucas, you constantly make these statements that just are not true, and then use weasel words to twist out of people calling you on it. You really don’t understand the word context. I have applied it repeatedly to my actions in the game. I am constantly AFK mining, and hauling Billions of isk of stuff around, and have never once been suicide ganked. When I am hauling my load full of republic fleet capacitor batteries from one market to another, I am specifically trying hard not to be content, as the vets in EvE say. I am creating competition, in the market. I am also defeating my competition (suicide gate gankers) by being like a fox and avoiding the traps, and by being like a lion and scaring away the wolves. (Please reread Machiavelli, you really can learn something from him). It is so weird for you to say how one can’t do something that I do every time I haul stuff around. Do you tell plumbers that they can’t possibly connect two different pipes together so they act as one? Just because you can’t do it does not mean it can’t be done. (edited cus I spel gud) ---
**Author:** ![T\_Elliot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/t_elliot/32/453851_2.png) [@T\_Elliot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/T_Elliot)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2022, 6:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/979 "2022-09-23T18:53:15Z")
> [@Brucifer\_Morningstar](#): > > I think we need people like you who abuse mechanics and make it public, thats how the devs can find them and fix what needs to be fixed or start calling it a feature, like the MWD+cloack tick. > > If we did have an influx of people under 30days using hauling ships we would get to evidently see the cost effectiveness and efficiency opportunities that new players have starting out, if suddenly there were vets using young toon options. > > And about the auto piolet abuse, your right, but… i think it would look cool XD > i dread the day where everyone is a vet and you can’t see anyone flying around besides warping off gates for a sec, because everyone is cloaked. I am always surprised at the notion that the vets who have been playing this gave for over a decade now won’t use alpha accounts alts for their own benefit. I specifically use alpha accounts for scouting, and other mildly nefarious goals I won’t admit to. As Lucas says, I am not a genius, so I assume everyone does this. I appreciate that you are trying to find ways to “fix” the ganking issue, but it really will hurt the high sec hauling economy to create invulnerable alts. I still stand that if there is a problem, it needs to be solved by education rather than drastic changes to game play that has run for well over a decade now. edited to add: Please keep in mind that as long as alpha accounts are free, giving alpha accounts 3 days, 30 days, or an infinite amount of invulnerability is the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![T\_Elliot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/t_elliot/32/453851_2.png) [@T\_Elliot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/T_Elliot)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2022, 7:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/981 "2022-09-23T19:33:49Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Not true, but by all means if that’s what you need to think kiddo, you go right ahead. I have a little dreidel > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Congratulations, so do loads of people, but that doesn’t suddenly mean avoidance is counterplay. You’re specifically avoiding having to engage in counterplay. I made it out of clay > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > When did I say you can’t avoid ganks? I didn’t at any point say you can’t avoid ganks. Quite the opposite, I said that you can only avoid ganks because there is no option for counterplay. It’s bad game design to have a mechanic in an MMO where the only viable course of action is to avoid engaging with other players. And when it’s dry and ready > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > No it wouldn’t. Logistics is a tiny fraction of the overall economy and for the most part the costs to haul are to do with people not being interested in training up an alt and have it jumping slowly through a gazillion gates. Hauling is only really there as a time sink, to stop you being able to instantly move everything from A to B. Then dreidle I shall play! > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > It’s not running well though. They are losing players by the bucket load and as far as I know, according to PA financials are losing money. Changes are needed to bring in and retain more players and while gankers claim the entire universe would fall apart if they ceased to exist, the reality is that there have been far more drastic changes that didn’t kill off the entire economy. Oh - dreidel, dreidel, dreidel I made it out of clay and when it’s dry and ready Then dreidel I shall play! Keep trying to spin your narrative Lucas! Spin it like a top that just won’t stop. You know you’re not convincing anyone here when you constantly use your little word tricks to try to change the topic and spin out of what you said a couple posts before. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2022, 7:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/982 "2022-09-23T19:48:14Z")
It’s kind of curious how in the past, he’s told me that I’m basically no-skill trash, and that if I wanted to do “real PvP,” I should come down to null-sec to fight the “real PvPers” instead of “clubbing baby seals” like I’m doing now. And now all of a sudden he’s mocking other players for “sitting in a fleet pressing F1 on command” and comparing it to AFK structure-bashing. Alzheimer’s? Dementia? Just being an asshole? Maybe a bit from column A and a bit from column what were we talking about again? ---
