# Proving of Kybernauts for Glorification in the Flow Unfolds **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** feedback, official, devblog\ **Created:** [June 29, 2020, 1:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073 "2020-06-29T13:03:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 34
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 3:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/702 "2020-07-07T03:16:50Z")
> [@Alterus](#): > > Two points here. First, Burger and Goodfella primarily credit the rise in retention to improvements to the launcher and character creation systems, and the focus on improving players’ experience “in the first five minutes”. How, then, can you claim that the wardec changes are primarily responsible? Second, if the improvement in retention were both significant and attributable to the wardec nerf, that would logically be reflected in the PCU numbers a year and a half after release. It isn’t. The evidence you cite has nothing to do with the argument you are making. First you lecture me on reading closely, and then you accuse me of claiming that I said the war dec changes were primarily responsible for the rise in retention. I didn’t say they were. I said they were part of the mass of changes made to impact retention. And they were. The numbers we were shown, as was noted in the minutes, demonstrated that when you create a system where the best way to counter it is to log out and not play, people will do that and then they don’t come back. So they fixed that. And as for the claim that better retention will show up in the PCU, not necessarily. There are people coming and going from the game all over the place. There’s zero way to filter out every other variable to say that this one thing resulted in X. It’s all part of their on-going efforts to increase retention rates, which have been working. Regardless, there’s just no real way to justify the claim that nerfs to high sec PvP resulted in tens of thousands of players quitting the game - that many people were never involved in high sec PvP (here’s where bluelysian screams aloud and links RvB for the 90th time). There’s a far more obvious reason why those numbers went down and you already said what it was. ---
**Author:** ![Alterus](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alterus/32/213825_2.png) [@Alterus](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alterus)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 4:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/704 "2020-07-07T04:14:23Z")
> [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > First you lecture me on reading closely You didn’t, which led to your mischaracterizing what I wrote so I pointed it out. Not a lecture. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > The numbers we were shown, as was noted in the minutes, demonstrated that when you create a system where the best way to counter it is to log out and not play, people will do that and then they don’t come back. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > they were part of the mass of changes made to impact retention. Either wardecs and their nerfs had a significant effect on retention or they didn’t. You can’t have it both ways. > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > And as for the claim that better retention will show up in the PCU, not necessarily. There are people coming and going from the game all over the place. Assuming a stable or increasing rate of new players joining the game, and an increasing rate of retention, the average PCU _must_ increase eventually. We can see this happen in the PCU data for the early years of the game. If it doesn’t, then either there is some confounding variable (like more players quitting, alt accounts unsubbing) affecting the PCU average, or the hypothesis that the changes are dramatically improving retention is false. This is really basic stuff… > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > Regardless, there’s just no real way to justify the claim that nerfs to high sec PvP resulted in tens of thousands of players quitting the game The correlation still runs in favor of my argument: a safer highsec is associated with lower player counts. Does that mean there is a causative relationship? Not necessarily. Something else may have caused the decline. However, the opposite claim, that nerfs to highsec PVP have improved player counts, does not even have a correlative relationship to back it up. ---
**Author:** ![Gustav\_Mannfred](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gustav_mannfred/32/392828_2.png) [@Gustav\_Mannfred](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gustav_Mannfred)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 6:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/705 "2020-07-07T06:05:13Z")
great you liked it 🙂 Will probably do some more Testing on the weekend, mainly trying some gay combinations out. Would actually also be cool if CCP opens up the destroyer 5 ffa and Slicer 3v3 for testing. What I really want (or hope) is that CCP keeps the current 1v1 Arenas in game and improves them, rather than removing them. The new filaments arent a substitution to the current Arenas(Even though I like that idea very much). ---
**Author:** ![Dravick\_Afterthought](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dravick_afterthought/32/282017_2.png) [@Dravick\_Afterthought](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dravick_Afterthought)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 7:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/706 "2020-07-07T07:14:28Z")
> [@Alterus](#): > > > [@Dravick\_Afterthought](#): > > > > Are you really suggesting that any change to Eve should only take place if CCP asks every single player to vote on it, and abides by the result of that vote ? That’s the logical conclusion of your statement above. > > That isn’t the logical conclusion at all. I disagree - how can a decision about “_I certainly didn’t ask for my preferred gameplay to be removed ten years ago, and neither did any other can flipper._” be satisfied, in your terms, without a vote of all the players ? > [@](#): > > I’m pointing out that Brisc\_Rubal is making unfounded assertions about what highsec players wanted. Just saying “Players wanted x and so CCP changed y” doesn’t make it true. Exactly as you are making unfounded assertions about _what highsec players wanted_ - with your implication that ‘can-flipping’ should have be retained because it’s what you and a few like-minded players wanted. ---
