# Proposal for Rebalancing of the Suicide Gank **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Tags:** high-sec\ **Created:** [June 24, 2022, 9:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013 "2022-06-24T09:28:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 69
**Author:** ![Omnis\_Decline](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/omnis_decline/32/335677_2.png) [@Omnis\_Decline](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Omnis_Decline)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 4:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1644 "2022-10-05T04:59:38Z")
> [@Intar\_Baribar](#): > > You know what’s shameful? ganking a venture. You’re cancer. I run in Ventures quite often. If and when I die, it was at least partly my own fault, _AND_ so far, I’ve always made more than enough to buy 5 more of the ship I’m flying before getting it killed. I expect that to change, but every time the destruction of my ship was paid for multiple times over by what I did in it, I call that a win. I’ve had some ships already pay for themselves more than 1000 times over. Running is good if you’re built for it. Tanking the wait time for CONCORD is an option in some ships (not mine). Fighting back can work situationally (also not my choice, except against NPCs). I’ve done a few risky things, and gotten away with them. I’ve run through a small route in nullsec and a longer trip through lowsec with a load worth 10s of millions of ISK and gotten away with it. But I went into that run expecting it to be a risk and hoping to get the payoff. I’ve had slighly less valuable gambles that didn’t pay off too, and I’ve mailed people to say “I hope you got the loot I was carrying, would be a shame for it to go to waste” and had them laugh with me instead of at me. Take yourself less serious, and you might have more fun with the game. If you die, you die. Just try and make the time you spend before it pay for the replacement cost (and then some, if possible!) and you’re still trending upward. > [@Intar\_Baribar](#): > > You prey on people that don’t want to pvp. The tutorial tells you that undocking from a station is consent to PvP, doesn’t matter if you’re in hisec. I’m glad there are beginner-friendly spaces where it’s harder to get ganked, and there’s a bit more protection than just CONCORD in place so we have some “training wheels” on our road into New Eden. But there’s a lot of reasons to say that most of the time, miners need to outplay their attackers to survive - and the pirate players have to outplay the miners to get the kill. It’s “easy” to gank because the basic skillset for not dying is harder to learn than the basic skillset for killing. And that’s something that comes with the nature of how the tutorial works - it doesn’t explain much about a lot of the game’s systems, like d-scan for example. Improving that won’t fix stupid, but it might help reduce the uneducated deaths. Given how much stupid there is in gaming communities, I don’t think it would make that big a difference to player retention, though. ---
**Author:** ![Jesse\_W\_James](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jesse_w_james/32/316227_2.png) [@Jesse\_W\_James](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jesse_W_James)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 12:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1645 "2022-10-05T12:16:25Z")
> [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > How long did that launch phase take ? The peak was reached somewhere in 2011, the game was launched in 2003. > Are you saying that the biggest growth phase is due to alts being created ? And how do you know ? Data ? > But the most worrying suggesting you make seems to be that there have been no new players in that growth area at all. So it must be alts dropping out again after 2013 ? Or ? You can match up the surge of growth to alts yes on the player counts. But what you are saying is true, there is a good amount of alts being dropped due to subscription price. Now there has been a ton of sales as you may have noticed to combat this. The sales are short term relief unless the plan is to have sales more often. > [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > Oh, I’m not questioning the decision to curtail hisec wardec’ing. I’ve had my experience with it, and it looked formidable to someone who started playing and had joined a hisec corp. But, while we were wardec’d for two months I’ve never seen one of attackers. Odd. Location must have had something to do with it. Yes the main point is, there are mechanics in the game that are to add value. But there will always be those that push the limits and ruin it for everyone else, then we stand on the side lines and cry for the next decade. > [@Jesse\_W\_James](#): > > Like everything else being taken out of the game, old players that suck at the game, gank and grief younger players out of the game so they feel like they accomplished something in the game. This is actual words, but yes older players that got board, suck at the game, to scared to go to WH, Low or Null and want to club baby seals. These are the bottom feeders of the game, the fish no one wants to catch. JJ ---
