# Proposals Regarding Wrecks and Cargo Containers Containing Living Persons **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [May 10, 2019, 8:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposals-regarding-wrecks-and-cargo-containers-containing-living-persons/158164 "2019-05-10T20:10:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Che\_Biko](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/che_biko/32/500836_2.png) [@Che\_Biko](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Che_Biko)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2019, 8:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposals-regarding-wrecks-and-cargo-containers-containing-living-persons/158164/1 "2019-05-10T20:10:49Z")
A number of capsuleers and non-capsuleers would like the Inner Circle to consider the contents of the attached document. > [Proposals Regarding Wrecks and Cargo Containers Containing Living Persons](https://docs.google.com/document/d/11TQWPjUrWhVDTvdPFfw7h2TTm7Cxcz_X9lTWc8Zf4V8/edit?usp=sharing) @Aux_Aliette You are requested to forward this document to the Inner Circle. ---
**Author:** ![Che\_Biko](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/che_biko/32/500836_2.png) [@Che\_Biko](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Che_Biko)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2019, 5:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposals-regarding-wrecks-and-cargo-containers-containing-living-persons/158164/2 "2019-07-01T17:27:33Z")
FYI: if there are those, who are not among the 46 who have placed their signature on the document, that want to voice their support for these proposals they are of course welcome to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Tamiroth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tamiroth/32/277869_2.png) [@Tamiroth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tamiroth)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2019, 10:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposals-regarding-wrecks-and-cargo-containers-containing-living-persons/158164/3 "2019-07-01T22:18:19Z")
> [@Che\_Biko](#): > > FYI: if there are those, who are not among the 46 who have placed their signature on the document, that want to voice their support for these proposals they are of course welcome to do so. I’d like to sign the document as well. - Dame Alet Tamiroth Azaph of Qarad Nasamih, Danera V, Khanid Kingdom, Member of Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque [SFRIM]. ---
**Author:** ![Nahine\_Heluene](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nahine_heluene/32/144750_2.png) [@Nahine\_Heluene](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nahine_Heluene)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2019, 11:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposals-regarding-wrecks-and-cargo-containers-containing-living-persons/158164/4 "2019-07-01T23:02:08Z")
Signed in opposition to the criminalization of moral acts. No ■■■■■■■■ titles, just a name. ---
**Author:** ![Lyra\_North-Onren](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lyra_north-onren/32/294285_2.png) [@Lyra\_North-Onren](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lyra_North-Onren)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2019, 11:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposals-regarding-wrecks-and-cargo-containers-containing-living-persons/158164/5 "2019-07-01T23:28:47Z")
You can add my name to the list. Don’t need to add any titles. ---
**Author:** ![Nauplius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nauplius/32/403015_2.png) [@Nauplius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nauplius)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 12:32am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposals-regarding-wrecks-and-cargo-containers-containing-living-persons/158164/6 "2019-07-02T00:32:19Z")
I, Nauplius, do hereby OPPOSE this proposal that infringes upon the rights of Holders to dispose their _property_ — for that is what slaves are — however they see fit. It is no surprise that so many PIE and SFRIM members, abolitionists all of them, would seek to strip Holders of their rights regarding slaves. ---
**Author:** ![Melisma\_Ramijozana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/melisma_ramijozana/32/168474_2.png) [@Melisma\_Ramijozana](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Melisma_Ramijozana)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 12:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposals-regarding-wrecks-and-cargo-containers-containing-living-persons/158164/7 "2019-07-02T00:37:19Z")
Please add the following capsuleers to the list (the document is view-only for us): Melisma Ramijozana Shorai Aikyoraan Ramijozana Renelle Ronuken ---
**Author:** ![Deitra\_Vess](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/deitra_vess/32/249726_2.png) [@Deitra\_Vess](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Deitra_Vess)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 1:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposals-regarding-wrecks-and-cargo-containers-containing-living-persons/158164/8 "2019-07-02T01:19:20Z")
Feel free to add my name, no titles required as titles are for people with something to prove. ---
**Author:** ![Lunarisse\_Aspenstar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lunarisse_aspenstar/32/478487_2.png) [@Lunarisse\_Aspenstar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lunarisse_Aspenstar)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 2:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposals-regarding-wrecks-and-cargo-containers-containing-living-persons/158164/9 "2019-07-02T02:41:38Z")
Nauplius this has to do with saving people, whether they be slaves, janitors, marines, slavers or damsels in distress from WRECKS and Concord setting you suspect. Nothing else. I guess the old saying is true. When a man only has a hammer all he sees are nails. Try reading next time? ---
**Author:** ![Lithara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lithara/32/268412_2.png) [@Lithara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lithara)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 2:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposals-regarding-wrecks-and-cargo-containers-containing-living-persons/158164/10 "2019-07-02T02:54:22Z")
Please attach my name. Lithara Baroness of the Chateau of the Sapphire Sun Lady of the Lake > [@Deitra\_Vess](#): > > Feel free to add my name, no titles required as titles are for people with something to prove. Firstly, I paid cash for mine, so I’m going to use them. Secondly, ♪neener neener neener neener!♫ ---
**Author:** ![Phaedrus\_Vokan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/phaedrus_vokan/32/144788_2.png) [@Phaedrus\_Vokan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Phaedrus_Vokan)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 4:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposals-regarding-wrecks-and-cargo-containers-containing-living-persons/158164/11 "2019-07-02T04:03:21Z")
Legatus Phaedrus Vokan hereby signs this document in opposition to the wanton slaughter of helpless lives stranded in space. ---
