# Protection for newbies required **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [September 28, 2018, 8:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/protection-for-newbies-required/109886 "2018-09-28T20:29:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Galaxy\_Chicken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/galaxy_chicken/32/45651_2.png) [@Galaxy\_Chicken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Galaxy_Chicken)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2018, 2:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/protection-for-newbies-required/109886/251 "2018-10-05T14:37:10Z")
Dude, you have years of posting history advocating for the pussification of this game. I really don’t know where you get off claiming otherwise. It’s a matter of public record. ---
**Author:** ![Dravick\_Afterthought](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dravick_afterthought/32/282017_2.png) [@Dravick\_Afterthought](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dravick_Afterthought)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2018, 3:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/protection-for-newbies-required/109886/252 "2018-10-05T15:38:21Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Not my thread Then you went off-topic - shame on you !! 😜 ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2018, 4:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/protection-for-newbies-required/109886/253 "2018-10-05T16:12:17Z")
> [@Hlamon](#): > > EvE is very small game in very big market. And with steady decline in population and, especially in paying customers base it will become even smaller. Let’s say there is 200 000 paying customers, 15$ each, it’s $3 mil per month before expenses. It will take 150 months to get money back on clear income, given we don’t have further population decline and having all expenses ignored.After all expenses it will be 20 years easely. 20 years to get money back from investment to 15 years old game, you really believe someone in clear mind will do such thing? > > PA don’t need EvE in it’s current state. It will change or it wil be put down. Translation: “I am soo butt hurt I hope this game shuts down just to get even” ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2018, 4:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/protection-for-newbies-required/109886/254 "2018-10-05T16:31:32Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > That’s why a massive portion of the playerbase now derives pleasure from griefing other players, quite literally gaining enjoyment from causing players to explode in fits of rage. That’s not a healthy place for a game to be. Look everyone more of Lucas’ facts. 😀 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > What they should be doing is finding better ways to get peole into the game and moving them into player content without basically throwing them in as food for the existing veteran playerbase. And as was asked before, how do you stop a veteran from take advantage of this “new approach”? > [@Lily\_Inkura](#): > > And this is the crux. Why? Why do they have to keep it going? No-one seems to allow that CCP might once have had a creative vision. One they thought would make money, true, but a vision nonetheless. And a sandbox, player-driven one at that. It is logical to think they are driven by the almighty ISK (even if converted to US$ in some offshore tax haven). But maybe, just _ **maybe** _ , they would rather let the game die naturally than bastardize their vision? And certainly a lot of commentators on these forums seem to be of the same opinion from the playerbase perspective. You want to change the game? Fine. Just don’t call it Eve. If CCP listened to Lucas and implemented changes to consistent with his arguments my guess is many veterans would leave the game. And let us not forget that Lucas is rather blinkered. By breaking up PLEX it actually makes it easier for a newer player to acquire PLEX (for ISK). PLEX also provide a mechanism to shift ISK from veteran players to newer players. Skill extractor/injectors provide a mechanism to shift SP from older players to newer players. Of course none of these things address the issue of player knowledge and skill…which can only really be acquired over time and via a trial-and-error process. And the errors are far more important than the successes. You learn more from an error/mistake than from a success. Trying to short circuit that trial-and-error process will not, in the end, help new players. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Not my thread Nobody said it was, but you did say the OP is right. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Not quite right but touché regardless. So much for facts. Quotes of what he wrote are not facts. Cripes. 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![Predvodnica\_LSG](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/predvodnica_lsg/32/63657_2.png) [@Predvodnica\_LSG](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Predvodnica_LSG)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2018, 6:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/protection-for-newbies-required/109886/255 "2018-10-05T18:37:57Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > If CCP listened to Lucas and implemented changes to consistent with his arguments my guess is many veterans would leave the game. Big deal, few sociopats less in game. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2018, 7:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/protection-for-newbies-required/109886/256 "2018-10-05T19:06:26Z")
