# Proposal for Rebalancing of the Suicide Gank **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Tags:** high-sec\ **Created:** [June 24, 2022, 9:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013 "2022-06-24T09:28:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 62
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Kell](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lucas_kell/32/393556_2.png) [@Lucas\_Kell](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lucas_Kell)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2022, 3:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1493 "2022-09-30T15:08:38Z")
(post deleted by author) ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2022, 5:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1494 "2022-09-30T17:28:38Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > In reality EVE is very easy. You’d be hard pushed to find any mechanics where players won’t be able to succeed because EVE requires very little actual player ability. It’s all just reference knowledge which anyone can pick up. Except the ones that involve other players. Which is what you’re trying to remove 😃 > [@Omnis\_Decline](#): > > I’m sorry for having previously gone out of my way to give you the benefit of the doubt on this. You really are being deliberately abusive toward the community, and that includes being intentionally abusive to new players. But also, thank you for taking it far enough to show that you really are just that much of a waste of forum space. Remember tho, he cares about you 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > First off, you’re an alt. Secondly, these threads happen all the time and it’s the same people and their alts My guy. Maybe you should take a break from EVE LOL. You sound a bit paranoid. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > And since you still don’t get it, my view isn’t about “protecting new players”, it’s about increasing retention. LOL changing your stance again. Nice 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > If you want to claim that ganking doesn’t affect retention then **take it up with CCP since they have stated it does**. Yennoe, you’ve been proven wrong again and again on this. Unsure why you keep lying? > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > You mean like your entire post? Read it objectively, your post is nothing but a bunch of misrepresentations of my views dotted amongst a tirade of personal attacks. LOL. You got thin skin huh? He hasn’t leveled any personal attacks. His post is calm and rational. Bro, you just make me straight laugh 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I did, but most of the “counter-arguments” are just personal attacks, misrepresentations of my views or baseless claims that I’m looking to benefit personally. Mmm not really. You’re just panic posting cause you got caught out again 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Good. the more gankers gank, the faster CCP will need to act. Wardeccers did this too, repeatedly stated that nothing was wrong with wardecs and continued to increase wardeccing. CCP absolutely decimated them. If you don’t think there’s a similar appetite to reduce ganking, you’re not paying enough attention. Why would they need to act? CONCORD is there to punish the gankers 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > How’s that’s whole “ignore Lucas Kell” thing going? I’ve heard he’s impossible to quit. Ew. The cringe of this line. It does confirm my theory tho 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sitting\_Bull\_Lakota](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sitting_bull_lakota/32/438272_2.png) [@Sitting\_Bull\_Lakota](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sitting_Bull_Lakota)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2022, 6:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1495 "2022-09-30T18:14:50Z")
No one said there was nothing wrong with wardecs, but a very long time ago they were basically fine. Well, as long as you weren’t running a mining slave camp to fund your plex. Some people (super pilots) said there was a lot wrong with watchlists. So CCP removed them. Turns out, without watchlists, locator agents are functionally worthless. Without locates and watchlists, a group running wardecs has no reliable way to find their targets. They countered the sudden loss of actionable intel by banding together and running blanket decs. People whined and CCP made war expensive. So, the blanket dec groups merged to cost share and blanketed even more. Some whining later, wars are tied to structures. Wars are dead, mining slavers can “play” in peace, and now super pilots can dock their supers, so I guess the original problem was solved. Can we have watchlists back now? ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Kell](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lucas_kell/32/393556_2.png) [@Lucas\_Kell](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lucas_Kell)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2022, 8:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1496 "2022-09-30T20:48:07Z")
(post deleted by author) ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2022, 9:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1497 "2022-09-30T21:56:31Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Again though, what you’re reminding us is that an unrelated statement was made by a GM. Objectively incorrect. I am quoting a CCP employee, twice. How you fail to be objective, is for your reflection: > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Ask him though. @CCP_Rattati, in the following slide, when you labelled some highsec PvP as griefing, were you only talking about behaviour that is currently against the EULA, or were you talking about a subset of highsec PvP that is currently allowed within the EULA? Is answered by the following _CCP employee_ post-fanfest: > [@GM's holding strangers accountable for toxic behavior](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gms-holding-strangers-accountable-for-toxic-behavior/371089/27): > > To be abundantly clear: there has been no policy change for ganking > [@GM's holding strangers accountable for toxic behavior](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gms-holding-strangers-accountable-for-toxic-behavior/371089/27): > > Asymmetric PvP, as well as ganking, is still allowed in EVE. I look forward to debunking your further squirming out of this one. Somehow you cannot say “thanks, I stand corrected” and let everyone leave it at that. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2022, 10:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1498 "2022-09-30T22:35:43Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > The vast majority of the rest of the playerbase could clearly see it did, and so it got nerfed. Mm no. They weaponized their victimhood 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > It’s not necessarily about the mechanics being inherently overpowered (though in the casse of ganking they clearly are) Uh huh. So OP yet veterans can avoid it? Interesting 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > And this is entirely the fault of wardeccers. Mm no. Its actually the fault of people crying 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > The wardec changes have been good overall for the game though ROFL what. No one agrees with this statement. It’s been terrible and its directly led to the ganking increasing LOL. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2022, 10:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1499 "2022-09-30T22:36:20Z")