**Author:** ![T\_Elliot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/t_elliot/32/453851_2.png) [@T\_Elliot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/T_Elliot)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2022, 7:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/983 "2022-09-23T19:57:41Z")
He has explained to me that he has fluid definitions or words, and poor dumb Americans like myself should give up on the idea that words have actual concrete meanings. From your list of three choices, I suspect it is mostly #3, but who knows, maybe words really don’t mean anything to him, and he can change them in his head at will? ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2022, 7:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/984 "2022-09-23T19:59:49Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > currently ganking is destroying countless peoples entertainment You got that proof or > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > putting the survival of the game as a whole at risk You got that proof or Also you’ve stated in the past you hope ganking increases so CCP shuts down EVE and finally allows you to quit because you lack the willpower to do so. Did that change or > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > It’s just they have no place here. I get that you’ve read some books and now think you’re a genius and want to try to show off but you’re clearly not. All you’re doing is trying to apply principles that simply don’t fit here. ROFL. They fit perfectly in EVE and any game like EVE. See, I get you think you’re being smart but when you say things like this, it makes you seem very much the opposite 😃 > [@T\_Elliot](#): > > I hope he appreciates the way he is loved on this forum. Bro, we are his only social interaction LOL. > [@T\_Elliot](#): > > It is not that I am a genius, but that I have some experience and some learning. You constantly try to use tricks of language to hide that fact that you lack both experience and understanding. Rereading either author’s “Art of War” or better yet the “Tao Te Ching” will help with learning. You must climb out from the solitude of your sire’s basement and interact with the world for experience. Well. I also have some ideas why he doesn’t like them either 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > 🤣 Again. It’s a book mate. Reading it does not mean you fully understand it and it certainly does not mean you can apply it to any situation and act as if you saying so makes it a fact. All these references do is make you seem like a teenage that finished reading it yesterday. And you fully understand it enough to say he’s wrong? It cuts both ways bruv 😃 But yes, all of those books are definitely applicable when it comes to EVE. I guess you don’t understand PvP as well as you thought hm? > [@Brucifer\_Morningstar](#): > > What is it you think I need to understand? I’m willing to hear you out, but this gives me no direction for improvement or change. My guy, he already laid it out for you. You realize peeps can generate endless alpha accounts right? > [@Brucifer\_Morningstar](#): > > And yeah, I was talking about player retention, and how it should be favored for at least limited amount of time, over accounts under 30 days being able to get destroyed. Are you able to say what you have a problem with? My guy, you realize there is a difference between a new char and a new player right? And with alpha accounts now, it is impossible to tell the difference. It won’t do anything for player retention. It’ll make things super crazy LOL. Hell. having an invulnerable scout alone will be a huge advantage. Peeps were crying about shuttles in null not too long ago. Can you imagine what they’ll do once they got an invulnerable scout? ROFL. > [@T\_Elliot](#): > > “The ancient Oracle said that I was the wisest of all the Greeks. It is because I alone, of all the Greeks, know that I know nothing.” You realize he’s gotta Google that right? 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > It’s not though. You might as well be a Flat Earther at this point bruv 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > How many new players create one character, play it for a short while then quit? And where are you getting those figures from? LOL, you demanding data is a lark. You never provide proof. You really think you can demand it? ROFL. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 It is HILARIOUS to see you claim something is a mathematical certainty when just yesterday you were failing to understand very basic math. I think you’re getting confused between me and her. It’s alright bruv. You get emotional 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Congratulations, so do loads of people, but that doesn’t suddenly mean avoidance is counterplay. You’re specifically avoiding having to engage in counterplay. Avoiding is literally the counter ROFL. Yennoe, you get that absolutely no one agrees with your theory right? That should tell you something 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I said that you can only avoid ganks because there is no option for counterplay. This right here literally made me laugh out loud, like for real for real. I mean keep re-reading it until you get what you said ROFL. You can only counter the gank because there are no gank counters ROFL. Man. You simply cannot make this stuff up. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > It’s bad game design to have a mechanic in an MMO where the only viable course of action is to avoid engaging with other players. Mmm, a ton of wars have been won by making sure your forces aren’t where the enemy thinks they are 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > It’s not running well though. They are losing players by the bucket load and as far as I know, according to PA financials are losing money. Changes are needed to bring in and retain more players and while gankers claim the entire universe would fall apart if they ceased to exist, the reality is that there have been far more drastic changes that didn’t kill off the entire economy. Cept ganking isn’t the reason they are leaving and you’ve never been able to prove otherwise 😃 We all know why they leaving bruv 😃 > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Alzheimer’s? Dementia? Just being an asshole? Maybe a bit from column A and a bit from column what were we talking about again? Real talk? I think he def got some stuff going on. And although its fun to farm him for content and just makes me have the lulz in general, I really do feel pity for him man. Honestly, I feel sorry for him. You can tell he is somewhat intelligent, but super bad social skills. He’s attempted to learn how to mimic I’m sure, but I’m sure it often goes wrong. He doesn’t have a lot of real life friends or meaningful relationships, hence his unhealthy obsession with EVE. In a way, we are his only friends. He needs the attention. You saw how he shut down once we stopped giving it to him 😃 It made him spiral into much more bombastic posting. But I feel bad if I don’t reply 😃 We are literally his reason for existing. In a way, us interacting with him is like an act of charity really. ---
