# Proposal for Rebalancing of the Suicide Gank **URL:** \ **Category:** Crime & Punishment\ **Tags:** high-sec\ **Created:** [June 24, 2022, 9:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013 "2022-06-24T09:28:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 71
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 9:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1698 "2022-10-05T21:15:18Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > In and around career agent systems, which is where the majority of ganking occurs within a few jumps of career agent systems, more often than not in common travel routes between them or between career agent systems and trade hubs. Ah, in other words, new players are being ganked either within the rules or outside of them? If outside the rules, it is a matter already decided, by CCP. Appropriate punishment will follow. If new players are being ganked within the rules - no matter where the gank takes place - then no rules have been broken, and thus - though you may dislike it - CCP will not act. Anyway, who can tell a genuinely new player from a crusty old veteran cheapskate? Not this’n Sir! ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 9:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1700 "2022-10-05T21:25:15Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Thanks for your opinion rookie. It’s weird then that when you go around looking at reviews and discussions about EVE elsewhere there’s a common trend that players dislike the griefing aspect of the game and how veteran players attack new players, and pretty much nothing about being put off by players opposing the same on the forums. Oh? Drop the links. Let us read it too 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Yeah it’s localised to areas newbies tend to be. Because that’s the primary target pool for gankers. Except it isn’t? I’m super confused as to why you keep pushing this lie LOL. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Noone ignores this, it’s just been categorically proven that the effect on a new players of being killed by an NPC is far, far, far less sever than the effect of being oneshot by a veteran player for no reason. Oh? Where? You got that proof or 😃 > [@T\_Elliot](#): > > You just gloss over the fact that education fixes this. Part of being a new player is that you don’t know how to protect yourself. But if people demand to change the game to keep new bros from making mistakes the game will loose all of the qualities that make it fun, and new bros will never learn. He not only glosses over it, he refuses to educate or help the nubs 😃 I mean he was out right griefing Omni, who is a nub. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > You’re conflating two separate things just because Rattati used the word “griefing” to descript profitless ganking of new players. Exactly. Griefing isn’t ganking 😃 > [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](#): > > Where do new players ‘tend to be’? I dunno man. Aiko was in Uedama last night and def wasn’t killing noobs. She did bag a nestor tho 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Nope. It’s just that it’s pointless. Other games you learn the mechanics of the game. You don’t join and on day 1 have to start learning how to not be used as fodder by some bored sociopath. Course you do. Its EVE 😃 That is a mechanic of the game 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I disagree. I don’t think there’s anything fun for newbros in getting oneshot by veteran players for no reason. Cept they aren’t 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > So if ganking were removed, you’d quit ethe game, would you? Yep. 100%. Cause all the other playstyles wouldn’t be too far behind 😃 But you knew that already. You want EVE to fail cause you can’t muster up the will to actually quit LOL. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Multiple times I’ve pushed for balancing changes, or for limitations on scope of ganking. Every single time I get attacked, insulted and sometimes doxed by gankers upset at me being allowed an opinion. So forgive me if I no longer feel the urge to find a compromise with these lunatics. I doubt that Rroff. You don’t matter enough 😃 > [@Bingo\_mate](#): > > Most Griefers I encountered in high sec are gankers mostly from code and now safety. So how about Ganking is not griefing but griefing in high sec is mostly done by gankers. I think ganking should be restricted to systems below 0.6 so that the gankers have some place to gank and the new player can have the rest of safe haven? Hello Obvious Alt 😃 Maybe just learn to play? Kthx 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > CCP have stated their intention to reduce ganking and that ganking new players affects retention. They also tend to reimburse ganked ships if people raise tickets, new or old. To say they won’t act is disingenuous at best. You got any proof or They reimburse ganked ships? ROFL. Bro you know you don’t gotta lie right? ---
**Author:** ![T\_Elliot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/t_elliot/32/453851_2.png) [@T\_Elliot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/T_Elliot)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 9:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1701 "2022-10-05T21:31:06Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Nope. It’s just that it’s pointless. Other games you learn the mechanics of the game. You don’t join and on day 1 have to start learning how to not be used as fodder by some bored sociopath. Other games that are not non consentual pvp centric that may be true. Thankfully EvE is different that most other MMO’s out there. I realize from your attempts at driving off new bros in other posts that it is not the game for you Lucas, but many people love EvE, and don’t want to see sweeping changes in it. As I said in the other thread I have an alpha alt that I am having a blast with. New bros in Alpha accounts can learn to do fun and exciting things from day 1 in EvE. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I disagree. I don’t think there’s anything fun for newbros in getting oneshot by veteran players for no reason. It stings the first time one gets their ship shot out from under them. But if people reflect on what happened and learned from their mistakes, they will improve, and it won’t happen. My Alpha alt has to run like scared cat when vets come into my systems looking for fights, but so what. They can’t catch me, and I have fun escaping from their attacks. Just because _you_ can’t learn from your mistakes and have fun does not mean that no one else can. Quit trying to poison the well please. