# Proving of Kybernauts for Glorification in the Flow Unfolds **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** feedback, devblog, official\ **Created:** [June 29, 2020, 1:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073 "2020-06-29T13:03:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Scoots\_Choco](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scoots_choco/32/262262_2.png) [@Scoots\_Choco](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scoots_Choco)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2020, 1:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/203 "2020-06-30T01:58:24Z")
> [@PopeUrban](#): > > There is literally no other reason I use it to collect intel and draft up reports on enemies in a certain region. ---
**Author:** ![Xialis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xialis/32/317767_2.png) [@Xialis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xialis)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2020, 2:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/204 "2020-06-30T02:01:02Z")
Wow, the forums are even saltier than normal when something, anything, gets announced! I’ve tried the current abyssal PvP arena, it was alright, but if you don’t bling the hell out of your ship you won’t have much chance at winning. The meta for these events will constantly change, unlike the current abyssal PvP which is very stale. Setting easily obtainable ship restrictions for a **LIMITED time event** seems fine. A series of tournaments that are accessible to all. The Alliance Tournament is/was great but _participating_ in it was very very limited. What will these pilots do when there isn’t an event running? Maybe they’ll go look for more PvP in non-instanced places. ---
**Author:** ![PopeUrban](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/popeurban/32/214111_2.png) [@PopeUrban](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/PopeUrban)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2020, 2:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/205 "2020-06-30T02:05:46Z")
This circles back to my original point. Your replay value has nothing to do with the sandbox and everything to do with a leaderboard mechanic. There’s nothing wrong with that, people like what they like. There IS something wrong with people complaining that arenas will somehow kill the sandbox when so much of the sandbox is already shaped BY said leaderboard mechanics. Personally, I don’t give a ■■■■ about leaderboards. I play sandbox games for loot and generally kill people for loot. Every PvP decision I’ve ever made in EVE comes down to isk lost versus gained. I probably won’t use these filaments because I am not now and have never been really interested in how much better at PvP I am than the people I’m shooting at. I’d prefer it if they were all zero tank AFK t1 haulers with 5b in implants in them. I’m just being honest here. I don’t have a problem with instanced arenas because they exist FOR people like you that just want to go out and fight over leaderboards. You can get more fights against more opponents and you know that every single fight is 100% committed to somebody’s spaceship exploding. I think that’s awesome for people that care more about measures of skill than ISK destroyed or gained. ---
**Author:** ![PopeUrban](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/popeurban/32/214111_2.png) [@PopeUrban](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/PopeUrban)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2020, 2:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/206 "2020-06-30T02:09:32Z")
You and me both 🙂 I’m assuming we both engage in this activity specifically to better prepare to lose less ships and generally engineer more favorable engagements right? My point here is you wouldn’t have that tool at your disposal if there wasn’t any data on it, and it wouldn’t have any data on it (and it wouldn’t exist at all) if people didn’t want to flex KMs in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Herzog\_Wolfhammer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/herzog_wolfhammer/32/452132_2.png) [@Herzog\_Wolfhammer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Herzog_Wolfhammer)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2020, 2:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/207 "2020-06-30T02:09:54Z")
In Soviet Russia, WoW goes back to YOU ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2020, 2:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/208 "2020-06-30T02:10:23Z")
i think most people in eve are cowards , most fights are 10v1 , but I’m at the end of that stick , I’m the one getting ganked , and them , one guy with no kills or losses come to give a lesson on why eve pvp suck, how its unfair , etc…not you, all i can say is, I’m a solo pilot , i killed more than i died against all odds ,500 mofos looked at dead in the face and saw me, don’t be soft , its fun ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2020, 2:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/209 "2020-06-30T02:39:57Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > Yes, so that the content is more accessible to more players. That’s a good thing. hmph, thats what Lucas Arts said about Star Wars Galaxy…wonder where that game went to? ---
