# Proving of Kybernauts for Glorification in the Flow Unfolds **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** feedback, official, devblog\ **Created:** [June 29, 2020, 1:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073 "2020-06-29T13:03:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![Rick-Sanchez\_C-137](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rick-sanchez_c-137/32/243057_2.png) [@Rick-Sanchez\_C-137](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rick-Sanchez_C-137)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2020, 1:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/526 "2020-07-02T13:02:35Z")
I laughed at this exactly three times… ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2020, 3:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/527 "2020-07-02T15:03:47Z")
> [@Dantelion\_Shinoni](#): > > @Brisc_Rubal Have you guys raised that point with them? Yes, we did. ---
**Author:** ![Ocean\_Ormand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ocean_ormand/32/206896_2.png) [@Ocean\_Ormand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ocean_Ormand)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2020, 4:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/528 "2020-07-02T16:02:04Z")
Instance PVP by its very nature hurts open world pvp. If this update is successful, the “proving grounds” will pull people from the open world rendering them unavailable to pvp in the open world. The less people that are actually doing things in the open world the less viable the open world becomes. The less viable the open world is, the more people flee it to do other things. Instead of making things that draw people from the open world, CCP should be doing things to make the open world more engaging so that more people are active in it. This is not to say that a “dojo” could never be part of an open world system. Instead, the dojo should be made a part of the open world. For instance, it could be a physical localtion in lowsec that people had to travel to and from which would allow them to be part of the open world as they went to and from the dojo. Also if there was a market at the dojo - that would allow people to engage in game play associated with arming folk traveling to and from the dojo. But here we have not only instance pvp but instant travel to the battle grounds. The people engaging in this gameplay are completely and utterly removed from the rest of eve. Its as if the Dev’s went out and deliberately picked all of the features best designed to kill eve off for good and all. ---
**Author:** ![Archer\_en\_Tilavine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/archer_en_tilavine/32/461718_2.png) [@Archer\_en\_Tilavine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Archer_en_Tilavine)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2020, 4:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/529 "2020-07-02T16:02:19Z")
> [@Solstice\_Projekt](#): > > Look, I’m actually writing nice things! > Yeah, this is really, really nice compared to what I _should_ be writing. 🙂 You’ve gone soft… I expected teeth from you… and spine! 😉 Serious question though: if there was only one kind of arena (other than number of combatants), and this arena was a severely capped Alpha-esque experience in terms of the permitted hulls + module tiers + non-abyssal only modules + implant restrictions I’ve specified, don’t you think it would eventually get boring as to make some players antsy for higher end content if they REALLY wanted to go all out with higher end ships and higher grade fittings and implants (among other things)? Because that’s the primary objective of the restrictions (among other objectives). I’m asking you because you’re worth asking (don’t make me say that twice). Mike sees where I’m coming from and I hope as CSM he can use my perspective in framing decisions from high above: > [@Mike\_Azariah](#): > > > [@Archer\_en\_Tilavine](#): > > > > you can only get so much out of missions before moving on to other PVE content, or out of Alpha before you outgrow it and need to move on to Omega for the full experience. With appropriate restrictions on PVP Arena, at some point players wanting a greater experience will need to venture into LS/NS/ _ **engage** _ in wardecs/etc to get it. > > this is a very good point. Some see the proving grounds as an end point, AeT sees it as a possible stepping stone to other parts of the game. > > m ---
**Author:** ![Shin\_Dahn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shin_dahn/32/293449_2.png) [@Shin\_Dahn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shin_Dahn)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2020, 4:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/530 "2020-07-02T16:30:49Z")
Instanced pvp is a bad idea. Vote no! ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Azariah](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_azariah/32/512626_2.png) [@Mike\_Azariah](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Azariah)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2020, 4:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/534 "2020-07-02T16:56:39Z")
> [@Shin\_Dahn](#): > > Instanced pvp is a bad idea. Vote no! not a vote, here. it is a thing that IS coming. the only way you can truly vote, at this point, it with your wallet and your feet. The question is not if but for how long and in what form. m ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2020, 5:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/535 "2020-07-02T17:00:02Z")
> [@Mike\_Azariah](#): > > and your feet I wish to believe Mike’s talking about “stomping the ground until the earth shakes” … … and not “walking away, dragging your spine with you”. : - ) ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Azariah](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_azariah/32/512626_2.png) [@Mike\_Azariah](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Azariah)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2020, 5:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/536 "2020-07-02T17:01:42Z")
Just as long as it is not ‘curbstomping’ Mike behind Harpa at the next fanfest. m ---
