# Proposal for Rebalancing of the Suicide Gank **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Tags:** high-sec\ **Created:** [June 24, 2022, 9:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013 "2022-06-24T09:28:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 57
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2022, 8:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1360 "2022-09-28T20:14:43Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Hilariously you were one of the few pro-gank people on this forum that actually had some credibility, but to go through this level of obvious lunacy just so you don’t have to accept what CCP are saying has eroded pretty much all of it. Uh. Yong has more credibility than you, for definite 😃 _Also_ did you find on the box where it says being AFK is a core tenet of _playing_ EVE or ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2022, 8:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1362 "2022-09-28T20:18:33Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > anyone that isn’t a ganker But **everyone** should be a ganker at heart in a pvp game, Kelly, everyone, including you - but you are a self-declared griefer and not a ganker 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 A pvp game is about measuring yourself against other players. That’s why I’m not concerned about losing “credibility” to the pvp-averse 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 spin some more And yeah, what about Gix’ question. Found the box yet ? ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2022, 8:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1364 "2022-09-28T20:43:54Z")
Lol, what a miserable attempt at trolling. Words don’t have any meaning to you, you change meanings as you go. That’s why you are a fountain of content on these forums. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2022, 9:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1366 "2022-09-28T21:18:32Z")
![ed435d645beb3b8b4ad95b144e9e94f5](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/9/f/c/9fc3cf0fb117fe891233a962fae14b0d76ba90fc.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2022, 9:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1367 "2022-09-28T21:57:07Z")
> [@T\_Elliot](#): > > But of course there is no _counterplay_ to high sec suicide gankers. Because, you see, _I_ define the word _counterplay_ to mean whatever I want it to. I have learned a lot of word tricks that mean I am always right and people who don’t agree with me are wrong because I define things that way. If people prove me wrong, it is just that they did not understand me, then I change the subject quickly. The thing is…forums are supposed to be places for discussion and debate where one can at least agree on what the basic facts are. It is _impossible_ to have debate with people who will never ever concede anything _at all_…and who are ‘right’ regardless of actually being wrong. And who simply double down on the wrongness all the more when challenged repeatedly. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2022, 10:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1368 "2022-09-28T22:07:09Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > “You removed one single niche playstyle? GAME RUINED!”. I love how dramatic you lot get. Actually you’d be changing a core tenet of the game. Speaking of core tenets, did you find where it said being AFK is one of them on the box or > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I genuinely think the number they would lose is very low. I know you all say that you’d ragequit but come on, we both know you’d have nothing better to do than stay anyway. Bro, we all aren’t like you yennoe? Some of us can muster the willpower to walk away from a vidya game 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I’m pretty sure you’ve lost it objectively to anyone that isn’t a ganker or their shill, Bro. You realize you only got another habitual liar on your side right? Everybody else literally over here, chilling with us. The cool peeps 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Nothing Gix says is relevant. Actually, I say relevant things all the time. But then you dodge harder than someone with bone spurs 😃 _Also_ did you happen to find it on the box or > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > you call me a troll Brosef, you were literally trolling a newbro 😃 > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > And who simply double down on the wrongness all the more when challenged repeatedly. Sadly, tho Lucas isn’t anything new. There have been people like him on the interwebs and other places since time immemorial. However, take this to heart. You enjoy EVE and your time in it. Just know, it burns him like no other. He wishes he could feel it again. Let’s say if I even believe he has 20 omega accounts. Those accounts bring him no joy. He has already confessed to hating EVE but being able to not walk away. So I’m firmly convinced he is doing his best to destroy it, because he’s too weak to walk away. You’ll notice, if anyone mentions anything that find in game fun or brings them joy, he is instantly against. Hell DC mentioned people liked hauling and he wanted to end hauling ROFL. So keep posting adventures and stories, esp ones you create yourself. Its torture for him 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2022, 10:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1370 "2022-09-28T22:35:04Z")