**Author:** ![Aphrodite\_Sexy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aphrodite_sexy/32/420261_2.png) [@Aphrodite\_Sexy](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aphrodite_Sexy)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2020, 2:43am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/210 "2020-06-30T02:43:31Z")
I’ll be vetoing all the points I see that I do not think are legit. The points I like I clicked the heart button. > [@T\_rahk\_Rokym](#): > > I protest on this point. I have a friend that started eve online after seeing solo dread videos of lasker emmanuel. 2 years later he still doesn’t fly a dread but plays eve almost every day. Now, imagine what that friend would think if Lasker didn’t get stream sniped and got 0 fights for eternity. They would probably think the game is boring. > [@Steve\_Ronuken](#): > > I’ll just go and take the additional time to get out to a FW plex from wherever I am (Am I in High? Deep Null? A wormhole? Who knows?), oh, wait, I’m out of time. Yes, so use alts permadocked in Lowsec FW places (preferably not in a militia). This way, it costs time if you die, which is important because people PVP in 10 mil cheap ships so isk (and time to generate that isk) doesn’t matter. > [@Maja\_Chou](#): > > dont lie to yourself ccp have stopped going over the progess in making all starter contend new years ago > > etc How did you learn about EvE? Personally I was clueless, then I read every single EvE uni page and went off into lowsec to earn isk and get shot. I escaped a scram without knowing what a scram was. People are always learning, even as advanced players, and you can see this by how many players are clueless about jump timers (and new mechanics), so we should develop new players to learn by themselves. The tutorial is trash and the career agents are boring, but fix the tutorial, and let it point to lowsec or nullsec, or the epic arc, or other agents. > [@Steve\_Ronuken](#): > > Nope. > > Because people looking for people doing PvE aren’t looking for ‘a fair fight’ like they would find in the arena. > > That’s the point. Whatever Zhalyd said. There are no spies, no cheating, no scamming, no ganging up, no keyboard spamming, and probably no GFs (this is poetic because they probably don’t have a local channel, and people are too bored and the fights are too boring to GF. The GF is more like a “thank you for bringing me this fight”. You don’t see chivalry (or GFs) in CSGO. (And the GF is very fun. I got GFed when I got decced by hell dawn and lost something, and I GFed back.) > [@Orca\_Platypus](#): > > pvpers: We want more access to pvp. > CCP: Here’s pvp filaments. Instant action, boys. pvp on demand! Everything you wanted so hard from our old filaments! > pvpers: ( _inhale_ ) WHHHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINE!!! We didn’t ask that. We asked for better PVP atmosphere, like a revamp of FW or something. I don’t know the details but we never asked for easier fights. The needle jack filaments were a good idea though, I have to give them big credit on that. > [@Maja\_Chou](#): > > well this might be trugh but out of closed testservers or shiney dev presentations there is nothing on TQ Not vetoing this one. Just reminded me, we already have /moveme in SiSi. This feels like a /moveme, but even more fair. > [@TheRighteousOne](#): > > If you dont want to engage in this content then simply dont !! We want to engage in content, but it brings people who want to pvp away from our big world. We also want fights where we shoot something that shoots back, that’s what FW is for. You take those people to a little room where they fight in peace and now all the people we shoot are the ones with mining lasers. It gets boring. > [@TheRighteousOne](#): > > I only pvp in my own wh and that is it. Ok. That’s not a lot of PVP. Wormholes are notoriously empty. > [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > I’ve seen it happen in World of Warcraft where instanced battlegrounds reduced the amount of fights happening in the game world outside those battlegrounds. I’ve seen it happen in Runescape where the ‘duel anywhere’ option was the final straw for the fun fights at the duel arena. Thank you for bringing this up. Not vetoing this one either. Needed this evidence. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > I just need to learn how to PvP. I also need to learn how to PVP. I wish there’s a little sandbox to do it in, and when I get out I have no clue how to fight outnumbered. A little shoutout to my Alliance Free Range Chikuns, we do nano gangs and we kill stuff. I now know how to fight outnumbered (though most times it doesn’t work) (also I stand on my own, not for my alliance, just saying). Instawarping also helps. I have alts in FW who solo PVP, and I need to learn that too, but it’s not worth booshing everybody who wants to solo PVP. Also look to the next reply. > [@Uriel\_Paradisi\_Anteovnuecci](#): > > Only specific ships will be able to go in at any time, starting with a small selection of t1 cruisers for the first event and ONE TYPE of frigate in the second one. Yes, which furthers my idea that this is to create a safe space for newbro PVP. I want that but I don’t want that. It’s a good direction, but not a good thing to do. Revamp FW to encourage fights (even against people who are not in militia) (all kills by militia members inside a Plex gives them LP or something, you have the brains, ask whoever thought of the needlejack filaments, the actually good kind). Remember Tunudan? Make that a PVP hub. It’s all valid possibilities. