# Proposal for Rebalancing of the Suicide Gank **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Tags:** high-sec\ **Created:** [June 24, 2022, 9:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013 "2022-06-24T09:28:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 47
**Author:** ![Wes\_Wyhunnan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wes_wyhunnan/32/409400_2.png) [@Wes\_Wyhunnan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wes_Wyhunnan)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 7:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1082 "2022-09-25T19:58:47Z")
@Gix_Firebrand It can’t be worth it to keep talking to this guy is it? He’s gotten so much worse in the last week or so, and I’m just seeing it through the filter of your guys responses. You are out there starting straight at it like looking directly at the sun of stupidity, I honestly don’t know how you hang in there. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 8:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1083 "2022-09-25T20:00:04Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Where exactly is the line? Certain posters here seem to be able to launch literally hundreds of insults without so much as a warning so it genuinely seems to me that there’s no longer limits. Erm. My guy. You literally just slung insults above and now you’re having a go at an ISD? Seems pretty emotional 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Considering a few years back I got a 7 day suspension for calling someone an idiot, it seems that the level of moderation has significantly decreased, which may explain why a small handful of people are now able to engage in targetter harassment to force people out. Huh. But you said you don’t sling personal insults. I am the confused 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I’m pretty sure when Aurora came on board it was made clear that cleaning up the forums was a priority but the exact opposite seems to have happened since then. The vast majority of people with sensible, rational views have gone elsewhere. You keep saying this, but in reality who is leaving? What makes their opinions “rational”? > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > And yet you support a massively overpowered mechanics that deprives people of content and that is in itself so lacking in challenge that you got bored after doing it for a day and quit. Hm. Its OP, but somehow not a problem for you. So are you also OP as well? 😃 Challenge? It was no challenge popping ventures for lulz 😃 However, there is a big diff between ganking for lulz and profit. I’d do it occasionally for lulz but I cannot do it for profit as I only one account. This is common sense 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Oh look, Wes is posting, this’ll be amusing no doubt. 🤣 Dang, someone is def emotional. You alright bruv? > [@Wes\_Wyhunnan](#): > > @Gix_Firebrand It can’t be worth it to keep talking to this guy is it? He’s gotten so much worse in the last week or so, and I’m just seeing it through the filter of your guys responses. You are out there starting straight at it like looking directly at the sun of stupidity, I honestly don’t know how you hang in there. Ah well. I got a lot of patience. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 8:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1085 "2022-09-25T20:17:11Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Yep, I absolutely am. Because you and your little mates constantly launch tirades of personal attacks and seem to get a completely free pass, then I respond in kind a couple of times and an ISD jumps in with a warning. Erm. Bro. If you scroll up, you’ll see most of the insults being thrown by you 😃 There is also a marked difference between our “insults”. Mine? Perhaps a little snarky. Yours? Very much filled with hate and vitriol, also decidedly of an abelist bent. Mayhap that is why you received your suspension 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Sure, becuase much like gankers do with the endless taunting of gank targets they gradually wear me down to the point that I no longer give a flying ■■■■ about their feelings. You get this is their goal, right? The hook’s right there I might as well bite into it and go for the ride. Worst that happens is I get suspended and the ISDs prove categorically they are biased. Um. How are they biased when you just admitted that you’re gonna break the rules on purpose to get them to suspend you? Bro, you’re spiraling bruv 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I’m not surprise that you are confused. I mean you can’t blame me bruv. You are saying contradictory statements 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 8:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1086 "2022-09-25T20:18:27Z")
Since ganking is allowed by CCP, I see Lucas as a griefer, because he is trying to disrupt legitimate gameplay and attack us for playing the game as intended. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 8:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1087 "2022-09-25T20:18:53Z")
I mean he has already literally griefed someone in game and admitted it. ---
**Author:** ![Qia\_Kare](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/qia_kare/32/279281_2.png) [@Qia\_Kare](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Qia_Kare)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 8:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1088 "2022-09-25T20:20:25Z")
We probably should not be making any capsuleers the primary subject of our posts. The ISD’s jobs will be much easier if we don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 8:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1089 "2022-09-25T20:24:43Z")
So, returning to the topic of the OP, my criticism of the approach is mainly 3-fold: 1. Arguments about specific economics are fundamentally flawed. Any arguments based on “cost/benefit” are ultimately at the whims of the market. The numbers ran today are not the numbers tomorrow, due to complex factors around supply and demand. The specific goods that gankers have to buy to execute their goals _will change_ if there’s futzing-around with the material makeup (and therefore cost) of those specific goods. Likewise, people’s tolerance for hauling using the “ISK/EHP rule” metric _will adjust_ accordingly up to re-risk being ganked again anyway. Looking at it as an economic problem does not make effective and market-condition-resistant long-term sense. 2. Arguing around specific CONCORD mechanics (time & pulling) do not make sense. Tweaking these values will not fundamentally change the game. Either more or less catalysts/thrashers/tornadoes (or whatever tactic of choice) will be needed, and these arguments wind up being one degree away from simply being an economic argument. And see previous paragraph why those are not strong arguments. 3. Arguments stemming from morality and “freedom” do not make sense. I cannot simply just go and drop a Keepstar in any nullsec region despite wishing for that kind of “freedom”. Morality does not make sense because it is a video game – and people have fun conducting immoral violent acts in all sorts of video games – think of the Goomba & Koopa genocides subject to Mario of the past 20+ years. Really, it should be about arguments around engaging gameplay. The OP lightly touches on some aspects of those, but is saddled with what I find are the above weak arguments. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 8:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1090 "2022-09-25T20:27:27Z")
