# Proposal for Rebalancing of the Suicide Gank **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Tags:** high-sec\ **Created:** [June 24, 2022, 9:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013 "2022-06-24T09:28:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 46
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2022, 5:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1048 "2022-09-24T17:05:12Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > yet can’t even accurately describe how I play? When’s the last time you were in an epic fleet battle ? I was in one just half an hour ago. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2022, 7:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1050 "2022-09-24T19:08:39Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > CCP has stated there’s a problem That is where you are disingenuous…because CCP never stated there was a problem with ganking, per se. In fact the presentation ended with ‘gankers you are safe’. You keep trying to mis-represent things. ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2022, 7:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1052 "2022-09-24T19:54:47Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > the presentation ended with ‘gankers you are safe’. I take this to imply that ganking, as in ‘suicide ganking in Highsec’ as a discrete playstyle, is both supported and protected, and will continue to be so until something occurs to change the Company’s mind. It doesn’t mean that CCP won’t continue to seek what it considers to be ‘balance’, which might involve nerfing or buffing the activity. If CCP agrees with Lucas, we may expect to see something along the lines of an expansion of active counter-play options and increased invulnerability for genuinely new players. More generally, the Company seems to be determined to address griefing (which is by no means limited to a single playstyle). Lucas appears to believe that ganking is the source of most of the griefing, but CCP cannot limit its scope in that way. It must address the issue across the broader cultural spectrum of the game. I think this is likely to be a particularly thorny problem for CCP. If, on the whole, CCP disagrees with Lucas, we may see changes of which he might approve paired with others of which he may not. Either way, the wrangle is likely to continue. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2022, 8:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1054 "2022-09-24T20:35:58Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Yet the presentation involved them splitting ganking in half and calling one half “griefing”. You mean the slide had a left and a right hand side to list the characteristics of both ganking and rookie griefing ? Yeah, looks convenient and tidy. LMAO. That doesn’t make it half of “ganking”. Moreover, there was also a slide with only one list showing. I wouldn’t put it beside you to now claim it was ALL of ganking. You’d do and twist anything to make your nonsense more acceptable - but only acceptable to yourself. 🤣 🤣 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2022, 8:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1055 "2022-09-24T20:36:52Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Yet the presentation involved them splitting ganking in half and calling one half “griefing”. That’s the bit that Altara keeps skipping over. The difference seems to be broadly based around whether or not it’s profitable, so CCP wants to keep in ganking of players flying expensive ships shot down for loot but not players pointlessly gunned down for no reason - which is the case most of the time in terms of new layer ganks. I’m fine with them balancing it to promote the former and reduce - or eliminate - the latter. But ganking isn’t griefing bruv. That’s the part you keep missing 😃 Also, newbs got systems to be protected in already. And lets not forget now with alphas, it is insanely hard to actually parse who is officially a nub or not. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2022, 8:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1056 "2022-09-24T20:39:56Z")
He’s a confessed griefer you know, he knows what he’s talking about. He may flag it, as he did, but he still confessed. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2022, 8:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1059 "2022-09-24T20:55:36Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Yet the presentation involved them splitting ganking in half think about what you wrote. It’s there, lol. I’m so sorry if you don’t see the irony, but we’ll help you spot it. Just like we often help rookies in becoming better pilots (which may involve some live fire). Always want the final word ? That’s quite ambitious on a public forum 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2022, 8:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1060 "2022-09-24T20:57:47Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > bro made a whole nother account just to grief her in game. what ?! Oh, that old story with the duel ? Nah, that was a clone positioned conveniently close. ![eyeroll](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/a/e/e/aee1f1f3ce56f8cf7e70aa0f781993aad4f94feb.gif) And to stay on topic: perhaps suicide ganking and hisec ganking in general could be made more interesting. Why does it always have to be catalysts ? Why not add a second option or a third, ccplease ? ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2022, 9:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1064 "2022-09-24T21:41:33Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > the presentation involved them splitting ganking in half and calling one half “griefing”. I haven’t the quote to hand Lucas, but I don’t recall CCP’s dividing the incidence of griefing within the ganking community as a 50/50 split. Numbers are important. Perhaps you’ll let me know. The Company’s recent commitment to tackling griefing seems to have arisen not just as a response to perceived misbehaviour within a minority playstyle community, but more generally within the game, and to some extent, outside of it. You can see the problem; if griefing is bad and wrong, it is bad and wrong wherever it occurs in EVE, and must be eliminated or punished game-wide. Griefing is griefing; it doesn’t change its nature according to the activity in which the player is engaged. The problem CCP will have is arriving at a definition of ‘griefing’ which both suits the Company’s intentions and seems reasonable to the player-base. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > The difference seems to be broadly based around whether or not it’s profitable This is another thorny one. Your view, I know, is that ganking should be limited to ‘profitable’ targets (not ‘profitable new player targets’, presumably’). Of course, this would rule out ‘empty’ vessels, some Ventures, and most barges and exhumers, unless they’re fitted with expensive modules which might drop, or valuable cargo, or mined materials. Which would mean that only comprehensively scanned ships could be ganked, thereby introducing to the activity a compulsory element in addition to other considerations. Perhaps they should make ship scanning less fiddly (than I find it). All that’s really necessary is CCP’s support for the notion of Permits. If pilots pay a fee to the ganker (or any pirate, scallywag), they’ll be permitted to mine, haul, whatever, with some limitations. O wait… ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2022, 11:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1065 "2022-09-24T23:08:36Z")