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > any more than needlejack filaments stopped people from roaming. Needlejacks are FOR roaming. This is against roaming because with them there are no longer any time to roam. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > These are limited time events. Good. Make them 3 days at most and once every three months, give us a chance at fair PVP but bring us back to the sandbox. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > Leaderboards FINALLY that aren’t just zkill. Maybe give KB APIs a little more thought and make the zkill leaderboards more powerful? Like the best way to bling up your killboard now is to drive a smartbombing Dessie straight into the center of the combat and get one shot on everything. That needs to change. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > Try the filaments on sisi. We already have /moveme. That is a good idea. > [@Orca\_Platypus](#): > > What? Needlejacks are supposed to be limited time events, this was supposed to be permanent? Not vetoing this one. Love it. Also love needlejacks. Somehow bad things are permanent (someone’s gonna make a CODE/minerbumping.com reference.) > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > If these prove to be popular, I wouldn’t be surprised if they end up becoming permanent, too. NO! They will be popular. If they are not permanent I’ll be using them to try out new fits and just to get PVP experience and I’ll thank CCP. If they are permanent I’ll hate it because it PERMANENTLY brings people out of the sandbox (to a safe place that they never want to come out of again). > [@Maja\_Chou](#): > > there is realy the big Question will it Change the Sandbox to somehting else… and CCP must be realy carefull at this point to not kill New Eden The sandbox will still be the sandbox, but people enter it for the sole purpose of getting ships to blow into the conduits (if this change happens). > [@tutucox\_Khamsi](#): > > there a lot of cry about how they are "impossible’ to do with the resist nerf Apparently some idiots thought it was 20% off directly, like an “Multi^_(_^%$ Shield Hardener” (new name) giving 10% (30%-20%). > [@Scoots\_Choco](#): > > It’s a limited time event, stop whining. We’re all worried its gonna go permanent because it will be popular. It would be popular. > [@DrysonBennington](#): > > Such a perfect way to lure Capsuleers into the arena, loot and plunder along with status, all glittering grandeur as the Triglavians record ship types and pilots tactics, only to use on New Eden itself. > > Death to all Kybers. This is funny. Needs more love. > [@Senyu\_Takashi](#): > > How the hell is this “not interacting with the sandbox”??? It is interacting with the sandbox, but it is not PVP in the sandbox. Meaning less people PVP in the sandbox and everybody PVPs there. It’s less interesting to PVP there because it’s too easy to get a replacement ship/go in again. It becomes boring and like a MOBA, and EVE’s PVP sucks compared to that of a MOBA. It’s trying to compete with its weak points and would get flattened. > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > I majored in math, and do it for a living. Just want to highlight, that is important in EvE because of all the theory crafting (mathematical intuition). Also, in CSGO you have to aim, in any MOBA you need to click in the right spot. A nerd with a computer to calculate the best fit available is gonna win in the arena no matter what, because this is EVE, and finger skills do not matter (except when typing, I’m getting very tired). (also I CAN do that) Also, PM me in game. That qualification certainly helps in theory crafting, I wanna see what kinds of insight you got. > [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > It’s possible that if such arenas became a full time thing, the more popular it becomes the more ships are designed around arena gameplay to the detriment of the sandbox. Which is actually a good part about this abyssal PVP: balancing solo pvp. > [@Sideways\_Bottomsup](#): > > I suppose there _is_ a silver lining of sorts, in that the second shoe has dropped, and it looks very much like the first one. No longer do we have to wonder what the Trigs want, or why people were supposed to ‘help’ them without sufficient information as to the end goal. We can now safely assume that Trigs, and the people choosing to help them, are fighting for instanced gameplay in both PvE and PvP. Edencom, on the other hand, represents the sandbox. > > The lines have been drawn. Fight. XD. But trigs are also fighting for danger in the sandbox (which actually, suits your point incentivizing people to go instanced). Funny, good idea. > [@Agent\_Blackbear](#): > > HOW IS MORE OPTIONS TO PVP A BAD THING?!? The people crying about it sound insane to me. Because opportunity cost. Like ore you mine aren’t free. You take people who want to PVP outside of the sandbox, less people IN the sandbox. Less people to kill roaming around, and the only place I can find fights (easily meaning people would do it more) is the instance. This is bad because it reduces the effort of a fight, and makes the fight boring. If you ever reflected on PVP