**Author:** ![Jesse\_W\_James](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jesse_w_james/32/316227_2.png) [@Jesse\_W\_James](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jesse_W_James)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 12:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1646 "2022-10-05T12:24:12Z")
> [@T\_Elliot](#): > > I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree on this JJ. The PvP in EvE is the only thing that keeps me coming back. It is pretty exciting if not stuck in TIDY, but even then comms can be pretty fun, like mining slow slow fight, little excitement little progress. I do love the proving grounds, want to get into that more and burn up more ships there. Once JJ is up and going that is where I will go to die. > [@T\_Elliot](#): > > I like that there is a meaningful loss on death (ship that may have taken me a while to build blowing up), and possible my pod being shot. EvE is one of the few games that offer a wide variety of non consensual PvP. I am not sure if that is a differentiation anymore or not. With how the game is set up today, we have forgotten this is a lose all game, but Devs have continued to push the envelop to make it harder to make isk in the game. The game today and 10 years ago is not the same game in respect to making isk, and opportunities in the game. > [@T\_Elliot](#): > > EvE’s PvE is mostly boring as sin once you figure out how to do it. There is very little variety compared to PvE oriented games. I am guessing you haven’t done many top tier abyssals, you are not going to be sleeping at the wheel or you will be dead. There is lvl 5 missions in low sec as well, again lots of options people just seem to let it slip their mind. > [@T\_Elliot](#): > > Playing against other human players adds excitement and variety to these games that is just not there with coded encounters. Agree here > [@T\_Elliot](#): > > Sure I could go to low sec (And I do for faction warfare or moving items there), but high sec is just so mind numbing. There is nothing new in any of the high sec. The only thing interesting in highsec at all is the possibility of some kind of ganking. Use your imagination if you life in High Sec, or simply don’t live there. Ganking doesn’t make high sec exciting or fun. It is a posien that is being worked out of the system with a little time here. JJ ---
**Author:** ![Jesse\_W\_James](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jesse_w_james/32/316227_2.png) [@Jesse\_W\_James](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jesse_W_James)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 12:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1647 "2022-10-05T12:31:17Z")
> [@T\_Elliot](#): > > I am confused by that idea of projecting power and denying resources is “crap gameplay”. To me that seems like the main point of Eve’s gameplay and its pull. From large null sec blocks claiming these systems are theirs, and trying to chase out anyone else, to smaller pirate corps attacking anyone in their area, to syndicates in highsec trying to protect “their belts” from non syndicate miners, to individual industrialists starting price wars over a single market, most of EvE’s game play is all about projecting power and driving others from resources that one wants. I am talking about high sec, Null agree, don’t mix it up here or it would be very confusing. Projecting your mind sec on someone that wants to be left alone in the game is crap gameplay and people are greiefed daily in the game from POS players. > [@T\_Elliot](#): > > To my ears JJ, you just said that the thing that EvE is built around is “crap game play”. Once your read the above I think you will get on track and stop twisting words up in your own thoughts. But this is typically how the self justification that what you do is great and justified. So no this isn’t what I said about the game, I am specifically talking about High Sec and scenieros there. > [@T\_Elliot](#): > > What do you think the big draw of EvE is? Do you think that people would flock to EvE instead of Wow, FF, or any of the PvE centric games for the thrill of ice mining or belt ratting? No one is flocking to the game which is the problem, but people like the depth of the game. How everything is manufactured by players, you can own space, and write your own story. One server, one instance in the game is really nice. The lore is very in-depth and there is so much for the mind to wonder about bring in the role players. I am biased as I love the game, but my thoughts. JJ ---
**Author:** ![Jesse\_W\_James](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jesse_w_james/32/316227_2.png) [@Jesse\_W\_James](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jesse_W_James)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 12:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1648 "2022-10-05T12:42:05Z")
> [@Wadiest\_Yong](#): > > You know there’s another solution ? I think there is, but no ganker on this thread wanted to hear any ideas, which is how a ganker would act all justified about it. I like the role play of a real pirate where gankers live in Null pirate systems, and have worm hole access randomly to random high sec or low sec systems that they can jump into and disrupt things a little until killed and podded by someone or concord. I like the idea of ganking doesn’t drop anything ever. You do it because you feel that is how you enjoy your game play. I like the idea of ganking can on be performed by Omega accounts in high sec. I like the idea of max DPS on any ship no matter how many ships you bring in a gank, similar to structures were. Many other ideas, but again no one wants to see about a balance, so why deal with it. Lets open our door to a huge group of people that would happily play in a area they can’t be messed with. The Universe in Eve is huge so why not. JJ ---