**Author:** ![bluelysian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bluelysian/32/423769_2.png) [@bluelysian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/bluelysian)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2020, 5:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/537 "2020-07-02T17:01:47Z")
> [@Mike\_Azariah](#): > > not a vote, here. it is a thing that IS coming. > > the only way you can truly vote, at this point, it with your wallet and your feet. The question is not if but for how long and in what form. we have to take thin into our world and suck ! we have no voice at decision and no choice at this moment .. ! Most people say NO! here … but even all of say NO… this thing is coming.. ---
**Author:** ![Ahari\_Chent-Shi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ahari_chent-shi/32/249476_2.png) [@Ahari\_Chent-Shi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ahari_Chent-Shi)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2020, 5:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/538 "2020-07-02T17:06:26Z")
You all secretly want this to happen so you have another “back in my day…” rant to post. ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2020, 5:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/539 "2020-07-02T17:07:16Z")
> [@Mike\_Azariah](#): > > Just as long as it is not ‘curbstomping’ Mike behind Harpa at the next fanfest. I don’t even know why you’d be writing that. Not only would no one ever touch you, no one would ever _dare_ touching you, because half the game’s population would be literally jumping on him for that. That’s how _big_ you are, Mike. People always seem to be forgetting that, while the CSM members have no power over CCP, the CSM members have the ability to influence those who voted for them. > [@Ahari\_Chent-Shi](#): > > You all secretly want this to happen so you have another “back in my day…” rant to post. It’s not a fault longing for the days when people didn’t take ■■■■■■■■ from those who govern them. : - ) ---
**Author:** ![bluelysian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bluelysian/32/423769_2.png) [@bluelysian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/bluelysian)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2020, 5:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/540 "2020-07-02T17:12:50Z")
> [@Mike\_Azariah](#): > > > [@Archer\_en\_Tilavine](#): > > > > you can only get so much out of missions before moving on to other PVE content, or out of Alpha before you outgrow it and need to move on to Omega for the full experience. With appropriate restrictions on PVP Arena, at some point players wanting a greater experience will need to venture into LS/NS/ _ **engage** _ in wardecs/etc to get it. > > this is a very good point. Some see the proving grounds as an end point, AeT sees it as a possible stepping stone to other parts of the game. > > m Can SOMEONE here goundly who is defending … explain and challenge these ideas ! .. like 2 days .. none of these very a few defenders came with proper explanation: i do challenge and i would like to hear how you guys defending this : > [@bluelysian](#): > > > [@MB\_ThePhotographer](#): > > > > Should read “wanting to gain greater experience” just because you cant learn everything in an arena. Just saying… > > Legid statement … > > Up to now what i see … in this instanced arena you have to go for Micro Warpdrives ! No AB no go… also you dont have so much chance with armor tank against active but more passiv shield tank … up to now one of best sugestion is Caracals … You will hear those incoming days more and more… > > Now this meta familiar very familiar . one spesific security area use these alot in EVE… himm lets elaborate… > > you instancing players into PVP but… since in arena noone can warp away … Points are Pointless right … > so after AB we can also take the point ( warp disrupter ) out of table tooo… > Scram still can be valuable but … context… ECM will be shining start… which already refused by many old good solo /small gang PVPers in the game but hailed in null sec > > When you look at low sec you can see large variations of fits . PVP learning without using PVP s back bone modules TACKLE MODULES ??? > > so they use kite himm… so kite but without loosing your Point … ?? huh … how they will practice that possibly there?? meanwhile they trade that slot for extra shield??? > > IS there any win chance in that arena for the pilots use HOLY TRINITY ??? ( ab web scram ) when they respawned in the arena 65 km away from their opponents??? > > FACT : so whoever here mentioned that these arenas are good oportunity to learn PVP for new players… > Know nothing about training new players in to PVP and how to progress their knowledge understanding tactical and piloting skills … > > it has only value for people shoot at each other … whoever has higher skills 5b pods and 2bil fitted t2 cruisers… wins … > > And current set up this ARENA supports one META… which is veeery popular in one spesific secuurity area in eve NUL SEC! > > large fleets, t2 dedicated tackles and damage focused logi supported passive shileld Pointless and scramless dps sheeps > > Now this arena is perfect passage point for null sec meta pvp… > > this arena is not open for so many different creative ways to engage pvp … > > and this arena has absolutely zero value for teaching people without carrying tackle modules … > > Can someone explain me … > everybody talks about kiting ?? man kiting is not standing 50 km and keep shooting … > > kiting is holding the opponent at the edge of your point range and dont miss it … and it requires great amount of manuel piloting skills to execute it succesfully… because there no way AI orbit can prevent any experienced slingshotter to catch the target … > > by the way… how or why they need to slingshot there even ??? > > Seriously … the pilots in At and Open those pilots those people are already know the meta.. They are top of the cream ! these arenas are controlled… none of them forced to warp to opponent 65 km ! Competetive gameplay is kind of ensgame content .. those people master it ..! WhaT kind of mindset imply us and try to sell NUL Meta play style to us as competetive game play ??? only people who say ahh its awsome… i havent heard ANY of them has any idea about competetive game play and its specialities… therefor people who is clapping this idea also couldnt defend their ideas solid and be able to rationalise it up to now .. All they do is keep repeating memorised sentences and when you squeeze and mentally challenge it… all they can say. : You are so that . you are so This and go ad hominem instead of stay on the subject … Max i heard is .. : "it doesnt need to be explained " just lol im speechless By putting rewards and to winners and list them in order to success DOESNT ENOUGH to make this theatre real challenge and proove ground And absoultely this is not a good way for new players to enter arena and meet with PVP that way and CALL this PVP… no DISRUPTOR … lol… no AB lol… shoot From 50 km and call this kiting … LOL is that only me seing this ■■■■■■■ broken or what !! someone WAKE ME UP! ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2020, 5:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/541 "2020-07-02T17:37:05Z")