**Author:** ![Brucifer\_Morningstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brucifer_morningstar/32/334759_2.png) [@Brucifer\_Morningstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brucifer_Morningstar)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2022, 11:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/986 "2022-09-23T23:13:18Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > > [@Brucifer\_Morningstar](#): > > > > What is it you think I need to understand? I’m willing to hear you out, but this gives me no direction for improvement or change. > > My guy, he already laid it out for you. You realize peeps can generate endless alpha accounts right? Yeah i got that, what i was trying to get him to explain was how he thinks it will be abused, you seem to agree with him. How do you Think accounts (not characters) under 30 days old would be abused? I legitimately want people’s ideas. I thought it would let them experience PvE for a bit, but people keep bringing up scouting in highsec like you can’t already do that safely, so i don’t really get what you guys are thinking. But for hauling small valuable things, it would probably need like a max est value of cargo hold then turn off for that ship when you undock with that much, but with a warning of turning off that would count towards one of the 3 strikes when going suspect. > [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > My guy, you realize there is a difference between a new char and a new player right? And with alpha accounts now, it is impossible to tell the difference. This is a legitimate concern i forgot to tie it in during my original post that involved opportunities for pirates to self-identify as pirates in Local character list, newbros would have to be identified, not just for people hunting to not wast time, but so that we can have comunity activites for newbros, similar to how we have areer agents and special logon rewards for new accounts already. Can we at least agrre the the initial fiew months of peoples play time realy effect how they progress and see eve? If we let them enjoy that initial time they experience in eve and grow new player investment, even if getting ganked is easier and happens more often, experience people will keep roling with the punches, and new players will have had the chance to become experienced. my original post wasn’t even about suicide gank, an ISD just mixed it into this thread, I want more variety of ganking, just not to uneducated players (did u see the part about how the newbie protection should be removed after they get tutorials that include at least the bullet points of flying safe from gankers, but ideally simulations of getting ganked) I’d like to hear your ideas too, and if you think I’m wrong, then I’d also like to know why you think that. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2022, 11:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/987 "2022-09-23T23:17:58Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > At no point have I ever suggested that sov null fleets are skilled PvP It’s mind numbingly boring Seems like you didn’t have a fun time in nullsec, and ended up with big fleets. However… equating that with all that nullsec has to offer is not a balanced opinion. Plenty of people here fly solo, duo, jump in quick response fleets, go scouting, do small/medium roam groups. I know that’s not for you, but maybe it is for anyone else. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > just an unfortunate necessity when you need trading characters in sov groups with mandatory ops for logistical purposes Sucks to have to be in fleets once in a while ? Not at all. Behind the curtain a small group of people do a ton of work to keep the operation going, provide content, (relative) safety, and income so that members have a good time. It’s only normal to be requested to at least make a token effort to defend the space you live in… and fair from the “trading” player’s side. Don’t worry, your sell orders never sleep and never log off 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2022, 11:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/989 "2022-09-23T23:23:37Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I just said it was ~~n’t~~ boring and denied the accusation levelled at me that I’ve claimed sov fleets are somehow skilled PvP Hmmm, sounds like you never FC’d. Sure the fleet members have to do as told, and for good reason. Most FC’s I’ve flown with were/are highly skilled pvp’ers for that type of combat. But don’t let that be a point of debate in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2022, 11:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/990 "2022-09-23T23:27:25Z")
> [@Brucifer\_Morningstar](#): > > Can we at least agrre the the initial fiew months of peoples play time realy effect how they progress and see eve? I do, which is why I made a thread detailing how the nubs should be educated. They don’t need to be invulnerable. They need knowledge 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > For the most part I prefer smaller gang NPSI fleets. Sure you do bruv. You don’t even know about manual flying 😃 > [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > Hmmm, sounds like you never FC’d. Sure the fleet members have to do as told, and for good reason. Most FC’s I’ve flown with were/are highly skilled pvp’ers for that type of combat. But don’t let that be a point of debate in this thread. You know he hasn’t. You know he was just an F1 monkey himself 😃 [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013.md?page=42) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013.md?page=44)