# Proposal for Rebalancing of the Suicide Gank **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Tags:** high-sec\ **Created:** [June 24, 2022, 9:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013 "2022-06-24T09:28:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 52
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 6:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1223 "2022-09-26T18:47:30Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I know enough. Certainly enough to know that scammers on the whole do it for profit. Naw man, scammers are evil, man. They do it for salt, shits and giggles. Wasn’t that what you said about gankers ? > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Most ganking is griefing. Repeat that 7000 times and you move up a level, on your way to troll king ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 7:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1224 "2022-09-26T19:11:57Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Oh look, more false claims. Yawn. Oh. So you admit you made a false claim. Thankee 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 7:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1225 "2022-09-26T19:40:23Z")
> [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > new accounts made (from chribba’s website) I think the better information we have that demonstrates that EVE doesn’t really have a problem attracting new people to the game is the Gamebeat interview with Helmar in 2021 (at the bottom). _1.3 million new players in 2020, or an average 25,000 new player registrations per week._ However, given the potential for covid inflation, we also have information from EVE North 2019 where CCP outlined that there were about 21,000 new player registrations each week and about 10,000 that actually login for the first time each week: ![new_players](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/b/6/8/b68c6ce0e53e2f85bb61773ac0f89a790b2c39a9.png) That was also stated in Helmar’s 2019 AMA here that: Continuing the discussion from [[CONCLUDED] 2019/03/28 - Live AMA With CCP Hellmar!](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/concluded-2019-03-28-live-ama-with-ccp-hellmar/149100/2): > [@\[CONCLUDED\] 2019/03/28 - Live AMA With CCP Hellmar!](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/concluded-2019-03-28-live-ama-with-ccp-hellmar/149100/2): > > Every week we have over 10.000 new EVE Players and 30 days later not very many remain. This needs to change. Helmar described the player base as a river at one point. It’s constantly flowing and it’s up to CCP to provide enough content to increase the base that sticks around. Nothing we are doing as a player base is as bad for retention as things CCP do or don’t do. 90% gone within the first 7 days each week. This isn’t a player group that is being ganked out of the game. > **[Eve Online experienced its own GameStop-like short squeeze](https://venturebeat.com/games/eve-online-experienced-its-own-gamestop-like-short-squeeze/)** > > Metaverses can be subject to outside manipulation, too, as CCP Games boss Hilmar Petursson remembers about Eve Online's stock market. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 7:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1226 "2022-09-26T19:43:15Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > Nothing we are doing as a player base is as bad for retention as things CCP do or don’t do. 90% gone within the first 7 days each week. This isn’t a player group that is being ganked out of the game. Since I’ve been spending time in the nub systems, I feel too the meta of game communication has changed a ton too. The sense of community isn’t really there. Local is dead. Its often me, talking to myself 😃 Most likely cause peeps are on Discord etc. But yea, the newbs aren’t being killed by ganker hordes. I only found one ganker total in the starter systems and he was docked up and AFK 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 8:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1228 "2022-09-26T20:35:35Z")
What’s funny is that decision to change war decs is what directly lead to ganking being more prevalent 😃 Also yes, it should be a cruel world. What’s crazy about that quote is it reveals daddy CCP’s mistake. A few bullies vs tens of thousands of people, and the few were winning? How were they winning? Because the tens of thousands were cowards. If they had all fought back, how could the few have won? If corps joined up with other corps and fielded hundreds of ships in response? It isn’t that war decs were being abused. It’s that the majority of HS carebears are cowards, who don’t know how to play the game. So they cried to daddy CCP to save them. When they had the tools to save themselves all along. The war dec change may not have been the first nail nor will it be the last in EVE’s coffin. But every nail driving it shut, its pounded in by the players. It is our base that is ruining the game. Not by ganking but by crying victim. EVE is cruel but fair. There are always ways to fight back. Always ways to save yourself. But it means you actually have to play the game. Actually engage your brain vs another player. You have all the tools you need to fight. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 8:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1230 "2022-09-26T20:48:17Z")
Of course it is 😃 It’s why this is all you can come back with 😃 The thing that’s killing EVE isn’t ganking bruv. Its victimhood 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 8:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1232 "2022-09-26T20:58:37Z")
I love when you finally give up and that’s all you got Grampy Kells Rroff 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 11:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1233 "2022-09-26T23:43:51Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > And you are unable to show the numbers that leave for other reasons. the difference is that I’m quite happy stating that my opinions are my opinions, while you seem intent on declaring my opinions invalid simply because you disagree with them. The fact that it’s a big enough issue for CCP to actually state it needs to be addressed suggests it’s not an insignificant factor. No, the only real fact I see here is that your arguing is totally dishonest. As numerous others have pointed out, you just slither between a variety of stock responses that never really deal with the issues. You replies are always worded _not_ to actually answer the specific issues people have raised…but instead to evade them and speak in generalist tones. This is also why you contradict yourself so often…making specific comments when there is less pressure for an answer, and tangential contradictory statements when there is such pressure. The end result is that people can _clearly_ see that you yourself do not have a clear underlying backbone for your views but instead an obsessive ‘cause’ without any real roots…for which you grasp at any straw that you can pretend ‘supports’ that cause. What we have here is not a problem looking for a solution…but a ‘solution’ looking for a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 11:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1234 "2022-09-26T23:51:14Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > What we have here is not a problem looking for a solution…but a ‘solution’ looking for a problem. Well its clearer to me now since I know who he is now. I thought he was Drac, but Drac has a particular posting style. I didn’t think he was good enough at RP to consistently hide it for so long. But he gave himself away with the game forum comment thing. Rroff used to say that all the time as his excuse of how his opinion was relevant even tho he didn’t play EVE much anymore. Makes sense now 😃 Rroff also rroffed himself off the forums but I’m guessing he just switched to another alt 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2022, 12:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1235 "2022-09-27T00:13:12Z")
