# Proposal for Rebalancing of the Suicide Gank **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Tags:** high-sec\ **Created:** [June 24, 2022, 9:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013 "2022-06-24T09:28:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 70
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 2:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1669 "2022-10-05T14:52:49Z")
> [@Qia\_Kare](#): > > I am just curious about how effective or ineffective orbiting is as a matter of academic research for no particular reason. Well, firstly you have no idea what angle the gankers may approach from. You could end up actually _approaching_ them and making the distance shorter, which you don’t want. Same goes for turret tracking…where the effectiveness of your speed depends entirely on what angle the gankers approach from. The Catalyst has pretty good turret tracking…and bear in mind you are not orbitting the ganker ( where your angular speed would have some effect ) but orbitting a stationary asteroid. Personally I think orbiting the asteroid is a distraction and a waste of time…same as with unloading combat drones. I personally want everything as uncluttered and simple as possible…with the Overview already on the escape station and my cursor on the ‘warp’ icon. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 2:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1670 "2022-10-05T14:53:16Z")
What about miner/hauler without a or g? ---
**Author:** ![T\_Elliot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/t_elliot/32/453851_2.png) [@T\_Elliot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/T_Elliot)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 3:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1671 "2022-10-05T15:08:06Z")
> [@Jesse\_W\_James](#): > > I am talking about high sec, Null agree, don’t mix it up here or it would be very confusing. Projecting your mind sec on someone that wants to be left alone in the game is crap gameplay and people are greiefed daily in the game from POS players. Why is it ok in some spaces, and not other spaces? I get that some people want to be left alone to mine, but that is like me saying I want people to stop undercutting the prices of the items I have up for sale. EvE’s universe is a dog eat dog place where no one is safe and Concord is just there to punish the perpetrator. It is not crap that people compete directly with other people in the highly competitive game of EvE. > [@Jesse\_W\_James](#): > > Once your read the above I think you will get on track and stop twisting words up in your own thoughts. But this is typically how the self justification that what you do is great and justified. > > So no this isn’t what I said about the game, I am specifically talking about High Sec and scenieros there. I still don’t think we are on the same track JJ. EvE is a game that revolves around competition between players. It is not “crap gameplay” to be competitive with others. Miners have to be ready to bug out if gankers come to get them. Haulers need to know the tricks of the trade to keep from being ganked on the gates. Faction Warfare plexers need to know how to see a fight coming, and to decide if they want fight or flight. This is all the same gameplay. It is not twisted, toxic, poisonous, or crap game play to shoot people’s space ships in a space ship shooting game. > [@Jesse\_W\_James](#): > > No one is flocking to the game which is the problem, but people like the depth of the game. How everything is manufactured by players, you can own space, and write your own story. One server, one instance in the game is really nice. The lore is very in-depth and there is so much for the mind to wonder about bring in the role players. > > I am biased as I love the game, but my thoughts. We have the same love JJ, but we disagree with what will bring people to EvE. It seems to me that watering down the non consensual PvP in EvE only waters down the one thing that EvE has that no other game can compete with. ---
**Author:** ![T\_Elliot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/t_elliot/32/453851_2.png) [@T\_Elliot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/T_Elliot)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 3:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1673 "2022-10-05T15:34:49Z")
> [@Altara\_Zemara](#): > > God what a load of rubbish. The idea that I suck up to gankers is nonsense. That is just an add hom that certain people use to undercut your arguments. I have been called a ganker’s alt because I argue against eliminating high sec PvP, and anyone who is against removign PvP from a PvP centric game _must_ be a ganker, or ganker sycophant. Don’t let their nonsense rattle you Altara Zemara. Your arguments stand for themselves. ---