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I can’t quote you pushing back against any of the changes that CCP made that damaged the player driven economy. And I can’t quote you saying that you are against cannibalisms! OMG you are a thrill-kill werewolf-cult cannibal (or maybe that is just a bunch of silly nonsense, but you never know). > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > So if ganking were removed, you’d quit ethe game, would you? I am not sure if I would quit, but I would miss it. Honestly it might be a straw that would break the old camels back. I am hoping the new FW additions are going to be fun though. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > 🤣 🤣 Back in 2012 maybe, any time before that and the numbers are way down. Well to be honest I was thinking back in 2004 or 2005. I remember being surprised the first time I realized that high sec space was not safe space. Of course it was alpha thrashers that I saw ganking people back then. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Safety on their own score about 2k highsec kills every month. That’s hardly rare. Compared to the total number of kills in EvE in a month, it does not seem that common either. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > First off, maybe. You can’t be sure how they’d react if they lost something after they’d built up the infrastructure to build back. CCPs view is that a key factor is their lack of ability to bootstrap back, and other MMOs would tend to agree, which is why losses for new players tend to be limited or removed. First off, I agree that I don’t know for sure how strangers react. I don’t know for sure how I would react to something. But I have had friends who do not like EvE because of the non consentual pvp. They also did not playing on the red server in EQ, and did not like playing Shadowbane. These friends just did not like nonconsensual PvP. They love playing in the WoW battle grounds though, and honest don’t understand why I can’t stand WoW. Some people don’t like non consensual PvP. EvE is one of the only games to survive that is built around non consensual PvP. You are not going to get my friends that hate EvE to play EvE without turning EvE into Wow. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Secondly the “You don’t play how I play therefore EVE is not for you” is a dumb argument, not least of which because it doesn’t actually solve the problem that CCP is currently facing with a shocking lack of retention. EVE won’t be fore anyone if PA pulls the plug. Secondly, you know, making strawmen is even dumber. At no point do I say I don’t want people who don’t play EvE like me to leave EvE. I just don’t want EvE to be turned into something else to please people who don’t like to play EvE. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > That really depends on the mechanic. If people were playing and their ships kept randomly exploding and someone said "oh yeah, you just have to go into the menu and untick ‘randomly self-destruct my ship’ " then that’s something that should be removed as it’s not actually adding engaging gameplay. Similarly with ganking, it’s not an engaging mechanic. It’s stupidly easy for gankers and utterly pointless for those being ganked, and there’s no actually counter play, just “yeah, avoid that”. You’re the one who wants to drive out gankers because you don’t think that their game style is engaging for you! And just after you tried to strawman me with the same argument. I have seen MacGybo’s videos, and I don’t have the patience to do what he does. I have seen Aiko’s catalyst fleet looking for targets, and I don’t have the patience to do what she does. Just because it is not for me does not mean their playstyles should be nerfed Lucas! In the other thread you admitted you wanted to drive off the new bros and see EvE fail. Why are you trying to poison a game that so many love with your toxicity just because you don’t like some people’s play styles. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Multiple times I’ve pushed for balancing changes, or for limitations on scope of ganking. Every single time I get attacked, insulted and sometimes doxed by gankers upset at me being allowed an opinion. So forgive me if I no longer feel the urge to find a compromise with these lunatics. As pleasant as you have been with me Lucas, I can see why you have made such a good impression on others. ---
**Author:** ![Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sasha_nemtsov/32/393707_2.png) [@Sasha\_Nemtsov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sasha_Nemtsov)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 9:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1702 "2022-10-05T21:31:32Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > They also tend to reimburse ganked ships if people raise tickets, new or old. To say they won’t act is disingenuous at best. No, not disingenuous. I rarely write loosely, and even more rarely, insincerely. I said ‘CCP will not act’, and your comprehension skills should note this as contrasting with ‘Appropriate punishment will follow’, ending the previous paragraph. Reimbursing/replacing lost items, does not punish the ganker. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 10:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1704 "2022-10-05T22:16:31Z")
> [@T\_Elliot](#): > > In the other thread you admitted you wanted to drive off the new bros and see EvE fail. Why are you trying to poison a game that so many love with your toxicity just because you don’t like some people’s play styles. Because he’s starved for joy and wants to inflict his pain on others. Remember, this is a dude who can’t giggle man. It’s just sad really. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Their mistake is playing a game where veteran players are allowed to farm new players. That’s every game in existence LOL. Veteran players have the advantage until the nub becomes a veteran too. