# Proving of Kybernauts for Glorification in the Flow Unfolds **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** feedback, official, devblog\ **Created:** [June 29, 2020, 1:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073 "2020-06-29T13:03:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2020, 2:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/243 "2020-06-30T14:32:06Z")
> [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > It’s not complement, it can’t be by design. People in instanced content are not in the sandbox. The sandbox lives from the amount of people interested and interacting in its content. If you remove people regardless of how small the number may be the sandbox play is at a loss. This does not talk about the quality of players, like streamers, roaming gangs which could amplify this loss. Of course it can be. It’s not replacing roaming, FW or other forms of existing PvP. It’s replacing an existing arena style PvP mechanic that wasn’t being fully utilized and grew stale. It’s in addition to, not instead of. They’re being removed from the sandbox for 15 minutes at a time. That’s actually less time than the existing mechanic, too. All of these arguments about changing EVE’s core and the like fail simply because the mechanics have already been in the game for a year and a half and it hasn’t killed off any other form of traditional PvE or PvP. It’s just something else for folks to do. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2020, 2:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/244 "2020-06-30T14:36:31Z")
Brisc, we don’t like the instanced mechanic that already exists in the game - we have been continuously complaining about it. Your argument that we cannot continue to complain because it is an existing mechanic is nonsensical. ---
**Author:** ![Kadesh\_Priestess](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kadesh_priestess/32/467993_2.png) [@Kadesh\_Priestess](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kadesh_Priestess)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2020, 2:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/245 "2020-06-30T14:37:45Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > All of these arguments about changing EVE’s core and the like fail simply because the mechanics have already been in the game for a year and a half and it hasn’t killed off any other form of traditional PvE or PvP. It’s just something else for folks to do. This is not true, at least partially. Making arena style pvp more interesting can pull some players back (mostly those who did AT and nothing else), yes. But it will also drain some people from other areas. Some people I know will be theorycrafting and playing in these weekend events instead of rolling holes and catching stuff (the most active hunters, actually), so there indeed will be negative impact on activity in space. The question is, will benefits outweigh flaws? And it is not us who can answer that. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2020, 2:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/246 "2020-06-30T14:37:55Z")
> [@Xeux](#): > > Brisc, we don’t like the instanced mechanic that already exists in the game - we have been continuously complaining about it. Your argument that we cannot continue to complain because it is an existing mechanic is nonsensical. You guys constantly complain about everything, so forgive me if I’ve stopped paying attention to most of it. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2020, 2:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/247 "2020-06-30T14:41:07Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > Of course it can be. It’s not replacing roaming, FW or other forms of existing PvP. Naïve. History has proven you wrong on numerous occasions. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2020, 2:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/248 "2020-06-30T14:41:49Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > You guys constantly complain about everything, so forgive me if I’ve stopped paying attention to most of it. Way to represent the customers. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2020, 2:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/249 "2020-06-30T14:46:23Z")
> [@Kadesh\_Priestess](#): > > This is not true or partially untrue. Making arena style pvp more interesting can pull some players back (mostly those who did AT and nothing else), yes. But it will also drain some people from other areas. Some people I know will be theorycrafting and playing in these weekend events instead of rolling holes and catching stuff (the most active hunters, actually), so there indeed will be negative impact on activity in space. You can say that about every live event - it’s going to make people do something different than what they’d already be doing. But my point remains - despite this new content, it didn’t cause a noticeable difference in existing mechanics. CCP making balance changes that people all wanted has had a bigger impact on people in space than any added content ever has. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2020, 2:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/250 "2020-06-30T14:47:16Z")
> [@Salt\_Foambreaker](#): > > Naïve. History has proven you wrong on numerous occasions. Nope. > [@Salt\_Foambreaker](#): > > Way to represent the customers. Don’t be so touchy. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2020, 2:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/251 "2020-06-30T14:48:11Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > > [@Salt\_Foambreaker](#): > > > > Way to represent the customers. > > Don’t be so touchy. Whats to be touchy, you claim to be a CSM and refuse to read customer posts, you painted the sign, not me. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2020, 2:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/252 "2020-06-30T14:48:56Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > > [@Salt\_Foambreaker](#): > > > > Naïve. History has proven you wrong on numerous occasions. > > Nope. UO, or are you too young to remember? Tarren Mills? Or are you too young to remember? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Ronuken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/steve_ronuken/32/373894_2.png) [@Steve\_Ronuken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Steve_Ronuken)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2020, 2:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/253 "2020-06-30T14:49:48Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > I know what killed it. I was there. That sounds like a confession to me 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Kadesh\_Priestess](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kadesh_priestess/32/467993_2.png) [@Kadesh\_Priestess](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kadesh_Priestess)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2020, 2:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/254 "2020-06-30T14:52:31Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > You can say that about every live event Yes you can, but majority of those events are conducted with focus on lowsec, null or w-space. Here, you preferably do it from hisec (since rebuilding is a must and Jita has to be close), and it takes you from the space for some time. Quite different consequences for the open world, so you cannot say that “every live event” and this one are equivalent. That said, I am still interested in having those arenas, I just see and admit their negative effect on the rest of the world. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2020, 2:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/255 "2020-06-30T14:54:06Z")