Yennoe, I can tell when one of my posts cuts you to the quick because you only respond with one line 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2022, 10:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1371 "2022-09-28T22:36:05Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > However, take this to heart. You enjoy EVE and your time in it. Just know, it burns him like no other. He wishes he could feel it again. The thing with Eve is that things go from pant crapping scariness to regular humdrum pretty quickly. My first gank attempt…I was more scared than the victim. I can still recall when I’d never been more than a few systems outside of Vittenyn ( which you pointed out at the time )…now I travel all over Eve in multiple accounts. The industrial and pew pew side of it all, I _could_ eventually stifle a yawn at…maybe 10 years down the line. But there is one side of Eve I could never get bored of…the intrigue. It’s _people_ that make Eve what it is…not mechanics, buffs, nerfs, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Omnis\_Decline](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/omnis_decline/32/335677_2.png) [@Omnis\_Decline](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Omnis_Decline)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2022, 11:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1374 "2022-09-28T23:09:55Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > You say FACT but you’re basing your FACT on incomplete data because we know that zkillboard does not have all venture kills. So you’re admitting that when you used it to try and defend your point, you didn’t have any relevant data (and even though you’re wrong, the facts in that case still support the reverse of your conclusion about them)? Great! So you have no point, and the data you provided, by your own admission, isn’t valid information to support your claim. While other people know that killboards - particularly the largest one in the game - provide _NOT_ a complete picture, but sufficient data to be statistically significant when estimating the value of kills and deaths in particular regions of space (not so much for how you were using it, but that was a failure at how you used the data, not a failure of what data you used). > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > you disagree with everything I say simply because I say it. Even when it makes you look dumb to disagree you still disagree just to be contrary. With all the things I’ve said to you so far though, this makes me laugh because it’s _true_ - you really have managed to burn so much credibility in this topic that some people would have to check for themselves if you claimed the sky is blue, because you saying it makes it harder to believe. That doesn’t reflect badly _only_ on them for getting this upset, but it does reflect poorly on people for letting their feelings about you impair their judgement. Itt also reflects poorly on you that you’ve managed to so thoroughly ruin whatever possible credibility you may have once had, though. The consistency of your need to resort to ad hominem and other logical fallacies is more than sufficient even for us new players to recognise how little value _most_ of your contributions have, but I also think it’s worth reminding people that even a stopped clock is right twice a day. And in a related point… I’ve been blown up by corp players in nullsec for the crime of simply walking into the wrong system at the wrong time. In my experience in the game, **YOU,** not the people who killed me in-game, have been the most negative influence on my experience with EVE so far. They were polite, friendly, and willing to explain their actions, even though I was happy to accept my deeath because it was in unsafe territory where I expected to die. The explanation was as simple as “I was roaming in dangerous territory and they happened to be hunting a player from a rival corp at the time” - you’ve _ONLY_ been insulting me and demeaning the intelligence of not only me, but of other new players as well. And you’re doing it in the guise of a claim to be fighting _for_ us. That’s not how you keep new players safe. Let us learn - and _HELP_ us learn. Knowing that sometimes you’re going to die - a lesson that’s repeatedly shared in the rookie help chat - keeps us safe more than going overboard on where you draw the lines for safe spaces where new players aren’t allowed to be hunted. And in a game where it’s possible on your first day in the game to buy a 20 year old character and be playing with their 20 years of employment history still on file in spite of being literally a day-one player, how do you even _police_ griefing of new players at that point? Oh, sure, technically this character has existed for 10 years but I’m only a 10 day old player, how would you know if that’s true? The devs might, but players can’t verify it. Are you ready to get scammed by convincing “new” player actors running their 20 year veteran accounts with all their experience, but convincingly claiming to be getting griefed and to be new to the game? Because that’s going to become part of the counterplay to hisec PvP if you keep going the direction you’re going. Are you ready to get banned for killing a new player who knew a little too much about the game and made you mistake them for an experienced