Stop wasting your energy. You’ll just burn out. Then you won’t have enough left to start hunting … … shooting down … … and humiliating those who participate in this. ---
**Author:** ![Dravick\_Afterthought](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dravick_afterthought/32/282017_2.png) [@Dravick\_Afterthought](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dravick_Afterthought)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2020, 5:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/542 "2020-07-02T17:37:18Z")
“Never, in the field of human endeavour, have so many people written so much utter bollocks about a minor change to a niche game”. ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2020, 5:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/543 "2020-07-02T17:37:54Z")
It’s not simple. _You_ are too simple to understand the implications. ---
**Author:** ![Dravick\_Afterthought](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dravick_afterthought/32/282017_2.png) [@Dravick\_Afterthought](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dravick_Afterthought)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2020, 5:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/544 "2020-07-02T17:39:32Z")
The fact you replied within the same minute that I posted shows how unhealthy this obsession has become - take a break for F\*\*\*'s sake ! ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2020, 5:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/545 "2020-07-02T17:41:19Z")
> [@Mike\_Azariah](#): > > it is a thing that IS coming. Also because you and other CSM are actively promoting it instead of fighting against. Don’t underestimate your role here. ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2020, 5:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/546 "2020-07-02T17:43:07Z")
Yes, because me sitting here in front of my browser … … dedicating some time to it … … clearly is a sign that I have a problem. It’s totally not the simpleton who has a problem, when he says that things which are obviously complex, are rather simple. I rarely post anymore. Now I dedicate some time to it … … and of course some cognitively challenged moron declares I spend too much time on the forums. You simpleton. ---
**Author:** ![Shin\_Dahn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shin_dahn/32/293449_2.png) [@Shin\_Dahn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shin_Dahn)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2020, 5:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/547 "2020-07-02T17:51:39Z")
I don’t plan on leaving. Adapt or leave really. But instances for pvp break the spirit of the game. I agree though that it might have been inevitable that this happens. ---
**Author:** ![bluelysian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bluelysian/32/423769_2.png) [@bluelysian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/bluelysian)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2020, 5:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/548 "2020-07-02T17:53:59Z")
As a pilot who is stand up here and embracing the Sand box pvp … i would like to share a good example of how a player driven sandbox PVP can be facilitate … and i would like to give an example for that Some time ago… a player launched an event in AMARR for 20 days … Everyday … she had undocked 2 bowheads … full of fitted ships each one from 4 different race and stands up for 3 main flying strategy … fits made by one of the best theory crafters in this game …kite brawl and scram kite …Even day old rookie pilot can operate them … She did it because she had been one of those pilots who stay in that rookie channel ans answering endless questions of Rookies… And tired of in Rookie channel PvP introduced to new players like baad paad thing and us PvPeers bad bad people… CCP aware about this issue … and she would like to give them oportunitiy to experience it … with no catch… no gain and no return… Everyday … rookies younger than 30 days old… came to Amarr 1,0 they have reshipped from bowheads unlimited… she had kept 2 veterans in fleet so they answer questions and guided them constantly … Rookies she could reach came everyday… They got their first solo fights . Their first solo kills even in first day … they are thrilled… most important they experienced before they brainwashed !.. they had at least %50 , %60 percent green zkillboards and tons of solo killmails… soo proud … 20 Days … this pilot tried and tried to reach rookies ! Tried to announce it in rookie channel… but Warned by ISD … After that people think that pilot is a bad person and a scammer since warned … since they dont know the game yet … one of them even told that she is calling them to Amarr 1,0 to drop capital ship on of them ! 20 days… authorities doesnt let her reach out mass rookies …ticketed … GMs ,all dialogues . she got warned by constantly… they put her under incredible stress… lots of rookies sent her hate mails… called her scammer , liar and many other diguisting names … That was Real PVP incl Training in Open Sandbox Game and player driven… she had talked to over 500 rookies one to one explain them how to … could only convince 50 of them that im not scammer … That was totally community on focuse charity Event … CCP see any empowerment or allowment of this events announcements in rookie channel as favoritism … instead of 500 pilot just 50 of them benfit… ANOTHER GOOD EXAMPLE this is another hillarious example for facilitating Sandbox PVP… and if youread carefull … you will see how much priceless opportunity for creative PVP where skills knowledge and understanding challenged ! [https://www.eternalwar.org/items-8/Mutual-War-Concept](https://www.eternalwar.org/items-8/Mutual-War-Concept) bring this… and how many of those clappers can claim that … this theatre better than this beautifull old tradition [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073.md?page=25) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073.md?page=27)