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > You used to be able to go system to system and see people AFK mining all day in T1 haulers Oh. Did you find it on the box yet or > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Ganking was only really done for profit, revenge or strategic gain, which is how it should be now. Unfortunately everyone rejected from other MMOs for griefing have figured out that they can grief all they want here. ROFL. You got any proof or. It’s a nice _opinion_ you got there 😃 Strange how Aiko was making crazy profit last night. How does that figure for you? > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I’m more than happy for their gameplay to be balanced so it actually takes effort and for it to be geared towards profitable kills rather than newbies. Cept it’s already done for profit. Everyone knows this but you Rroff 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 10:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1705 "2022-10-05T22:18:42Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Other games you learn the mechanics of the game. You don’t join and on day 1 have to start learning how to not be used as fodder by some bored sociopath. What ? I got shot by a sniper within 2 seconds of joining Call Of Duty. I got massacred the first time I entered a Counterstrike arena. Even as far back as Team Fortress I got trounced on first entering a game I hadn’t a clue of the mechanics for. You clearly haven’t played many online games. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 10:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1706 "2022-10-05T22:20:35Z")
I got murdered within my first few minutes on a MUD I played the first time 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 10:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1708 "2022-10-05T22:23:02Z")
Um. Every single game mode in CoD has death. So are you saying now you’re some sort of CoD wizard who never dies? ROFL. When will the lying stop? It makes you look ridiculous LOL. Also uh, you gave yourself away again in terms of not knowing terminology 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 10:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1709 "2022-10-05T22:32:01Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > He’s not just ganking to wind up some newbie. Thus speaks the person who _has_ actually ( self admittedly ) ganked noobs…when none of us have. Lets have ‘hypocrisy’ be the word of the day, instead of ‘nope’. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 10:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1712 "2022-10-05T22:38:41Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I’m AFK mining and playing Fallout 4 but you just happened to post Let’s not forget everyone that lucas is here for our entertainment! 🙃 Otherwise, the forums would be mostly dead. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 10:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1713 "2022-10-05T22:46:14Z")
> [@MB\_ThePhotographer](#): > > Let’s not forget everyone that lucas is here for our entertainment! 🙃 > > Otherwise, the forums would be mostly dead. Oh Grampy Kells Rroff is very entertaining 😃 ---
**Author:** ![T\_Elliot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/t_elliot/32/453851_2.png) [@T\_Elliot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/T_Elliot)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 11:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1714 "2022-10-05T23:50:26Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Yeah, in that they openly allow griefing. Ok gloomer. You know this game is built around PvP right? > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Good for you. Sure, I imagine that some newbies can indeed have fun for free with Alphas. Nowhere near enough fun to actually justify paying for the game though 99% of the time, hence the tragic retention rate. Ok gloomer, lets try to make people having fun in a fun game a negative now. That’s not a silver lining! Its a big droopy dark rain cloud. ☹ > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Their mistake is playing a game where veteran players are allowed to farm new players. Oh nose, you new bros can’t possibly have fun because of the competition. The gloomy rain god has spoken! No more having fun! It is impossible! > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Right so then if they remove ganking and gain new players, and then players like you don’t quit, CCP are up on players. Where’s the downside? Or maybe it will be the exodus of myself and many other veterans. You just want to spin everything so you can have your way against everyone else. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Yeah because the last time they redid FW it was a blast. There’s a deep amount of sarcasm there in case you missed it. I expect nothing but sarcasm and cynicism from you Lucas. No worries man, I got it. You want to see EvE fail. You already said so. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Not even remotely close to modern numbers, what are you on about? You used to be able to go system to system and see people AFK mining all day in T1 haulers. Ganking was only really done for profit, revenge or strategic gain, which is how it should be now. Unfortunately everyone rejected from other MMOs for griefing have figured out that they can grief all they want here. And thus the dark time of the Gankpocolypse came, and behold Lucas, the dark and gloomy profit of doom is hear to warn everyone that they can not have fun unless the parts of the game Lucas does not like are removed! You talk a lot about numbers, but don’t offer any. At least I admit when I am making statements based on my memory. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Noones suggesting it’s a majority of kills but it’s still fairly significant, particularly considering the low number of players doing the ganking. It does not seem even significant to me gloomer. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I’m curious, what would be the downside of letting them pay for omega subs to come sit in safety shooting red triangle or running epic arcs? I’m of the view that EVE would be better if there were a safe area so that PvE players who don’t enjoy combat PvP can be catered to alongside everyone else, but the combat PvP absolutists seem to think that the ability for someone to safely shoot red triangles make the game unplayable for them. Surely it’d be better to cater to them then try to encourage them to branch out once they are settled? Well the only one who is not letting them pay for omega accounts is themselves, because EvE’s "shooting at red triangles or running epic arcs (that mostly involve shooting red triangles and delivering packages) is dull compared the the raiding of even EQ let along WoW or FF. Lucas they would rather play EQ P1999 than mine space rocks or shoot red triangles in safety. The thing that EvE has is the PvP! EvE’s PvE is repetitive and can not compete with EQ p1999, let alone a modern MMO. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Every change CCP makes does this. EVE is not the EVE it was a year ago, and then it wasn’t what it was the year before, and so on. Change is inevitable. You just don’t get it Gloomcas. EvE, at its core, is a PvP game. This is the thing that you don’t want, and removing it will destroy the best parts of EvE. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I’m more than happy for their gameplay to be balanced so it actually takes effort and for it to be geared towards profitable kills rather than newbies. My default of “remove ganking” is purely because trying to find a compromise with gankers is like trying to demolish a building by ramming your face into it. Are you kidding? Tell me you know nothing about ganking! High Sec Suicide ganking is balanced. You just want to remove it. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > MacGybo engages in the type of ganking I think should be encouraged, because he ganks for profit. He’s not just ganking to wind up some newbie. Well then why don’t you figure out how to nerf this mythical ganking without destroying it for everyone else? I don’t want you to ruin my fun of being chased just because you don’t approve of someone else’s game play. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Pretty much anyone that has anything negative to say about ganking gets treated how I’m treated. It’s just the reality of trying to push back against griefers. Lucas, my interactions with you have been full of you lying to me, lying about me, using false arguments and rhetorical tricks when you can’t get out of things, straw manning me, and then you attacking new bros saying you want to drive them out of the game. It is not that you are against ganking man, it is your attitude. ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2022, 11:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1715 "2022-10-05T23:54:42Z")
> [@T\_Elliot](#): > > you attacking new bros saying you want to drive them out of the game. What’s funny is the only person I have seen griefing in game or out of it since coming back is Lucas 😃 ---
**Author:** ![T\_Elliot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/t_elliot/32/453851_2.png) [@T\_Elliot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/T_Elliot)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2022, 12:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1717 "2022-10-06T00:07:24Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Not what I said. > > I got bored reading through the rest as it was all the same desperate attempts to spin and misrepresent what I said so you didn’t have to form a proper counterpoint. When you learn how to engage in a rational debate let me know. On the plus side you probably hit a forum record for most strawmen in a single comment. > [@New user thoughts](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/new-user-thoughts/379378/16): > > Hopefully all of them. I genuinely pity new players who come along to EVE and start pouring money into it because it will fail to deliver on every single promise. New players are effectively paying to be content for bored veterans, so I overwhelmingly urge potential new players to play something else until CCP put in the effort to make EVE more entertaining for newbros and casual players. Hmmm one plus one equals, hmmm its on the tip of my tongue. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2022, 12:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1719 "2022-10-06T00:29:47Z")
At least we know where you get your numbers from now! 😄 ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2022, 12:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1720 "2022-10-06T00:32:54Z")
> [@MB\_ThePhotographer](#): > > Let’s not forget everyone that lucas is here for our entertainment! Ricky Gervais talking about death is more entertaining. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2022, 12:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1721 "2022-10-06T00:36:45Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > PvP as in “hurr durr I must shoot everything” The only true form of PvP… [![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/1/0/d/10d01bea0e856e93292d4c4c4d5364effc41cca4.jpeg "EVERY EXTERMINATE! - Doctor Who Supercut") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=843y5u2pFOs) ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2022, 12:42am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1722 "2022-10-06T00:42:28Z")
Here’s another thing. Were a very small crowd on the forums. He only has an audience of what now? I asked the ISD as to how many ppl were on the forums per avg yrs ago. It was apx 150. Now we have 15? 🫣 I know it’s more than that, but you get what I mean. Thats why I get such a good chuckle outta them. It’s entertaining to me to simply watch the rants, or in _some_ cases, meltdown. ---
**Author:** ![ISD\_Golem](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/isd_golem/32/376192_2.png) [@ISD\_Golem](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ISD_Golem)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2022, 12:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1723 "2022-10-06T00:57:52Z")
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**Author:** ![ISD\_Golem](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/isd_golem/32/376192_2.png) [@ISD\_Golem](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ISD_Golem)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2022, 12:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013/1724 "2022-10-06T00:58:32Z")
As this has devolved into attacks. Closing the thread ### **3. Post constructively.** Negative feedback can be very useful to further improve EVE Online if it is presented in a civil and factual manner. All users are encouraged to honestly express their feelings regarding EVE Online and how it can be improved. Posts that are non-constructive, insulting or in breach of the rules will be deleted regardless of how valid the ideas behind them may be. Users are also reminded that posting with a lack of content also constitutes non-constructive posting. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposal-for-rebalancing-of-the-suicide-gank/368013.md?page=70)