**Author:** ![Jesse\_W\_James](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jesse_w_james/32/316227_2.png) [@Jesse\_W\_James](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jesse_W_James)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 12:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1649 "2022-10-05T12:45:24Z")
> [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > You realize you’re playing an open world PvP game, right bruv? nah brav you have no idedde what you talking bout brav, you not in the loop on the infomatics being presented on this topic brav. > [@Gix\_Firebrand](#): > > Bro, you know you’re playing a vidya game right? Like right brav Eve is so flip you don’t know how lit it is until you are two 40’s down and up is down and down is up and you are all twisted up in space. JJ ---
**Author:** ![Jesse\_W\_James](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jesse_w_james/32/316227_2.png) [@Jesse\_W\_James](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jesse_W_James)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 12:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1650 "2022-10-05T12:50:40Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > What the…? > > It’s what the frikin game is all about ! As a paying customer I am paying to _have_ the carnage that was advertised on the box. It’s a PvP massive multiplayer game…fer crying out loud ! > > Comments like the above make it very clear you simply don’t have a clue. Don’t give me that BS, you are too scared to fly out of carebear land like the rest of your buddies in the ganking world. Seal clubbing is the only power you can project, I can beat up little kids all day too, I am so good. > [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > Comments like the above make it very clear you simply don’t have a clue. The lack depth to your conversation other than sucking up aiko is clear to everyone here that you don’t have a clue. Just another puppet that could probably make real friends in the game because there are some great people, but got caught in the toxic crowd and you never feel like you are fitting in and you throw out a compliment and they gobble it up and don’t say thanks and you don’t know why. It is because your circle of Eve friends are POS. And I am pretty sure I don’t mean positive, but maybe I do. JJ ---
**Author:** ![Qia\_Kare](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/qia_kare/32/279281_2.png) [@Qia\_Kare](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Qia_Kare)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 12:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1651 "2022-10-05T12:58:38Z")
Out of pure curiosity, if anyone who’s in the know is still reading all this and wants to fill me in, how effective is orbiting an asteroid in a venture as a defense vs just being stationary? ---
**Author:** ![Jesse\_W\_James](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jesse_w_james/32/316227_2.png) [@Jesse\_W\_James](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jesse_W_James)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 1:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1652 "2022-10-05T13:02:17Z")
> [@Omnis\_Decline](#): > > Improving that won’t fix stupid, but it might help reduce the uneducated deaths. Given how much stupid there is in gaming communities, I don’t think it would make that big a difference to player retention, though. I agree the ganking community is full of low IQ. Nothing but a bunch of selfrightous people that think their way is the best way and only way and everything is okay as the community goes down and down, but they keep on going, even bragging as they push people out of the game like it is something to be proud of. You might want to reconsider what you are defending, ganker and greifers kill the very game you may enjoy and that is their goal, because they fail in real life, doing this online is their only outlet, it is sad but the true part of the story. JJ ---
**Author:** ![Jesse\_W\_James](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jesse_w_james/32/316227_2.png) [@Jesse\_W\_James](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jesse_W_James)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 1:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1653 "2022-10-05T13:04:52Z")
Against ganker zero, no one targets in space, you ctrl click the target on the overview, they are going to be right on top of you. When the gank comes in they will point and web, and you are not going to be out of the range. Against rats with some speed, somewhat effective, mining in low or null with micro warp going you can mine until you are full without dying in most rat situations. Saves you from having to warp around. Maybe others have different views. JJ ---
**Author:** ![Qia\_Kare](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/qia_kare/32/279281_2.png) [@Qia\_Kare](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Qia_Kare)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 1:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1654 "2022-10-05T13:14:14Z")
To land on someone orbiting at max range would require some timing, and you can go pretty fast with an AB. I tried to test this for a time but no one would shoot my ship while I was doing the experiment. I do not know, though, if this is because of the orbit, for other reasons, or if it was just dumb luck. I have heard tell that the initial landing range can be fairly important, but I’ve yet to hear from someone I consider an authority on the subject and likely to give me an honest, objective appraisal. ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 1:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1655 "2022-10-05T13:15:43Z")
Judging by the latest MER looks like mining is chugging along just fine in terms of m3. Guess the miners that quit due to ganking weren’t even mining that much anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 1:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1657 "2022-10-05T13:53:27Z")