> [@Scipio\_Artelius](#): > > Nothing we are doing as a player base is as bad for retention as things CCP do or don’t do. 90% gone within the first 7 days each week. This isn’t a player group that is being ganked out of the game. The remarkable thing is that we **can** actually put some data together and arrive at our own meaningful stats. To the extent that we can definitively state that ganking is not the major cause of noobs leaving. Actual mathematical proof… 1. We know from the CCP stats you mentioned that about 10,744 first logins occur every week. 2. We know from stats derived from Kezrai Charzai ( and I independently arrived at similar figures ) that about 100 people are ganked every day…or 700 a week. 3. Kezrai later argued that the true figure for ganking _may_ be up to 4 times higher. I don’t accept that, but even if I did…that would be 2800 a week, and we know _most_ ganking is _not_ of noobs in their first week. It’s only a small portion. 4. Even if we did generously allow for half of all ganks being noobs in the first week, that would be 1400 a week. And yet CCPs figures show that out of 10,744…9642 have left within the first week. That means a full 85% of all those leaving within the first week were not ganked. I suspect the true figure is well over 95%. 5. That is a _highly_ conservative estimate based on allowing even the most wildly high figures for ganks within first week. But the true purpose was in any case to show that _even with_ allowing such wildly liberal levels of ganking we still see that the huge majority of leavers have NOT left due to ganking…because they were not ganked ! ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2022, 12:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1237 "2022-09-27T00:19:53Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Do you have anything relevant to say? Oh yes. As you will see from my previous post I’ve blown your silly claims clean out of the water. It is possible to arrive at stats that show that the vast majority of leavers do **not** leave due to ganking. And frankly I have bookmarked my post above and from now on it is all you are going to get by way of response. I no longer give a damn what you think…because I don’t believe thinking is something you ever actually do. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2022, 12:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1238 "2022-09-27T00:25:21Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > All you’re doing is making a whole bunch of assumptions that fit your narrative then going “tada, proof!”. I have **definitively** mathematically shown that the vast majority of people who leave within the first week were not ganked. You have zero argument against that data…because I have even allowed for _wildly inflated_ ganking figures and the number of leavers not ganked within first week is still a huge portion. You, on the other hand, have never provided a single scrap of mathematical data **at all.** ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2022, 12:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1240 "2022-09-27T00:32:30Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > No you can’t 🤣 🤣 > > All you’re doing is making a whole bunch of assumptions that fit your narrative then going “tada, proof!”. I know. She had data and interpreted it. Scary huh? 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I don’t need to. The developers stating that it’s enough of an issue for them to announce their intention to make changes is in itself proof that’s it’s significant. Yennoe, I can’t fathom why you keep pushing the same lie when it’s clear you’ve already been proven wrong. Like, is it like a child’s prayer where you keep repeating it to try and make it true or Is your plan to just keep praying to daddy CCP to save you? ROFL. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2022, 12:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1241 "2022-09-27T00:33:18Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > You have no idea how many newbies left during the weeks you’re taking the incomplete ganking figures from. I am quoting CCPs very own data. YOU don’t seem to have any problem quoting CCP when it suits you…yet now you have a problem with **their** data ? ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2022, 12:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1243 "2022-09-27T00:40:28Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I’m AFK mining and playing Fallout 4 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 Too funny. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2022, 12:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1244 "2022-09-27T00:44:41Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > You’re quoting an average given in 2019 You were quite happy to quote CCP from 2015. How is it that _actual stats_ from 4 years more recent are suddenly irrelevant ? They are actual CCP data. Of course you don’t _like_ the data, because it proves your entire thesis is complete nonsense…as the number of people leaving within first week is _hugely_ more than the number that could possibly have been ganked. As you have zero interest in actual data it becomes all the more evident that your only purpose here is to troll. The point of rational discourse with you has _ended_. I am not interested in feeding trolls. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2022, 12:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1246 "2022-09-27T00:52:36Z")
I told you…I am not interested in feeding trolls. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2022, 12:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1248 "2022-09-27T00:58:18Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > You’re quoting an average given in 2019 and you’re comparing that to incomplete recent data. And you genuinely don’t see why that’s an issue? I mean feel free to drop your own data 😃 Weren’t you working on something? Or yennoe maybe that guide you did? Or the ship fit? Oh. Did you find where it says on the EVE box where being AFK is a core tenet of playing their game or Just checking 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > game is in a rapid decline compared to 2019. Basing this on what? > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Until you somehow become more credible than CCP I’m going to take their word over yours. Ah so you agree gankers are safe, as that is the words of CCP. Thankee 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > ■■■■ off then. 🤣 Someone’s emotional 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2022, 1:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1249 "2022-09-27T01:30:36Z")
Someone is getting verbally abusive. ---
**Author:** ![Omnis\_Decline](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/omnis_decline/32/335677_2.png) [@Omnis\_Decline](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Omnis_Decline)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2022, 2:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1250 "2022-09-27T02:43:06Z")
So… I did a test, just to see what would happen. I hopped into a ship, which I had helpfully named “plz no kill m only 4” so people knew I’m a 4 day old player who is politely asking to not be murdered. I flew this ship from the Caldari career agent system to Jita, and I docked at Jita 4-4. Nobody shot me. I guess that proves ganks don’t happen if you ask nicely for them to leave you alone? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013.md?page=51) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013.md?page=53)