**Author:** ![Azalais\_Selenica](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/azalais_selenica/32/354085_2.png) [@Azalais\_Selenica](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Azalais_Selenica)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 4:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1675 "2022-10-05T16:17:39Z")
I have a proposal to balance ganking! - All CODE members have their “Board my Corvette” button changed to “Board my Catalyst”. All CODE catalysts are fully t2 neuron blaster fitted but not tradable - All mining ships are now visible system-wide in the overview with warp-ins to 0 for anyone (even in deadspace) - Void S ammo deals 20% more damage to mining barges - Skiffs now suddenly explode if used for mining in HS ---
**Author:** ![T\_Elliot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/t_elliot/32/453851_2.png) [@T\_Elliot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/T_Elliot)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 4:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1676 "2022-10-05T16:44:07Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Ganking isn’t competitive though, it’s an overpowered playstyle used predominantly to farm new players for easy KB stats. Lucas, ganking is easily avoidable with education. New bros may be the victims of ganking because they don’t have that education yet. I have seen many posts on this site, with all the info one needs to avoid ganks in High Sec. It takes time to learn any game. Just because players that are not good at the game yet fall victim to high sec ganking, that does not make high sec ganking “over powered” in any way. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Plenty of games have non-consensual PvP, they just tend to know that veterans farming newbies is bad for business. What EVE lacks is any appeal to players who don’t want to engage in constant combat PvP. I say “combat PvP” because gankers tend to think that EVE being PvP means “I must be able to shoot other people at all time”. I agree with you Lucas in that EvE does lack “any appeal to players who don’t want to engage in constant combat PvP.” The game was based around non consensual PvP. Yes, in a broad sense non consensual PvP does mean that People are able to attack each other at any time, as opposed to games like WoW, that have battle grounds, or EQ that has arenas, but no open world PvP on standard servers. In EvE you can shoot anyone at any time (almost, there is still at least one places in EvE where one is totally safe from PvP). The fact that not everyone likes this type of game does not mean that there is a problem with the game. It is the way the game was made. If one removes the basis of the game one is going to drive out the fan base of the game while chasing people that may or may not play the game. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > And just to be clear, it’s EVE, not EvE Now now Lucas, maybe you just don’t understand the context of what the low-casers mean. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 5:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1677 "2022-10-05T17:08:03Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Nope, just an observable fact. Going by your past record here, I don’t think you’d recognise an observable fact if it crashed in from space and left a 200 mile wide crater with you at the centre. And what’s with this continual thinking that merely typing the word ‘nope’ gives you 6000 DPS of arguing power ? ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 5:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1678 "2022-10-05T17:39:12Z")
> [@Jesse\_W\_James](#): > > This is actual words, but yes older players that got board, suck at the game, to scared to go to WH, Low or Null and want to club baby seals. These are the bottom feeders of the game, the fish no one wants to catch. So they suck at the game yet are wildly successful at what they chose to do. Huh. You realize most WHs are abandoned now right? Low is practically empty. There’s no reason to go there bruv 😃 > [@Jesse\_W\_James](#): > > There is lvl 5 missions in low sec as well, again lots of options people just seem to let it slip their mind. ROFL no one runs lvl 5s my guy. > [@Jesse\_W\_James](#): > > I like the role play of a real pirate where gankers live in Null pirate systems, and have worm hole access randomly to random high sec or low sec systems that they can jump into and disrupt things a little until killed and podded by someone or concord. You realize in order to live the pirate life, you need targets to make money off of, right? You realize it hasn’t been feasible to be a pirate for a very long time due to lack thereof of targets. Hence why there is ganking now. > [@Jesse\_W\_James](#): > > nah brav you have no idedde what you talking bout brav, you not in the loop on the infomatics being presented on this topic brav. Ew. That was a large amount of cringe. And yes, you cannot dispute the fact sadly. The fact that you do, shows you are arguing in bad faith 😃 > [@Jesse\_W\_James](#): > > Like right brav Eve is so flip you don’t know how lit it is until you are two 40’s down and up is down and down is up and you are all twisted up in space. I feel like you’re a boomer attempting to do slang but just can’t quite grasp it. I pity you bruv 😃 > [@Jesse\_W\_James](#): > > Don’t give me that BS, you are too scared to fly