**Author:** ![Nauplius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nauplius/32/403015_2.png) [@Nauplius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nauplius)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 3:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposals-regarding-wrecks-and-cargo-containers-containing-living-persons/158164/12 "2019-07-02T15:23:22Z")
Is it not the right of a Holder to _dispose_ of his _property_ by loading it into a freighter or industrial, destroying that ship, and then destroying the resulting wreck? Must Holders who choose to dispose their _property_ in such fashion suffer the indignity of a _suspect flag_, so that abolitionist capsuleers might attack them merely for exercising their _noble rights_? ---
**Author:** ![Utari\_Onzo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/utari_onzo/32/378493_2.png) [@Utari\_Onzo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Utari_Onzo)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 3:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposals-regarding-wrecks-and-cargo-containers-containing-living-persons/158164/13 "2019-07-02T15:45:17Z")
I’ll happily sign this document ---
**Author:** ![Melisma\_Ramijozana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/melisma_ramijozana/32/168474_2.png) [@Melisma\_Ramijozana](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Melisma_Ramijozana)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 5:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposals-regarding-wrecks-and-cargo-containers-containing-living-persons/158164/14 "2019-07-02T17:12:48Z")
bitch you ent a holder ---
**Author:** ![Tamiroth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tamiroth/32/277869_2.png) [@Tamiroth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tamiroth)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 8:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposals-regarding-wrecks-and-cargo-containers-containing-living-persons/158164/15 "2019-07-02T20:24:56Z")
> [@Melisma\_Ramijozana](#): > > ■■■■■ you ent a holder He’s a Navy veteran, from the same planet as me, and a commoner who went completely insane over quite a few issues. That must have been related to someone under him and Minmatar by blood, maybe, a slave crew member during his service. And, yes, he’s certainly isn’t a Holder of any kind. I suspect his mental state was the reason for being discharged from the Navy. …I so miss my father. I’d wish Captain Ynir Azaph and that rotting husk of a sailor had _a few words in private_. I’d love to see younger and not so immortal version of Naups beaten into bloody pulp for whatever dung his disgusting mind constantly produces because it just can’t help itself. 😑 ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 4:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposals-regarding-wrecks-and-cargo-containers-containing-living-persons/158164/16 "2019-07-03T04:38:34Z")
Interesting proposition. I wonder, why you never were advertising it or bringing for discussion? Anyway, It’s a good offer, mindless slaughter shall stop. However, I found a fatal flaw in it: “1. Make damaging a wreck or cargo container with living persons on board a crime.” IMHO for this part conditions shall apply. For example, damaging a wreck of a war target or enemy of the faction (for example, a wreck of someone with standing below 0 in Caldari State) shall not be considered a crime. In the present form that proposal contains more danger and undermining of the war effort rather than profit: it can do more harm to Caldari people for letting occupants and aggressors escape and thus at the current time I can’t put my signature under it until it will be changed accordingly. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Constantin\_Baracca](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/constantin_baracca/32/170074_2.png) [@Constantin\_Baracca](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Constantin_Baracca)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 12:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposals-regarding-wrecks-and-cargo-containers-containing-living-persons/158164/17 "2019-07-03T12:44:03Z")
That’s a rational objection. Not something I deal with often, obviously, but rational. ---
**Author:** ![Melisma\_Ramijozana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/melisma_ramijozana/32/168474_2.png) [@Melisma\_Ramijozana](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Melisma_Ramijozana)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 1:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposals-regarding-wrecks-and-cargo-containers-containing-living-persons/158164/18 "2019-07-03T13:51:48Z")
Not if there is one low sec-status person on a wreck with 2 innocent people. I would even let Chakaid go if that was the case. _No one life is worth more than the next._ And especially not as regards _Caldari_ security status. You can get your Caldari sec status knocked down just for sneezing in the wrong direction. ---
**Author:** ![Constantin\_Baracca](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/constantin_baracca/32/170074_2.png) [@Constantin\_Baracca](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Constantin_Baracca)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 1:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposals-regarding-wrecks-and-cargo-containers-containing-living-persons/158164/19 "2019-07-03T13:58:55Z")
I don’t think Commander Kim is looking for a reason to kill more innocent people. I think she’s a bit more worried about some violent criminal jettisoning himself in a can and essentially escaping justice while some hapless rescuer comes along to help them. I mean, ideas about one person’s criminal being another’s savior aside, we really don’t need serial killers gift boxing themselves while leaving no recourse. Again, not something we deal with, but not outside the bounds of what Commander Kim deals with. ---
**Author:** ![Melisma\_Ramijozana](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/melisma_ramijozana/32/168474_2.png) [@Melisma\_Ramijozana](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Melisma_Ramijozana)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 2:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposals-regarding-wrecks-and-cargo-containers-containing-living-persons/158164/20 "2019-07-03T14:00:44Z")
> [@Constantin\_Baracca](#): > > I don’t think Commander Kim is looking for a reason to kill more innocent people. I think she’s a bit more worried about some violent criminal […] I don’t think she can tell the difference. [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proposals-regarding-wrecks-and-cargo-containers-containing-living-persons/158164.md?page=2)