> [@Io\_Koval](#): > > people’s tolerance for hauling using the “ISK/EHP rule” metric _will adjust_ The same is true for mining. As ganking increases, the supply of ore will decline, and the price will increase. With more ganking, alert active miners will earn more, if they survive. Consequently, ganking is actually good for miners, as it removes AFK bot competition. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 8:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1091 "2022-09-25T20:41:39Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > The same is true for mining. > > As ganking increases, the supply of ore will decline, and the price will increase. With more ganking, alert active miners will earn more, if they survive. Consequently, ganking is actually good for miners, as it removes AFK bot competition. Very true. If miners were smart, they’d hire you to take out the competition. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 8:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1092 "2022-09-25T20:42:57Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > If miners were smart, they’d hire you to take out the competition. They do. That’s exactly what mining permits are. Pay me to gank someone else. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 8:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1094 "2022-09-25T20:53:34Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > You’re joking, right? No? It’s alright bruv. I know the truth hurts 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > That’s not what I’ve said. I’ve stated that I’m going to abide by the rules to the same degree others are. It is, actually bruv. Scroll up 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > They genuinely don’t seem to care. Pretty much everyone that posts against ganking is immediately the target of the majority of subsequent posts by gankers, and to date I’ve not seen a single one of them get so much as a temporary vacation. I mean, we also don’t go around slinging abelist slurs at peeps 😃 Also most of those posters aren’t even gankers 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > With these in mind this is where the idea of ganking being limited by ship class makes more sense. If all haulers and T2/Faction ships were the only valid targets it’d be relatively simple to implement, easy to identify and would drive ganking towards the content-generating style of space piracy, rather than griefplay. This makes zero sense LOL. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Gankers don’t affect the prices of ore though, as gankers predominantly targets solo players in trash fits, while ignoring the major mining fleets. You got any proof or ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 9:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1096 "2022-09-25T21:00:21Z")
Lucas keeps making contradictory arguments. Ganking can’t be both over-powered and insignificant. If ganking doesn’t affect the market, then it isn’t overpowered. It can’t be too easy to gank, and yet easy to avoid ganks. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 9:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1097 "2022-09-25T21:07:40Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Are you actually capable of posting anything relevant? I genuinely hope you get the help you need for whatever trauma has led to you behaving the way you do. Heh. Someone seems a little emotional today. It ain’t Chewsday tho, innit? Imagine being this pressed over a vidya game. Also sorry Grampy Kells, I bought a val skin today. Is that P2W or > [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > Lucas keeps making contradictory arguments. > > Ganking can’t be both over-powered and insignificant. > > If ganking doesn’t affect the market, then it isn’t overpowered. > > It can’t be too easy to gank, and yet easy to avoid ganks. Very true. I like how he says its OP but somehow not a problem for people LOL. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 9:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1099 "2022-09-25T21:22:04Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Sure it can. It’s overpowered because it takes basically no effort to engage in and has no realistic counterplay. It has no real impact in-game because veterans avoid it and the taarget gankers pick tend to be one that make little impact on the game beyond retention. Where ganking has a massive impact is on attricting and keeping new players. ROFL. The mental gymnastics this paragraph has is chef’s kiss. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > You say that pretty much constantly. I understand that you get off on the idea that you’ve impacted someone else’s mental health but you won’t get anywhere with that here bud. Bro uh. Just scroll up. It is obvious you spiraled pretty bad 😃 And now you’re attempting to back track and hopefully evade some of the stuff you stepped in LOL. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 11:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1101 "2022-09-25T23:13:21Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > So just to confirm the answer to: > > > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > > > Are you actually capable of posting anything relevant? > > That’s a solid “no” then Please don’t post to yourself, internal conflicts are not that interesting 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 11:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1103 "2022-09-25T23:16:15Z")
you really are lying in wait, aren’t you. You would have made a great gate camper, always alert. Alas… You forgot about the context of New Eden, pvp anywhere (except starter, career and sister systems) ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 11:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1105 "2022-09-25T23:18:59Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I’m AFK mining and playing Fallout 4 Where are you AFK mining ? Did you take precautions against suicide gankers ? ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 11:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1106 "2022-09-25T23:21:59Z")
> [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > Did you take precautions against suicide gankers ? > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I’m AFK mining and playing Fallout 4 I think we all have our answer now. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 11:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1107 "2022-09-25T23:22:16Z")
I’m still laughing ![DiligentYawningCottonmouth-max-1mb](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/5/d/c/5dc0d391dadfa43362d6fda260a90e7724573b83.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2022, 11:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1109 "2022-09-25T23:34:19Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Plus gankers would have to travel through lowsec to get me. Doubt that’ll happen any time soon. AFK is bad, mkay ? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013.md?page=46) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013.md?page=48)