out of carebear land like the rest of your buddies in the ganking world. Seal clubbing is the only power you can project, I can beat up little kids all day too, I am so good. You realize you’re basically calling everyone who lives in HS helpless right? Also, I wasn’t aware baby seals flew blinged out marauders 😃 > [@Qia\_Kare](#): > > Out of pure curiosity, if anyone who’s in the know is still reading all this and wants to fill me in, how effective is orbiting an asteroid in a venture as a defense vs just being stationary? Works quite well, since you’re already moving and can warp out a bit quicker. > [@Jesse\_W\_James](#): > > I agree the ganking community is full of low IQ. Nothing but a bunch of selfrightous people that think their way is the best way and only way and everything is okay as the community goes down and down, but they keep on going, even bragging as they push people out of the game like it is something to be proud of. I wonder what drives you to be so invested in a vidya game that you personally attack the people who are simply playing the game as intended. It’s wild 😃 > [@Jesse\_W\_James](#): > > You might want to reconsider what you are defending, ganker and greifers kill the very game you may enjoy and that is their goal, because they fail in real life, doing this online is their only outlet, it is sad but the true part of the story. And again, attempting to slander their real lives due to their enjoyment of a legitimate playstyle in an open world PvP game. You realize it just basically makes you look like a guy who has a tenuous grip on reality right? 😃 > [@Jesse\_W\_James](#): > > Against ganker zero, no one targets in space, you ctrl click the target on the overview, they are going to be right on top of you. When the gank comes in they will point and web, and you are not going to be out of the range. LOL. This is how you know you suck at EVE 😃 > [@Qia\_Kare](#): > > To land on someone orbiting at max range would require some timing, and you can go pretty fast with an AB. I tried to test this for a time but no one would shoot my ship while I was doing the experiment. I do not know, though, if this is because of the orbit, for other reasons, or if it was just dumb luck. I have heard tell that the initial landing range can be fairly important, but I’ve yet to hear from someone I consider an authority on the subject and likely to give me an honest, objective appraisal. Simply just don’t mine at the warp in point. If you’re paying attention and those catas land like 45-50km away from you, they will never catch you. JJ has no idea what he’s talking about 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Nope again. It’s gankers with their massively unbalanced playstyle that have repeatedly told people to leave. Heh. Its so OP, it isn’t a problem for veterans right 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Gankers go after easy targets such as new players solo mining without boosts in crappy fits. Bot miners, veterans and multiboxers don’t get touched. Oh? Huh. Aiko was touching a lot of veterans last night in Uedama. She even got a twofer with a nestor that had an astero inside of it 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Altara leaves highsec… as long as they’ve been commanded to by their alliance and is in a disposable ship or has full SRP backing. They’ve got to go pad killboards by tagging themselves on capitals from time to time. You mean like you’ve done in the past? 😃 _Also_ did you find on the box where a core tenet of EVE is being AFK or > [@Githany\_Red](#): > > Is there a meet up in Uedama or something, I’ll come He never came 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > On the occasions I do mine in highsec, not only do I have sound off, I switch the 3D renderer off to save resources too, so I literally have a blank soundless screen with a UI on it. You’re so cool bruv 😃 ---
**Author:** ![T\_Elliot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/t_elliot/32/453851_2.png) [@T\_Elliot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/T_Elliot)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 7:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1681 "2022-10-05T19:02:22Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Well yeah. Because it’s easily avoidable by veterans, gankers target new players. Lucas it is easily avoidable by everyone. One just has to learn watch local, how to d-scan, fit a tank, and jump to the gate. Those four things will prevent 90% of the ganks that I have seen. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > It is overpowered. Any gameplay mechanic which allows a very small group of players to directly disrupt the gameplay of thousands of other players is clearly not balanced correctly. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Well yeah. Because it’s easily avoidable. . . > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > False. The game was built around a player-driven virtual world with a variety of playstyles. Non-consensual PvP is a small part and has only really been championed by a small (albeit very vocal) group of people for about a decade. False, non consentual PvP has a major draw of EvE since it was released. You don’t have to into PvP combat to play EvE, but the potential of PvP has always been in the game in high, low or null sec. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Sure I do. A group of people have decided that EVE stands for “Everyone vs Everyone” so they use the lowercase v to push this false narrative. To my knowledge, the only EVE IP that has officially used “Everyone vs Everyone” in marketing is EVE Echoes, so feel free to head on over there if that’s what you’re after. Nah bro, you just don’t understand the context. These is no counterplay to EvE! > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > First off, it clearly is a problem since PA won’t continue to support a product that fails to bring in customers. Well PA can do what it decides it wants to do, but I predict that they will loose more players than they gain every time they water down the non-consentual PvP. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Secondly, it’s not “the way the game was made”. Ganking at its current scale simply did not exist for the first decade of EVE. It’s a mechanic that has grown out of hand and is in dire need to serious rebalancing, which CCP have indicated they intend to do. We both know that high sec ganking has been going on for a long time. I started this game in 2004, and it was around in 2004. I don’t see this out of hand dire ganking that is in the need of serious balancing. I did not see it then, and I don’t see it now. You, yourself, said that ganking is easily avoidable by vets. As a vet myself, I just have half a dozen simple strategies that have kept me from ever being ganked in high sec. I have never been suicide ganked once while afk mining, hauling, or running missions. As always this is an education issue. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 7:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1682 "2022-10-05T19:08:54Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > It’s the only word that is needed to get through your trash-tier arguments Saying ‘nope’ simply shows you don’t actually have any valid…er, what’s the word I was looking for…oh yes, I know…‘counterplay’. Any idiot can say ‘nope’. I hereby award you this year’s NOPE Award. ---
**Author:** ![Qia\_Kare](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/qia_kare/32/279281_2.png) [@Qia\_Kare](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Qia_Kare)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 7:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1684 "2022-10-05T19:54:45Z")
It’s more of a question for curiosity’s sake. Gankers have never been, to me personally, a problem I couldn’t think my way around in one way or another. However, since I would not consider knowledgeable on the subject of how to gank player ships, I thought I’d ask to see if orbits increase the difficulty, and if so in what way. In general, I don’t have to be the hardest person to kill, just not the easiest, and the bar I have to clear is generally very, very low so I don’t worry a whole lot about being ganked. Even if it were to happen, it’s just a ship and I can get more, if I didn’t already have them. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 8:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1685 "2022-10-05T20:08:31Z")
> [@Jesse\_W\_James](#): > > Ganking doesn’t make high sec exciting or fun. It is a posien that is being worked out of the system with a little time here. The only ‘poison’ I see in Eve is persons such as yourself and Lucas who are effectively poisoning the well with so much _complete and utter rubbish_ about ganking. You rant on as if ganking was overwhelming Eve, when in fact it is a quite localised thing. There are vast areas of highsec where you see a ganker once in a blue moon. You _wilfully ignore_ the fact that more noobs are blapped by NPC rats than by gankers…a fact anyone can check. And you rattle on with lies as if every gank is of a noob, when in fact by far the vast majority of ganks are not of noobs. _If_ there is a problem, then you blow it up out of all proportion…as if it were the sole reason anyone might leave Eve. Never mind the 99% of other reasons…all you can ever rant about is ganking. YOU are the people poisoning Eve. Especially by instigating so much division and arguing over something that has been part of Eve gameplay for more than a decade. ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 8:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1686 "2022-10-05T20:20:06Z")
> [@Qia\_Kare](#): > > I thought I’d ask to see if orbits increase the difficulty, and if so in what way. Obviously, a moving target is more difficult to snag than a stationary one. A target which is both moving at speed and in orbital planes can be a challenge - but not usually to the ganker, who relies upon stealth - and a skilled warp-in assistant. It was sometimes used as an attempted foil by AFK miners, usually unsuccessfully. Such manoeuvres were in my day more often employed to frustrate the activities of _bumpers_, who had to have quite the calculating eye (or a dollop of luck) in order to catch an orbiting target with a souped-up, though comparatively cumbersome, Machariel. Some of us became very good at it though. If it didn’t always end in a Permit sale, it did usually hasten the exit of the miner. Orbiting an asteroid will not put off the determined, experienced ganker. ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 8:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1688 "2022-10-05T20:26:55Z")