There may very well be no game jackass. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2018, 9:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/protection-for-newbies-required/109886/259 "2018-10-05T21:05:58Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > He’s wrong anyway. Most veterans have proven that they will stick with it whatever happens. In fact the recent changes CCP have made have effectively dumped WoW style PvE into the game and introduced P2W and even that hasn’t got them leaving. Isn’t this precious. Lucas complains about players leaving, but now they will never leave. Lucas…a person to whom up is also down. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2018, 9:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/protection-for-newbies-required/109886/261 "2018-10-05T21:07:35Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I don’t though. I have years of posting history where every time I suggest ganking should be harder I get a bunch of gank bears trying to strawman, and it sounds like you’ve read their misrepresentations of my position and taken it a fact. That is because you do not understand risk and that freighter ganks are the result of players taking on massive amounts of risk. If you take on massive risk then you are eventually going to suffer a massive loss. In other words, making something harder because some players are stupid…is itself stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Nevyn\_Auscent](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nevyn_auscent/32/255124_2.png) [@Nevyn\_Auscent](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nevyn_Auscent)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2018, 9:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/protection-for-newbies-required/109886/262 "2018-10-05T21:22:04Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > That is because you do not understand risk and that freighter ganks are the result of players taking on massive amounts of risk. If you take on massive risk then you are eventually going to suffer a massive loss. In other words, making something harder because some players are stupid…is itself stupid. Ignoring the risk factor, there are issues with how ganks go down. The gameplay is all in the pre gank, almost 0 in the gank now. That gameplay weighting should be moved far more towards the gank time. Which does admittedly involve things like increasing the gank timer to allow more time to respond and make more than just DPS matter on the gank ship. And giving industrials significant measures of self defense rather than this stupid meta of ‘You have to have an alt or very close friend you can punch in the face if they betray you’ that we currently have. Yes Industrials shouldn’t be true combat ships, but for the purposes of EVE they should be combat vessels, spanish main era or WW2 engineering tanks. (Heck even the Viking longboats were one of the cargo vessels of the day) Rather than based off modern day ships who are designed for a fairly safe era. N.B. This is not to say less ganking needs to happen, just that what a gank looks like should change. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2018, 10:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/protection-for-newbies-required/109886/264 "2018-10-05T22:16:33Z")
> [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > Ignoring the risk factor, there are issues with how ganks go down. Ignoring the risk factor is like ignoring 99% of the problem. If players using freighters simply avoided taking such extreme risks the number of ganks would drop precipitously…and at that point, who cares. > [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > And giving industrials significant measures of self defense rather than this stupid meta of ‘You have to have an alt or very close friend you can punch in the face if they betray you’ that we currently have. You only need those if you need to move 12 billion ISK in cargo value and then that is absolutely not an outlandish requirement. People moving 2-3 billion ISK capitals in NS rely on scouts. And please lets not get into the empty freighters get ganked. Yes, they do…rarely. > [@Nevyn\_Auscent](#): > > Yes Industrials shouldn’t be true combat ships, but for the purposes of EVE they should be combat vessels, spanish main era or WW2 engineering tanks. You can already tank freighters. Problem is that most of the ganked freighters are _not_ tanked. If anything they are anti-tanked. This issue is not mechanical it is behavioral. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Nope. You are wrong. Whatever you say cupcake. ---
**Author:** ![Galaxy\_Chicken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/galaxy_chicken/32/45651_2.png) [@Galaxy\_Chicken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Galaxy_Chicken)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2018, 12:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/protection-for-newbies-required/109886/266 "2018-10-06T00:07:59Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I don’t though. Okay man, whatever you say. Keep denying what everyone here can independently verify. You said it yourself, sir; and I quote: > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I think they should make rookies safer That’s called pussification. Checkmate. I don’t know what else to do for you here. If this quote doesn’t suffice I would also refer interested parties to every other post you ever made on these forums or the old forums for pages and pages for years and years. ---
**Author:** ![Sanguinius\_Olacar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sanguinius_olacar/32/180563_2.png) [@Sanguinius\_Olacar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sanguinius_Olacar)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2018, 12:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/protection-for-newbies-required/109886/268 "2018-10-06T00:38:28Z")
Meh OP, read your massive whine post, and just need to say this. L2P, or leave, it is EvE, it is ruthless, it is tough, it is amazing, no one cares about sugar coating Eve for you, sink or swim, it it not meant for everyone. I played it a couple of years ago, and went straight to nullsec, loved it, the danger, and learned fast how to survive, look at the stars dude, do you think the universe out there is for care bears, and a safe zone, it will be like Eve, brutal and ruthless with good and bad. Defining people as psychopathic is stupid, the weak do not survive, in real life or in game, adapt and grow strong or be crushed. ---