player’s alt? Because you’re going to run into me in-game one day and if you pick a fight because I’m not a real new player, you’re gonna have a bad time… I for one find that hilarious, but also don’t consider it a valid approach to gameplay. I don’t _WANT_ that to be how the game works in future, and because of that, I don’t want your “protection” as a new player. I want there to be some _limited_ safe spaces for me as a new player, but for most of hisec to still come with that modicum of risk where you might get rushed down and killed for your efforts. Learning to manage risk is a part of life in New Eden. Everyone here knows that, even you. You might enjoy playing the fool to try and get sympathy votes and you might even scam a few of the newer players with less research into the game than me. But you _ARE_ a scammer and you _ARE_ grieefing new players by trying to push an agenda that can only harm us, not help us, and doing so for your own personal reasons. I don’t know if you play and are scamming with the pretense of protecting new players to make your own profit margins easier to maintain, or if you’re doing it because you’re justt mad at the devs for some past decision and trying to troll them into killing the game on your word. But either way, you’re the problem here. You are hurting the new player experience more than the people you’re targeting. And you’re hurting new players and experienced players more than you’re hurting CCP, so if your fight is with them, just stop this crusade against the wrong people. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2022, 11:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1375 "2022-09-28T23:22:27Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > It’s actually when it’s too rambling for me to bother reading. I get it “blah blah blah I hate Lucas”, let me know when you’ve got something new (and preferably on topic, since 99% of your posts are just you having a go at people). Hate? I don’t hate you bruv. You don’t matter that much 😃 You just provide entertainment you silly goose. Oh, I bought another val skin today 😃 It makes a giant mech pop up when you kill someone. It is quite cool. _Also_ did you find it on the box or > [@Omnis\_Decline](#): > > You are hurting the new player experience more than the people you’re targeting. And you’re hurting new players and experienced players more than you’re hurting CCP, so if your fight is with them, just stop this crusade against the wrong people. Damn, when the newbro just loads up the void and lets loose. Good job 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2022, 11:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1377 "2022-09-28T23:36:20Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Thanks gankers alt, you opinion is oh so valuable o me. Come back when you post on your main. Post with yours 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > You’ll see time and time again I’m the target of ad hominems while I try to stay on topic. ROFL > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > You are the one that chose to inject yourself in three different conversations by siding with the people slinging personal attacks. I’m still abslolutely certain you’re an alt, but if you’re not then you’ve jumped into a conversation you have no background knowledge in and sided with abusers. So forgive me if I don’t care even a tiny bit about your feelings. LOL so you attack the newbro. Wow. Abusers? ROFL. @Wadiest_Yong , hear that? You’re an abuser 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I’m interested in ensuring the game continues to run You literally said you wanted it to end but couldn’t bring yourself to quit LOL. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > creates a lot of bad press for the game Where at LOL > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Simply not true. So me the fanfest presentation where CCP states that Lucas Kell is affecting new player churn. I mean I’m pretty sure everyone seeing you grief the newbro right meow is pretty convincing 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Says the guy who has to respond to every I say, whether it’s a reply to you or not. Heh. I know bro. I’m the only meaningful relationship in your life. I get it 😃 But um. I got bad news bro. You’re just a content to me, and someone who makes me absolutely _giggle_ 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 12:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1378 "2022-09-29T00:02:33Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > let me know when you’ve got something new (and preferably on topic, since 99% of your posts are just you having a go at people). Speaking of, Have you got something new and preferably on topic yourself? Since 99% of your posts are just having a go at people who don’t sycophantically agree with you? Also, I’ve been very patient and have been waiting for more than 2 days for you to show us on the box where it says AFK play is a core tenet of the game. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 12:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1379 "2022-09-29T00:26:44Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > You’re an abuser ![Dv87](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/b/6/8/b68e71df258c45151e585fb44306684fa8197537.gif) erm, what did I abuse, except coffee ? or is he playing his victim card again ? ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 12:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1380 "2022-09-29T00:31:36Z")