> [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](#): > > I haven’t the quote to hand Lucas, but I don’t recall CCP’s dividing the incidence of griefing within the ganking community as a 50/50 split. I think he’s already clarified it above. He just meant, divided into 2 lists, not numerically in half in terms of occurrence. One half of the slide they outlined griefing and the other half outlined ganking. The presentation, like all at Fanfest wasn’t a definitive definition of what is griefing and what is ganking. It was an explanation that CCP currently see two distinct patterns - ganking, which is fine; and griefing - which they have a problem with, with no numbers presented either way in terms of how significant either is. The two examples were just that - examples. So between “new player in a new player ship with no cargo” and “veteran in a bling ship” there are a whole lot of other cases that they didn’t address at all; and we’ll eventually see, if CCP ever make a change, what falls out of that. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2022, 11:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1066 "2022-09-24T23:20:15Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Yet the presentation involved them splitting ganking in half and calling one half “griefing”. That’s the bit that Altara keeps skipping over. Yet more of your utter dishonesty. No, they did not ‘split ganking in half’. ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2022, 11:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1067 "2022-09-24T23:20:18Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > > [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](#): > > > > I don’t recall CCP’s dividing the incidence of griefing within the ganking community as a 50/50 split. > > I think he’s already clarified it above. Yes, he did, and the clarification is welcome. I left the comment in because I too am quite particular about what people _say_ and what they might _mean_. I get in a muddle sometimes, so I guess we can all improve. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 1:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1068 "2022-09-25T13:02:13Z")
I like when he spam reports me 😃 Nothing else tells me how desperate he is ROFL. Can you imagine? Someone being that bothered by words on the internet LOL. ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 2:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1071 "2022-09-25T14:06:38Z")
When one cannot debate, cancel! ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 5:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1072 "2022-09-25T17:28:13Z")
We are back to “every post is flagged except Lucas’ posts” and “straight up insults” of “basement-dwelling incel” lore. Quoting since someone is a serial deleter-of-posts. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > It’s not my fault that you’re a ■■■■. 🤡 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Flagging the post doesn’t change that fact, asshat. 🤡 > [@Shooting player’s spaceships in EvE is not toxic behavior](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/729): > > go back to your inbreeding > [@Shooting player’s spaceships in EvE is not toxic behavior](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/shooting-player-s-spaceships-in-eve-is-not-toxic-behavior/376137/727): > > the fundamental problem is that you’re a moron. Makes any rational debate with you basically impossible. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 5:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1074 "2022-09-25T17:43:17Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > You get this is a lie, right? I deleted a couple that got flagged Maybe not now, but I can understand why people have an impression that you serially delete posts. There’s a pretty extensive history of deleting previous posts: ![deleted_posts](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/f/2/1/f21327094d602854a1b1ae46513baa81c6b97e2d.png) ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 6:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1076 "2022-09-25T18:54:40Z")
This whole thread, and especially the interaction with a particular individual (and their army of alts) is nothing but a huge example of the sunk cause fallacy. We keep pouring into it, and what’s the end result? Hundreds of flagged posts, temper tantrums, and really; just plain insanity. Why? Entertainment? Is it worth it? What’s the end goal? Consider the target audience. Who is it we are really trying to reach? ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 7:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1077 "2022-09-25T19:21:28Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > It’s not my fault that you’re a ■■■■. 🤡 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Flagging the post doesn’t change that fact, asshat. 🤡 Huh. Someone is emotional 😃 And weird. I thought you didn’t sling personal insults. Hm. Another untruth 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > If you think my post’s aren’t being flagged I can only conclude that you don’t have eyes. LOL the gas lighting. We don’t dry snitch like you Lucas 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > You get this is a lie, right? I deleted a couple that got flagged and a bunch got deleted by mods (or possibly automod I dunno how it works) and Gix decided to start claiming that I’m running around deleting everything. Bro. You know when you delete stuff, it says deleted by author right? 😃 Ahh, and I see Scipio already exposed you. And you tried to cute about it. ROFL. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > TBH though, I don’t particularly care if some asshats want to sit around pretending I’m deleting posts, just thought it was worth pointing out in case he legitimately wasn’t aware that it’s a tactic being used by Gix to claim I deleted a post and then make up some content he claims I posted. My guy, you realize everyone knows about the incel insults right? That’s why their bringing it up 😃 Can’t girlboss gaslight your way out of this one I’m afraid. You do seem a bit emotional tho bruv. Dost thou need a hug? > [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](#): > > Why? > Entertainment? Is it worth it? What’s the end goal? True but he also makes me just _giggle_ 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ISD\_Dorrim\_Barstorlode](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/isd_dorrim_barstorlode/32/361083_2.png) [@ISD\_Dorrim\_Barstorlode](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ISD_Dorrim_Barstorlode)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 7:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1079 "2022-09-25T19:31:27Z")
Why don’t we all take a step back before you say something you’re going to regret. Just a thought. Throwing that out there. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 7:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1080 "2022-09-25T19:47:00Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > No insults there, just facts kiddo. Hm. Interesting semantics 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Window lickers tend to giggle a lot. Oof. More abelism. It really is your go to insult hm? In reality tho, ganking is fine. You’ve already admitted it isn’t a problem and has lots of counterplay. What EVE needs is more content. Both player driven and CCP driven. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013.md?page=45) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013.md?page=47)