> [@GM's holding strangers accountable for toxic behavior](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gms-holding-strangers-accountable-for-toxic-behavior/371089/27): > > there has been no policy change for ganking So I’m allowed to gank? No problem with what I’m doing, right? Nice! ☀ 🕶 🌞 ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 10:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1501 "2022-10-01T10:48:18Z")
Remember, Scott made it clear that ganking was so easy, you could do it with less knowledge than a noob starts the game with. At that point, logic is out the window and you know very well that further communication will be irrelevent. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 10:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1502 "2022-10-01T10:51:01Z")
Yep! Ganking is so OP vets can easily avoid it 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 10:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1503 "2022-10-01T10:52:01Z")
Yeah, apparently I dont even need to opsec my hauling if I was him. I just autopilot from Null all the way through, because vets get a free pass. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 9:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1504 "2022-10-01T21:16:32Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > So I’m allowed to gank? No problem with what I’m doing, right? There never really _can_ be a problem…because ganking is not just about lulz or ISK but to a considerable degree also about power and influence. It’s wrong of CCP to present it as if it were ‘either’ for ISK or not, when part of ganking ( especially what I myself do in my gank character ) is more in the way of ‘this is our territory’. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2022, 9:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1505 "2022-10-01T21:19:34Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > is more in the way of ‘this is our territory’. Is not a gank to me. If you want to steal from us, you can pay the price. ---
**Author:** ![Jesse\_W\_James](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jesse_w_james/32/316227_2.png) [@Jesse\_W\_James](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jesse_W_James)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 1:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1506 "2022-10-03T13:08:22Z")
I have played for well over a decade and can honestly say I have never said…“OMG the PvP this is going to be so exciting”… This sounds similar to my favorite pilot Altara Zemara, ganker, thrill seeks in a T1 Industrial, always excited about the cat and mouse. I believe the comments in here are to generalize the want for it. If you were high sec and really wanted that excitement of the cat and mouse game, you can easily go to low, there are plenty of things to do there with plenty of NPC stations to dock in safely. JJ ---
**Author:** ![Jesse\_W\_James](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jesse_w_james/32/316227_2.png) [@Jesse\_W\_James](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jesse_W_James)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 1:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1507 "2022-10-03T13:11:01Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > There never really _can_ be a problem…because ganking is not just about lulz or ISK but to a considerable degree also about power and influence. It’s wrong of CCP to present it as if it were ‘either’ for ISK or not, when part of ganking ( especially what I myself do in my gank character ) is more in the way of ‘this is our territory’. No that is how you measure everything. Projecting your power in game that runs off paying Customers is not ideal for business. If you owned a store, and I stood outside of it hitting everyone with a bat, cops pick me up and release me after 5min and I go back and do again, how successful do you think your business will be? Same in Eve, ganking has to go, it is crap game play. It needs to go, and being worked to be pushed out of the game. JJ ---
**Author:** ![Jesse\_W\_James](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jesse_w_james/32/316227_2.png) [@Jesse\_W\_James](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jesse_W_James)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 1:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1508 "2022-10-03T13:14:40Z")
> [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > So I’m allowed to gank? No problem with what I’m doing, right? > > Nice! Nope not allowed, turn in all Cats, report to your nearest low sec system. JJ ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 1:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1509 "2022-10-03T13:25:48Z")
> [@Jesse\_W\_James](#): > > If you owned a store, and I stood outside of it hitting everyone with a bat, cops pick me up and release me after 5min and I go back and do again, how successful do you think your business will be? Successful for 19 years and counting, for a video game built and marketed around bat-swinging. ---
**Author:** ![Wadiest\_Yong](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wadiest_yong/32/426921_2.png) [@Wadiest\_Yong](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wadiest_Yong)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 1:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1510 "2022-10-03T13:32:24Z")
> [@Jesse\_W\_James](#): > > Projecting your power in game that runs off paying Customers is not ideal for business. Then explain why the game’s population went through a growth phase, to max out in the period 2011-13, when hisec wardec’ing was still a thing, and the major nerfs to ganking hadn’t taken place yet. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 1:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1511 "2022-10-03T13:48:02Z")
Incorrect dude, Many WarDec groups offered valuable input that CCP ignored completely. And in doing so the War Dec response was well we can always just turn into gankers… guess what… Ganking increased, and here you are crying just as many of us said you would do when the changes went through. ---
**Author:** ![Jesse\_W\_James](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jesse_w_james/32/316227_2.png) [@Jesse\_W\_James](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jesse_W_James)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 1:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1512 "2022-10-03T13:54:26Z")
> [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > Then explain why the game’s population went through a growth phase, to max out in the period 2011-13, when hisec wardec’ing was still a thing, and the major nerfs to ganking hadn’t taken place yet. Beyond a launch phase, the only noticeable growth in the game is the opening of alt characters, not to be confused with some High Sec war dec mechanic, that was abused and eventually removed for good reasons. Like everything else being taken out of the game, old players that suck at the game, gank and grief younger players out of the game so they feel like they accomplished something in the game. JJ ---
**Author:** ![Jesse\_W\_James](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jesse_w_james/32/316227_2.png) [@Jesse\_W\_James](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jesse_W_James)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2022, 1:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1513 "2022-10-03T13:57:58Z")
Successfully declining at a steady pace, not growing. Revenue going down, fees going up, weekly sales to boost revenue, plex sales to recognize the revenue in people’s accounts. Seems like a lot of short-term steps to bring in revenue. Change needs to happen, change is happing, and it will take Eve into the next 10 years of actual growth. JJ [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013.md?page=61) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013.md?page=63)