> [@Salt\_Foambreaker](#): > > Whats to be touchy, you claim to be a CSM and refuse to read customer posts, you painted the sign, not me. Stop sucking the fun out of everything. ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2020, 2:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/256 "2020-06-30T14:54:37Z")
Do you sometimes think one inch deep before you reply with another politician BS piece (you know the ones spinning the hand-picked facts in your favor)? Just wondering … It does of course not remove the mechanic, it’s replacing roaming, FW and existing PvP by _removing the people_ doing it right now from the game. Also you know people can chain run them, not only do 15min per day. There are people already who do nothing else than running Abyss all day. It’s of course replacing an existing mechanic which was exactly that bad as the new mechanic … only it hadn’t the bad impact to the game _because_ only few people used it. Making it more popular and accessible with this iteration is the problem, because it removes more people from the sandbox game and attract the wrong mindset. Also do you think CCP will stop here? ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2020, 2:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/257 "2020-06-30T14:55:44Z")
> [@Salt\_Foambreaker](#): > > UO, or are you too young to remember? > > Tarren Mills? Or are you too young to remember? Are you seriously going to try to compare WoW’s instanced PvP with a limited time 2 v 2 event? ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2020, 2:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/258 "2020-06-30T14:56:35Z")
> [@Steve\_Ronuken](#): > > That sounds like a confession to me They ignored me and the rest of their version of the CSM and killed their own game. It was like sitting back and watching a slow motion train wreck. ---
**Author:** ![Tiger\_space\_Thedark](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tiger_space_thedark/32/373728_2.png) [@Tiger\_space\_Thedark](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tiger_space_Thedark)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2020, 2:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/259 "2020-06-30T14:56:44Z")
bye waste of effort ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2020, 2:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/260 "2020-06-30T14:59:39Z")
> [@Kadesh\_Priestess](#): > > . Here, you preferably do it from hisec (since rebuilding is a must and Jita has to be close), They’re not in the game yet - we can’t start making proclamations about where folks are going to run them from until they start running them. > [@Kadesh\_Priestess](#): > > it takes you from the space for some time. At most, 15 minutes. > [@Kadesh\_Priestess](#): > > Quite different consequences for the open world, so you cannot say that “every live event” and this one are equivalent. Yes, the consequences from these filaments is far harsher than in the open world. You can’t run away here. If you don’t win, you lose your ship. There’s no hope for reinforcements. There’s no hope somebody else doesn’t come in third party. > [@Kadesh\_Priestess](#): > > I just see and admit their negative effect on the rest of the world. We can’t characterize the effect as negative at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Kadesh\_Priestess](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kadesh_priestess/32/467993_2.png) [@Kadesh\_Priestess](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kadesh_Priestess)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2020, 3:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/261 "2020-06-30T15:03:17Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > They’re not in the game yet - we can’t start making proclamations about where folks are going to run them from until they start running them. We can > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > Yes, the consequences from these filaments is far harsher than in the open world. You can’t run away here. If you don’t win, you lose your ship. There’s no hope for reinforcements. There’s no hope somebody else doesn’t come in third party. “For the open world”, not “than in the open world”. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > We can’t characterize the effect as negative at this point. We cannot characterize **net** effect, but we can gauge negative impact even now. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2020, 3:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/262 "2020-06-30T15:12:02Z")
> [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > Do you sometimes think one inch deep before you reply with another politician BS piece (you know the ones spinning the hand-picked facts in your favor)? Just wondering … Do you sometimes think one inch deep before you start complaining about literally everything that gets added to the game? Just wondering … > [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > It does of course not remove the mechanic, it’s replacing roaming, FW and existing PvP by _removing the people_ doing it right now from the game. Also you know people can chain run them, not only do 15min per day. There are people already who do nothing else than running Abyss all day. It’s not replacing those people at all. You’re assuming that the folks who want to go roam are going to be interested in a structured 2 v 2 PVP experience. I think that’s making a pretty big assumption. I don’t do FW and when I roam it’s in groups of 10 - 20, not 2, and I’m interested in these filaments. Folks who enjoy roaming are not going to suddenly stop doing that because these filaments exist for three days at a time. Maybe they try them, but every time there’s a live event, you don’t see every other thing that happens in EVE stop while people go rush off to do those events. Any more than you see everybody stop fighting each other to rush and go to Project Discovery when a new one comes out, or how everybody stopped fighting each other to rush out and do Abyssal PvE. There’s room in the game for new stuff and it’s not a zero sum, either. > [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > It’s of course replacing an existing mechanic which was exactly that bad as the new mechanic … only it hadn’t the bad impact to the game _because_ only few people used it. The reason why the existing mechanic was bad was laid out in the Dev Blog: 1) It was gated behind PvE; 2) Players figured it out and it was stale. I will throw in a 3 of my own: it required blingy, expensive ships that many players didn’t have access to. The result was that it was underused. > [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > Making it more popular and accessible with this iteration is the problem, because it removes more people from the sandbox game and attract the wrong mindset. Also do you think CCP will stop here? It’s not removing people from the sandbox for an appreciable amount of time. It’s 15 minutes at a go. If these are popular, I expect we’ll see more of it. There’s nothing wrong with that. Do you want people logging in to play the game or not? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073.md?page=12) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073.md?page=14)