you’d see that PVP is boring. You click all the buttons and you range control. It’s exciting because you just spent an hour finding this fight. > [@tutucox\_Khamsi](#): > > no its not > and you appear to suˆ% at it Yes it is. Look above. The term F1 monkey is quite the explanation of that. The only person that needs to think is the FC. In solo PVP, see above. > [@Mike\_Azariah](#): > > ah but if you see a trace, sit there, knowing that damaged and maybe rich ships may be coming out. and within a set time. Out comes a newbro in a T1 cruiser. And it is Highsec. F. > [@Xeux](#): > > Perhaps… if the new filaments only work in the Trig systems. Otherwise those traces are going to be hard to hunt down. Good idea. Responds to the point above. Makes it dangerous. But still, not so, because the ships are cheap. So even gate campers wouldn’t do it. There are some people who just want kills who would do it, but those people are in the instances already. > [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > I’m more than convinced we have the very wrong people on CSM. Uhhh… FC what do? > [@tutucox\_Khamsi](#): > > i miss alliance tournament > if well done this can be cool > im with you pedro > do 1x1, 2x2 , 3x3, 5x5, variants > give GOOD prizes > once a year This could be fun. But then it’s not really alliance tournament, more like join our alliance with an alt and fight for us for our good prizes tournament. Alliance tournament is a good idea though, instant PVP like everybody wants, but still fun and not instanced. Speaking of which, remember Chappy’s birthday bash? Go to Tunadan, get instant fights. CCP, you see how people loved that event and got into instant PVP with fun fleet fights? Think again about this event. > [@Herzog\_Wolfhammer](#): > > If they want sandbox, go to nullsec. Oh wait, they can’t handle that. I went to nullsec. So did many other people. We shot bait covetors and we died. We killed ratters and we died. We died happily feeling the content in our bones. Contrary to the angry players who would lose to a blingy ship in the abyssal proving grounds because they want “fairness” > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > even if you can go into a filament for 15 or 20 minutes and do something else. Yes, but that time it was people who wanted PVE. This meant that we can at least get fights with people shooting back. No longer with this change. Maybe they are gonna be good, I’ll go try them out (but there is already /moveme as I said), but by my experience, it will probably be bad. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > The chasing people for half an hour was the fun part? Yes. Unironically, it is satisfying to 1. chase people for a turn and 2. when you kill them you feel much more satisfaction. Also, ever heard of interceptors/scrams? > [@Fish\_Hunter](#): > > Proving conduit players actions do have influence on the eco-system. They buy and lose stuff. They spend time doing this instead of other activities. Some may not like battle arenas but that’s exactly what AT was and nobody was ever mad about that. But the spending time doing other activities is outside the sandbox, and they are the rare gems who actually shoot people back for a turn. You are taking them to a place where other people cannot fight them. Boring. Also, my best PVP experience is when I warped in a plex when two people were shooting each other (apparently they were quite tanky). I immediately got two PMs lol. You don’t get that from abyssals. > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > At least WoW BG you can just keep playing. Here, every second match you play (assuming the matchmaker works well), you have to go out and grind out a bunch of PvE to replace your ship. Or, you know, [sell some PLEX.](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/happy-merchant) Don’t get mad at me, CCP, I’m quoting that in an academic context, because that’s what _everybody is thinking_ when you pull a stunt like this. Yes, that’s the comparative advantage of every other MOBA to EvE, also EvE has terrible PVP gameplay that is “like spreadsheets”. > [@PopeUrban](#): > > free intel and leaderboard mechanisms The fact that there is intel and not everybody knows everything is already sandbox. You also are switching the ideas around. We are criticizing the lack of sandbox only, not the leaderboard. We use the leaderboard and the killboard for intel, I don’t get how that is “anti sandbox”. > [@PopeUrban](#): > > while parsing dotlan and zkill data to dodge gatecamps We dodge gate camps. That’s sandbox, normal people who do not want a PVP timer because they are going to yeet, or people who want to not die, avoid gate camps. And the gatecampers are trying to kill the people who want shortcuts or don’t look. Also, etc. Blah blah blah about intel. Explain further why intel is bad to sandbox. Intel is intel, we know stuff about the enemy. Tsun Tsu said “know thy enemy, know thyself, and you will not fail a hundred battles” “知己知彼，百战不殆” Intel is vital, and Tsun Tzu said this in the context of the world, and the world is obviously a sandbox. - - Phew. This is very tiring. Sorry this is too long. My hands are sore lol. Also, I lied. There’s quite a few points I liked I put in here as well. Hope you don’t mind. ---