> [@Jesse\_W\_James](#): > > The lack depth to your conversation other than sucking up aiko is clear to everyone here that you don’t have a clue. Just another puppet that could probably make real friends in the game because there are some great people, but got caught in the toxic crowd… God what a load of rubbish. The idea that I suck up to gankers is nonsense. Only yesterday I was bragging on another thread how I got 500m ISK worth of stuff right past gankers safely using a method I devised. _Outsmarting_ gankers is great fun ! I am both a ganker _and_ a miner/hauler…I see both sides of the coin. Probably the best place from which to form an unbiased opinion on it all. If anyone lacks any depth it is you. Same old topic is all you _ever_ whine about. I am active in numerous accounts doing wildly different things…but am quite capable of being just as silent about some activities as I am vocal about others. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 2:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1659 "2022-10-05T14:10:51Z")
> [@Qia\_Kare](#): > > Out of pure curiosity, if anyone who’s in the know is still reading all this and wants to fill me in, how effective is orbiting an asteroid in a venture as a defense vs just being stationary? My strategy… 1. Mine on the opposite side of the asteroid belt to the belt landing point. This wont stop determined gankers but will fend off gankers who just randomly go around the belts looking for targets. If you are 30-40km from landing point they are not going to land right on top of you. 2. Mine ‘above’ the asteroid belt. That way there will be no asteroids in the way if you have to quickly zoom off. 3. Mine with a clear line of sight to your escape station. This is why orbiting the asteroid may not always be a good idea…that asteroid may be in the way just as you are wanting to warp. 4. Pick a belt that is as far way from the entrance gates as possible, and as close to your escape station as possible. That means if you see gankers in Local you can be at your escape station before they ever show up. 5. Don’t unload your defence drones unless rats show up. They are otherwise just a distraction. You have all the time in the world to unload them and defend if rats show up…and they will make zero difference if gankers show up. 6. Listen out for that ‘thump’ sound of someone warping in. 7. Create an insta-dock and undock ( at 200km or so ) bookmark for your station. ---
**Author:** ![Githany\_Red](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/githany_red/32/378551_2.png) [@Githany\_Red](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Githany_Red)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 2:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1661 "2022-10-05T14:24:46Z")
> [@Intar\_Baribar](#): > > Again, the only time I lost a barge was when I was starting Eve. See you in Uedama coward. Is there a meet up in Uedama or something, I’ll come ---
**Author:** ![T\_Elliot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/t_elliot/32/453851_2.png) [@T\_Elliot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/T_Elliot)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 2:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1662 "2022-10-05T14:26:36Z")
> [@Jesse\_W\_James](#): > > Use your imagination if you life in High Sec, or simply don’t live there. Ganking doesn’t make high sec exciting or fun. It is a posien that is being worked out of the system with a little time here. Ganking makes high sec more fun for me. I fail to see how shooting people’s space ship in a space ship shooting game is poisonous or toxic in any way. I can understand that it is annoying if you’re the one being ganked, but it is not toxic. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 2:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1663 "2022-10-05T14:27:22Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > All that effort. Effort ? There is _zero_ effort required in following that list. It is all 100% effortless once you have bookmarks…especially as asteroids are always in the same place. My means of avoiding ganking when hauling also requires very little effort…just an understanding of how gankers think and how to be deceptive. ---
**Author:** ![Githany\_Red](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/githany_red/32/378551_2.png) [@Githany\_Red](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Githany_Red)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 2:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1665 "2022-10-05T14:37:19Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > am both a ganker _and_ a miner/hauler…I see both sides of the coin. Many gankers I hear are ice miners, I actually think the worst combination of pilot is ganker / miner/ hauler. Now a more Noble profession is AG/ ganker. Hunting the above ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 2:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1666 "2022-10-05T14:42:01Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > There’s certainly more than zero effort. Nope…there is zero effort. But I can’t say what the avoid ganking method is or I’d never be able to use it again. ---
**Author:** ![Qia\_Kare](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/qia_kare/32/279281_2.png) [@Qia\_Kare](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Qia_Kare)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 2:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1667 "2022-10-05T14:42:22Z")
I am just curious about how effective or ineffective orbiting is as a matter of academic research for no particular reason. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013.md?page=68) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013.md?page=70)