I think this post slipped through the cracks of “Lucas must reply to every post” rule. Figured I’d help bring it back up. > [@GM's holding strangers accountable for toxic behavior](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gms-holding-strangers-accountable-for-toxic-behavior/371089/27): > > > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > > > Again though, what you’re reminding us is that an unrelated statement was made by a GM. > > Objectively incorrect. I am quoting a CCP employee, twice. How you fail to be objective, is for your reflection: > > > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > > > Ask him though. @CCP_Rattati, in the following slide, when you labelled some highsec PvP as griefing, were you only talking about behaviour that is currently against the EULA, or were you talking about a subset of highsec PvP that is currently allowed within the EULA? > > Is answered by the following _CCP employee_ post-fanfest: > > > [@GM's holding strangers accountable for toxic behavior](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gms-holding-strangers-accountable-for-toxic-behavior/371089/27): > > > > To be abundantly clear: there has been no policy change for ganking > > > [@GM's holding strangers accountable for toxic behavior](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gms-holding-strangers-accountable-for-toxic-behavior/371089/27): > > > > Asymmetric PvP, as well as ganking, is still allowed in EVE. > > I look forward to debunking your further squirming out of this one. Somehow you cannot say “thanks, I stand corrected” and let everyone leave it at that. ---
**Author:** ![T\_Elliot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/t_elliot/32/453851_2.png) [@T\_Elliot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/T_Elliot)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 8:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1689 "2022-10-05T20:34:08Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > And who is it that won’t do those things and will therefore be the primary pool of targets for gankers? New players. You just gloss over the fact that education fixes this. Part of being a new player is that you don’t know how to protect yourself. But if people demand to change the game to keep new bros from making mistakes the game will loose all of the qualities that make it fun, and new bros will never learn. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > To you, sure. That doesn’t mean it was a major part of the game as a whole. The player-driven economy was by far a bigger factor and you seem to have no issues with CCP trashing that. Limiting easy kills though, that’s where you draw the line. Lol, strawman much? I love the player driven economy. Can you quote me once saying that I have no issue with CCP trashing that? No you can’t can you? This is just a silly misdirection on your part. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Based on what? The vast majority of veteran players really do not care one way or the other about ganking, and the handful that do seriously care would undoubtedly never ragequit anyway. I think the influx of players alone would vastly outweigh the gankers that they’d lose. The new server in China will go some way to proving this out one way or the other. > [@T\_Elliot](#): > > but I predict that Its just my prediction Lucas, as I have said. This is what I notice from the people I play with. You also make broad sweeping statements about what the majority of veterans players want. You predict that new players will out weigh gankers, and dismiss players such as myself who are not gankers, but enjoy the danger. I guess we are both just guessing based on what we experience. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Then your eyes aren’t open. Half the reviews of the game are people saying it was garbage because CCP allow griefing, and gankers are a very small number of people yet get thousands and thousand sand thousands of ganks. Way more than were ever seen in the first decade. My eyes are working pretty well. I saw more ganks way back in the day than I do now. I hardly ever see them. I am not saying that they don’t happen, just that they are more uncommon that some people make them out to be. People who quit the game because they got ganked in their venture would have quit the game after they lost their golem, or after they got scammed out of a billion isk. These people are not made for EvE. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > You keep repeating this as if it’s a winning argument. All you’re doing is agreeing with me that the target of gankers is new players. If your solution is to educate all new players so that all new players can avoid ganks then that’s functionally no different from removing ganking. There is a huge difference between giving the people the tools that they need to succeed, and taking away the danger that they may fail. I want to educate people so they can win at an interesting and fun aspect of the game (most of the time) while still allowing the other side to play their playstyle. You want to end the playstyle altogether, and somehow think that removing content will make people want to play the game. ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 8:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1691 "2022-10-05T20:35:57Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Yeah [ganking is] localised to areas newbies tend to be. [My square brackets] Come on, Lucas, you can do a little better than this. Where do new players ‘tend to be’? If they are genuinely new players, I suppose one might expect to find them in the Starter Systems, etc., perhaps in 1.0s or 0.9s. If they are congregating en masse elsewhere, I can’t think of a sure-fire location. Unless you mean the Level 1 or Level 2 Mission Hubs? I didn’t consider that. Help me out here! ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 8:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1692 "2022-10-05T20:39:28Z")
> [@Jesse\_W\_James](#): > > sucking up to aiko Lol…I’m obviously not ‘sucking up’ enough to prevent a Safety member having a kill right on my ganker alt. ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 8:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1693 "2022-10-05T20:39:46Z")
My growing updated response to show just how thick this conversation is getting: > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Again though, what you’re reminding us is that an unrelated statement was made by a GM. Objectively incorrect. I am quoting a CCP employee, twice. How you fail to be objective, is for your reflection. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > CCP looking at reducing ganking mechanics does not mean they will be changing EULA definitions. You’re conflating two separate things No one is talking about _ganking mechanics_ here. You and I both are talking about policy. Come read the content of your own original question where you talk about the behavior _relating to the EULA_ – a matter of _policy_ not _game mechanics_ (the latter of which is governed by rules around _exploits_ – neither of us are discussing this): > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Ask him though. @CCP_Rattati, in the following slide, when you labelled some highsec PvP as griefing, were you only talking about behaviour that is currently against the EULA, or were you talking about a subset of highsec PvP that is currently allowed within the EULA? Is answered by the following CCP employee post-fanfest about _POLICY_: > [@GM's holding strangers accountable for toxic behavior](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gms-holding-strangers-accountable-for-toxic-behavior/371089/27): > > To be abundantly clear: there has been no policy change for ganking > [@GM's holding strangers accountable for toxic behavior](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/gms-holding-strangers-accountable-for-toxic-behavior/371089/27): > > Asymmetric PvP, as well as ganking, is still allowed in EVE. I look forward to debunking your further squirming out of this one. Somehow you cannot say “thanks, I stand corrected” and let everyone leave it at that. ---
**Author:** ![Bingo\_mate](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bingo_mate/32/336857_2.png) [@Bingo\_mate](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bingo_mate)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 8:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1695 "2022-10-05T20:59:23Z")
Most Griefers I encountered in high sec are gankers mostly from code and now safety. So how about Ganking is not griefing but griefing in high sec is mostly done by gankers. I think ganking should be restricted to systems below 0.6 so that the gankers have some place to gank and the new player can have the rest of safe haven? ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 9:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1697 "2022-10-05T21:02:58Z")
> [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](#): > > Unless you mean the Level 1 or Level 2 Mission Hubs? I didn’t consider that. The mission hubs ( places like Trossere ) are all protected areas for noobs. Gosh…look at all those brand new noobs being ganked by NPCs ! Lucas…Jesse…where’s your howls of protest ?.. ( by the way, one player gank I see is not of a noob, and the other one is an 8 day old player ganking a 60 day old player ! That’s the spirit ! ) > **[Trossere | System](https://zkillboard.com/system/30042715/)** > > Trossere: 40,000 ships destroyed and 0 ships lost. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013.md?page=69) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013.md?page=71)