**Author:** ![Belthazor4011](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/belthazor4011/32/502922_2.png) [@Belthazor4011](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Belthazor4011)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2020, 3:15am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/211 "2020-06-30T03:15:05Z")
No idea why some people are writing books in this thread. Ayways keeping it short and simple. Bad idea for most of the reasons others have mentioned already. Little point in typing out the same thing(s) ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2020, 3:17am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/212 "2020-06-30T03:17:42Z")
> [@Belthazor4011](#): > > No idea why some people are writing books in this thread this tread made me tired ---
**Author:** ![PopeUrban](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/popeurban/32/214111_2.png) [@PopeUrban](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/PopeUrban)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2020, 3:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/213 "2020-06-30T03:25:24Z")
I reserve the right to invalidate the opinion of anybody quoting Tsun Tzu out of context because they think it makes them look smarter. Tsun Tzu said that in an entire chapter of the book about the importance of spies and scouts. If you can’t tell the difference between how intelligence is collected in reality and how that differs from intel collected passively and without risk because your enemies give it away for free I question your familiarity with an often quoted but seldom read book. If that data weren’t avaliable, we’d be putting actual scouts in actual ships with actual scanning gear and risk of death to get it. We’d be putting actual spies in actual corps and alliances to get it. The fact that it does exist takes sand out of the sandbox, because those roles are simply way less in demand. That’s way more sand out of the sandbox than a handful of people doing arena fights. That’s fine. I don’t give a ■■■■. I’m simply pointing out that the “muh sandbox” argument about a pvp instanced arena is stupid because its stupid in light of all the other even more anti-sandbox things we as EVE players use every single day that don’t exist in any other game. If you’re mad about arenas because “muh sandbox” but think killboards are fine you’re at best not thinking very hard and at worst a hypocrite. Killboards are fine. Arenas are fine. No they’re not going to kill the sandbox any more than local, zkill, and dotlan kill the sandbox. They won’t kill the economy because using them means ISK is blown up every time. They won’t kill roams because people don’t roam to find pvp, they roam to find ganks or respond to ganks on their friends and your gank targets aren’t flying ratting ships in the arena. You are overreacting to a feature that only the FW types are gonna use in the first place. Just chill and let people blow up their spaceships. ---
**Author:** ![Syn\_Shi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syn_shi/32/242535_2.png) [@Syn\_Shi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syn_Shi)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2020, 3:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/214 "2020-06-30T03:37:21Z")
So much salt already I may have hypertension. ---
**Author:** ![Aphrodite\_Sexy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aphrodite_sexy/32/420261_2.png) [@Aphrodite\_Sexy](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aphrodite_Sexy)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2020, 4:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/215 "2020-06-30T04:20:24Z")
1. **Your point centers on one argument, which is zkill = less sandbox. Explain.** 2. I see the difference, but it is not relevant. People can avoid their kill mails appearing on zkill. 3. Also, Tsun Tzu said stuff about spies and scouts, which exist in the EvE world. Zkill is another source of intel, comparative to newspapers. For example, if A-land attacks B-land, they would look at the B-land local newspaper: “Oh wow! They are deploying twenty thousand military personnel to somewhere over the rainbow!” It’s intel that is given away, but intel nevertheless. 4. Zkill intel is not collected passively. People have to look at it. Just like they have to look at any other intel source. Say radars for example. You can say that radars are a passive intel source. It is. Does that make real life plane fights less of a “sandbox?” no. > [@PopeUrban](#): > > The fact that it does exist takes sand out of the sandbox, because those roles are simply way less in demand. The role of attacking enemy supers solo with a battleship was never in demand. Does that take sand away from the sandbox? No. Because it’s a dumb thing to do. You’re focusing on the Sand part, but remember, there is a Box. The box of logic tells us to not do that. > [@PopeUrban](#): > > We’d be putting actual spies in actual corps and alliances to get it. We do that. > [@PopeUrban](#): > > If that data weren’t avaliable, we’d be putting actual scouts in actual ships with actual scanning gear and risk of death to get it. We also do that. > [@PopeUrban](#): > > No they’re not going to kill the sandbox any more than local, zkill, and dotlan kill the sandbox. Explain. > [@PopeUrban](#): > > They won’t kill the economy because using them means ISK is blown up every time. More isk is blown up because it’s