> [@Omnis\_Decline](#): > > So you’re admitting that when you used it to try and defend your point, you didn’t have any relevant data (and even though you’re wrong, the facts in that case still support the reverse of your conclusion about them)? Noooo…the way it works is that Lucas can use a data source or a blog or whatever and everything he then says is 110% gospel truth and fact even if based on the tiniest snippet of info or quote…whereas anyone else can use the exact same sources, even in huge bulk, and all of a sudden it is ‘incomplete data’, ‘stitched together’, or some other variant of ignore. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 12:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1381 "2022-09-29T00:45:42Z")
> [@Omnis\_Decline](#): > > I don’t want your “protection” as a new player. I want there to be some _limited_ safe spaces for me as a new player, but for most of hisec to still come with that modicum of risk where you might get rushed down and killed for your efforts. Learning to manage risk is a part of life in New Eden. You nailed it. Exactly my sentiments too. Lucas ideas _wont_ protect noobs…but actually harm them by making their initial exposure to Eve _too_ safe, and thus boring. For every noob that might leave due to any gank, there’d be 10 times as many who would leave because their first exposure to Eve lacked any risk or excitement. I’m pretty sure CCP must be aware that this is the _real_ ‘balance’ to consider. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 1:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1382 "2022-09-29T01:06:48Z")
Boredom kills more noobs than “griefing”. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 1:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1384 "2022-09-29T01:22:24Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > even more made up stats Yeah…like you’ve had hundreds and hundreds of noobs come on and say just how thrilled and excited they would be with a 100% safe carebear highsec, and entire 1000 noob blobs shooting the statue at Jita with demands of ’ we want 100% safe highsec ! '. No ? Hmm. Looks like its just _you_ who wants it. Aww…tell you what…just for you I’ll listen to ELO’s ‘All Alone In The Universe’. As you are. ---
**Author:** ![Omnis\_Decline](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/omnis_decline/32/335677_2.png) [@Omnis\_Decline](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Omnis_Decline)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 1:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1385 "2022-09-29T01:34:18Z")
You guys remember me mentioning the hours I’ve spent watching the rookie help channel? By the numbers of “I got randomly killed out of nowhere” comments vs. other things, there’s almost nobody actually seeing that happen. BUT… The number of players saying “hey where do I find someone to fight?” is _WAAAAY_ more than 10x the number. Many of them are just looking for PvE fights, though, so throwing every single new person into lowsec when they ask that question isn’t a good solution, but the “players want excitement” thing is true. I’d be surprised if the changes Lucas is suggesting would bring as _drastic_ a negative change as people suggested, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see new player loss rates double from having excessively-safe hisec space. ---
**Author:** ![Omnis\_Decline](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/omnis_decline/32/335677_2.png) [@Omnis\_Decline](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Omnis_Decline)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 8:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1387 "2022-09-29T08:35:25Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Bear in mind it’s actually impossible for your stat to be right, because vastly more than half of all newbies already leave so it can’t possibly double. Source? Seriously, if you’re going to say that, you do need to back it up with verifiable numbers. And if you can… well, I’m still a lot closer than the claim of “10x” the number of players leaving xD ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2022, 8:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1389 "2022-09-29T08:51:56Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > It wouldn’t be 100% safe. That’s yet another false statement. > > And I knew you ignoring me wouldn’t last. With no ganking, how could HS be possibly be dangerous ROFL. War decs aren’t even really a thing anymore after being nerfed into the ground. Also ick. Just super creepy comment my guy. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > High sec ganking is not “a fight” Oh? Cause its PvE right? ROFL. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Bear in mind it’s actually impossible for your stat to be right, because vastly more than half of all newbies already leave so it can’t possibly double. Oh? Um. You got that proof or > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > It was back at one of the old fanfests, EVEs retention rate is dire. Which one? How long ago? And how does it compare till now? Getting sloppy Grampy Kells Rroff 😃 [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013.md?page=56) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013.md?page=58)