**Author:** ![Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nicolai_serkanner/32/358049_2.png) [@Nicolai\_Serkanner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nicolai_Serkanner)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2018, 7:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/protection-for-newbies-required/109886/269 "2018-10-06T07:31:02Z")
We are finally saved from the Salvosing of topics, and now Kell is back. Poor forums. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2018, 9:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/protection-for-newbies-required/109886/271 "2018-10-06T09:22:03Z")
It’s called adversity and this game doesn’t protect you from it, which makes it special. Sorry you feel different about it. You should just find something more suitable to your mentality. EVE is a game for “die hard” players, hard learners, psychos and anyone willing to put up with it. It’s a game where you can test and improve your mental strength. Or you can complain and wish for something else. The choice is for each player to make, but it wouldn’t be EVE if it didn’t have this choice in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2018, 9:35am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/protection-for-newbies-required/109886/272 "2018-10-06T09:35:34Z")
People are still talking about this, despite it being clear to smart people, and the rest of the world outside of the west, that protecting children/new players like this is absolutely the wrong way to raise them! Keep talking, it’s funny! 😃 Aaaand I’m out of coffee! ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Kell](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lucas_kell/32/393556_2.png) [@Lucas\_Kell](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lucas_Kell)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2018, 9:44am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/protection-for-newbies-required/109886/273 "2018-10-06T09:44:16Z")
(O\_o) ---
**Author:** ![ISD\_Dorrim\_Barstorlode](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/isd_dorrim_barstorlode/32/361083_2.png) [@ISD\_Dorrim\_Barstorlode](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/ISD_Dorrim_Barstorlode)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2018, 10:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/protection-for-newbies-required/109886/281 "2018-10-06T10:05:10Z")
Removed some off topic posts. Keep it civil and on topic please. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2018, 10:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/protection-for-newbies-required/109886/284 "2018-10-06T10:10:06Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > It’s not though, you’re talking out of your backside. EVE was easy when most of us joined and because of that it’s now still easy because we have years of experience backing us up. No, I’m not talking out of my backside. EVE is still easy and my own experience is limited even after 9 years. I don’t know everything about EVE and I still find it easy. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2018, 10:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/protection-for-newbies-required/109886/286 "2018-10-06T10:14:22Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > You don;t know everything but you do have 9 years worth of experience and undoubtely a large enough net egg to replace anything you lose making silly mistakes. New players do not. No, it was never different. It was just the same for me when I started. Every game which offers some kind of progression, either with XP gains or just plain wealth, does allow the veteran to do more. You want a game without progression, then maybe play Rock, Paper & Scissor. ---
**Author:** ![Whitehound](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/whitehound/32/59604_2.png) [@Whitehound](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Whitehound)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2018, 10:40am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/protection-for-newbies-required/109886/288 "2018-10-06T10:40:52Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > If you started 9 years ago that’s objectively false. No, it’s not. I lost more ships at start, made mistakes, because I was dumb. I still make mistakes, I’m still being dumb in many ways and I still have to learn. This is what keeps the game interesting for me. You probably haven’t realised what it is that keeps you playing when you want to remove this. My guess is you’ve gotten complacent and seek to get your progress by complaining about the game, have it changed in ways to bring you more success rather than changing and adjusting yourself with each progress you’ve made. I guess you’re going to tell me again, “That doesn’t make sense”. But you already know what my answer will be. Even after 9 years do I still get wardecced. And why not? I’ve learned to dodge fights I cannot win. I even use those who wardec me and pay them to wardec my competition. I’ve adjusted and adapted, because this is how it’s played. You then wanting to talk about CCP’s business and player retention is a sad joke. You just want to see a drama where there isn’t one. The player numbers are increasing when you compare the summer holes of the last few years. We may not be seeing huge spikes around Christmas as we used to, but the numbers are actually getting more solid due to the regular drops being on a higher level. And that’s a good sign. Ganking isn’t a problem either. I haul and mine myself and haven’t lost a ship in a gank in years (attempts were made, but I prevailed!). I also use Red Frog and while they occasionally fail a contract do they get many to their destination. I don’t expect them to produce a 100% success rate. Why should I? Instead, I expect them to include loss into their price calculation and overall business plan, because that’s how you deal with adversity. Their business is booming and with contract queue sizes hitting 400+. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/protection-for-newbies-required/109886.md?page=11) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/protection-for-newbies-required/109886.md?page=13)