easier to get a fight. But none of us are saying it will ruin the game’s economy. It just shows your lack of insight. > [@PopeUrban](#): > > They won’t kill roams because people don’t roam to find pvp They roam for PVP. Ask anyone. > [@PopeUrban](#): > > They won’t kill roams because people don’t roam to find pvp, they roam to find ganks or respond to ganks on their friends and your gank targets aren’t flying ratting ships in the arena. You’re thinking of a specific kind of roam. I’m just thinking about some peeps taking ships, going to nullsec, and killing everything they can kill. > [@PopeUrban](#): > > You are overreacting to a feature that only the FW types are gonna use in the first place. Yes exactly, so what will happen to FW? Or anybody who does PVP? They will go to these instances. All we will see in Plexes now are NPCs. What I mean by defeating the sandbox is that change no longer happens in fights. All fights are immediate 1 on 1 fights. There are no new ships who warp in and side with you or them, there is no www or bat phoning, there is no stake in solo fights because the isk stake is never there (10 mil ships) and the time stake is gone (immediate fights). ---
**Author:** ![Herzog\_Wolfhammer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/herzog_wolfhammer/32/452132_2.png) [@Herzog\_Wolfhammer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Herzog_Wolfhammer)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2020, 4:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/216 "2020-06-30T04:23:35Z")
> [@Aphrodite\_Sexy](#): > > I went to nullsec. So did many other people. We shot bait covetors and we died. We killed ratters and we died. We died happily feeling the content in our bones. Contrary to the angry players who would lose to a blingy ship in the abyssal proving grounds because they want “fairness” It’s not our fault if you got tired of getting killed. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2020, 5:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/217 "2020-06-30T05:09:21Z")
> [@Max\_Deveron](#): > > hmph, thats what Lucas Arts said about Star Wars Galaxy…wonder where that game went to? I’m pretty sure they didn’t say that. ---
**Author:** ![Black\_Pedro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/black_pedro/32/257285_2.png) [@Black\_Pedro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Black_Pedro)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2020, 6:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/218 "2020-06-30T06:01:34Z")
History is open to interpretation of what was the actual cause of SWG’s demise, but they did indeed, [say exactly that](https://games.slashdot.org/story/05/11/16/1633205/john-smedley-answers-your-questions): > **Why not fix the game? by Zonk** > _Overwhelmingly, the jist of many questions we recieved was “Why do this instead of fix bugs and expand existing content?” What led to the decision to make such a drastic change in the game’s playstyle, given that there was still a large population of players who were very happy playing Galaxies as it existed two weeks ago?_ > **John Smedley:** > We didn’t feel that we could “fix” the existing game without making these changes to the number of professions. Trying to add content and balance a game with 34 different professions was just proving too difficult. We would spend weeks working on content specifically for one or two professions, but that would come at the cost of neglecting the other 30+. I think when we made the game we went too far into the direction of a “sandbox” style of gameplay, when what we needed to do was balance that out with awesome Star Wars gameplay that gives the player the feeling of being heroic. > We also had the very basic business problem of needing to appeal to a wider audience of players in order to keep the game growing rather than seeing the audience dwindle down over time. At the end of the day, our decision came down to wanting to make Star Wars Galaxies the most incredible Star Wars experience ever. Even though we know these changes will be upsetting some of our players initially, we feel that once they see how awesome we can make the Galactic Civil War, and how cool the new Star Wars content is they’ll feel like we made the right decision at the end of the day. ---
**Author:** ![Gustav\_Mannfred](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gustav_mannfred/32/392828_2.png) [@Gustav\_Mannfred](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gustav_Mannfred)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2020, 6:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/219 "2020-06-30T06:31:59Z")
So I just came along this DEV Blog and the announcement after seeing it on Torvald Uruz stream. In General, I like the idea of making abyssal PVP available to more Players with less experience and skills. However, the part that shocked me when reading was that the current proving grounds go away. First I thought that I dont see right or that something is wrong in that blog, but then I began to realize what actually is going to happen. I really can’t believe that the classic Arenas in the last room of Tier 3 + sites go away. It was a big shock. It just came completely unexpected. I Always thought that it gets improved, but now CCP is literally “removing” classic Abyssal PVP. It was something I really enjoyed over the past 1 1/2 years. There was never a change that hurted me so hard like this one. For Hours I couldn’t believe what actually happens. But now I sadly know it. I am also feeling very sorry for TheCorrupted who spend a lot of time to build and maintain the current leaderboard of abyssal pvp: [https://abysra.com/](https://abysra.com/) he also updated the formula for the system to make it better for newer Players a few months ago. As you see on that site, I have had 411 kills and over 400b destroyed in the Arena since december 2018. It really made me cry that it is now going away. It really hurts that it all Comes completely unexpeted to an end. I really ask myself: Is it not possible to preserve the current Arena and just add the new filaments? Can’t they coexist? About the Arena itself, so that you hear exactly the point of view from someone who likes it: I know that the meta was stagnant, but that has to do more with the way ships are balanced. This made it interesting for Ikis, Cerbs and Curses, and with the surgical strike patch it also added the Deimos. But FW is not that much different, although here you have to look at the fit and not the ship itself. The Meta hasnt been “solved”. What was with my Talisman Stratios? or the Shield iki? Or the dual TD/Guidance distruptor Curse? or the triple Damp Orthrus? Or the Talisman iki? Or the Talisman Gila? Or the cheap 300m Deimos with 1500dps? Or the Sacrilege? Or the Polarized ham Orthrus? Or the dual Web Ham Cerb? Or the propless dualbattery Cerb? Or the propless ham Cerb? And many more…. There are quite a lot of options. And I am Aware that a lot of them are 5b+, but as said, the Deimos that Costs 300m was able to kill Ikitursas: [https://zkillboard.com/kill/84939994/](https://zkillboard.com/kill/84939994/) The PVE part before is bad for some Players, but not so for the balance of the Arena itself. It kept trollfits out. There are Players that love to just harrass others by bringing a full Damp Lachesis to just stalemate. I myself had early the idea of proving filaments, but with fit restrictions, so that a ship fitted with any other ewar than web, scram, neuts or target painter wont be able toactivate it and has to do a pve site first. Please, for the love of god, rethink what you are really doing here, just because the meta is expensive and stagnant, there are Players that are happy with it. Myself included. And I think you all dont know how it is that an activity you enjoyed for such a long time is going completely away without expecting it? I have to admit, there was never a change in the game in the past 11 years that hurt me so hard like this one: The removal of the current Abyssal PVP. And I think a lot of you guys will see me streaming on Twitch on a weekend, doing an Abyssal site in an Ikitursa, getting in the last room and realizing that there is no proving gate! It will take weeks, when not even months to get used to that it is gone. As said, I like the idea to give options for less experienced Players, but please, dont remove the proving grounds, Keep them!!! ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2020, 6:51am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/220 "2020-06-30T06:51:17Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > As long as it remains something that’s a complement to existing gameplay, it’s fine. It’s not complement, it can’t be by design. People in instanced content are not in the sandbox. The sandbox lives from the amount of people interested and interacting in its content. If you remove people regardless of how small the number may be the sandbox play is at a loss. This does not talk about the quality of players, like streamers, roaming gangs which could amplify this loss. Also the mindset of players liking to play arena games is different to those liking competitive and inherent unfair sandbox gameplay. Hence attracting new players with arenas is a poisoned gift for the core of EvE. ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2020, 7:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/221 "2020-06-30T07:03:53Z")
> [@Gustav\_Mannfred](#): > > And I am Aware that a lot of them are 5b+, but as said, the Deimos that Costs 300m was able to kill Ikitursas: [https://zkillboard.com/kill/84939994/](https://zkillboard.com/kill/84939994/) This Deimos probably cost multiple billion ISK, not the fake 300M shown on zkill ignoring the full red fit. Also you liked the content only because you solved it, and can brag about your kills. I understand that, I also had this moments in the past more than once. You will find a new niche hopefully (going alone against 2 …3 in the new mode?). Though CCP is cutting down solo content more than ever right now. ---
**Author:** ![Gustav\_Mannfred](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gustav_mannfred/32/392828_2.png) [@Gustav\_Mannfred](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gustav_Mannfred)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2020, 7:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/222 "2020-06-30T07:11:56Z")
These Abyssal modules were T2 + Decayed/Gravid, so it wasnt multiple billions, you could also check out Torvald uruz or fobos Achasses stream. They used the same Deimos fit too [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073.md?page=10) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073.md?page=12)