**Author:** ![Dravick\_Afterthought](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dravick_afterthought/32/282017_2.png) [@Dravick\_Afterthought](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dravick_Afterthought)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 7:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/707 "2020-07-07T07:19:41Z")
> [@Shushero](#): > > For one, RvB havent existed for years now. Given that I _(or rather my PvP alt)_ flies with them most days this comes as somewhat of a surprise… ---
**Author:** ![Dantelion\_Shinoni](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dantelion_shinoni/32/383315_2.png) [@Dantelion\_Shinoni](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dantelion_Shinoni)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 7:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/708 "2020-07-07T07:55:31Z")
You’d have to be _severely_ delusional to think that Wardecs, and High-Sec PvP in general, was not driving players away. Throughout the years one of the annecdoctes about the game you could find on any gaming forums or even here was that “EVE? Yeah, I played that and then I got griefed/ganked and quit”. If you think a bunch of high skill-level, bling-fitted, _and risk-averse_ players did not participate in that, you are in a bubble and you better start burning! Agression is a core of EVE, being exploded _for the first time_ helps, but if the decades of low retention participate in showing anything, it’s that _prolonged and meaningless_ agression leads to players quitting. ---
**Author:** ![bluelysian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bluelysian/32/423769_2.png) [@bluelysian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/bluelysian)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 9:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/709 "2020-07-07T09:28:09Z")
@Dravick_Afterthought You had been informed about this 3 days ago what is your intention to bring this up again and FLOOD the channel for answered with explanations?? TODAY > [@Dravick\_Afterthought](#): > > > [@Shushero](#): > > > > For one, RvB havent existed for years now. > > Given that I _(or rather my PvP alt)_ flies with them most days this comes as somewhat of a surprise… 3DAYS AGO > [@Dravick\_Afterthought](#): > > Is there more than one Red Fed and Blue Rep ? The Red Fed my alt is in doesn’t in any way resemble what you’re describing - we (Red & Blue) live in 2 different structures in 1 hi-sec system, and fight more together in joint fleets (roaming low-sec, null-sec and the odd wormhole) than against each - and we may have arranged fights against other alliances, but not against each other. And the explanation you got : > [@bluelysian](#): > > Thanks for contribution … im appreciated. > Because the RvB i have introduced lived nearly decade as i also mentioned prior posts of mine > [@bluelysian](#): > > this was what RvB about [https://www.eternalwar.org/items-8/Mutual-War-Concept](https://www.eternalwar.org/items-8/Mutual-War-Concept) > today what you are experiencing is nothing more than any other Pirate PVP corp and actually they had been in FW recent months they left … RvB name used for a mutual war concept nearly a decade … SO That RvB is dead… what you live now is just another low sec piracy corp… Considering the way he is talking … i would say he is old veteran… All old vets call RvB for aka mutual war… AND Mutual war currently Project of one spesific corporation in New Eden: _ **The Persuaders** _. This group dedicated to bring this beautifull old tradition back … I can see you are suffering to remember im glad to help you and inform you my friend ---
**Author:** ![bluelysian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bluelysian/32/423769_2.png) [@bluelysian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/bluelysian)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 10:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/710 "2020-07-07T10:09:31Z")
> [@bluelysian](#): > > > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > > > The data about ship losses you’re remembering from EVE Vegas in 2015 was true. However, when they looked at the impact that war decks were having in 2018, it became clear that the mechanic was broken and it was driving people out of the game. That’s why they fixed it. Sure, you didn’t ask for that. But it was necessary. It was fixed, and that fix - along with other NPE changes - helped to turn around all of CCPs player retention numbers, which are better now than they’ve ever been. > > [EVE-Offline :: EVE-Online Status monitor](https://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility) > > ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/0/1/01fc5ef48e9e2f205d5c1c72ebb7a85978a1f9fc.png) > > here is list of Eve Online expansions : > > [en.wikipedia.org](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expansions_of_Eve_Online) > > ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/1/0/10a2ab065576432f18ef365d9f9d57de3958459b.png) > > ### [Expansions of Eve Online](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expansions_of_Eve_Online) > > Eve Online is a player-driven persistent-world massively multiplayer online role-playing game set in a science fiction space setting. Since its release on May 6, 2003 the developer CCP Games has added a total of twenty-one expansions to the game. CCP provides expansions free of charge to its subscribers. This article highlights the expansions and changes introduced to the game. Release date: December 18, 2003 Castor was the first named content release, with one of the key features being the addi… > > Here i provide 2 data set people can match on top of the Player numbers and expansion dates … > for the peopl who is interested in graphic please use web version and hover your mouse over the years … you may see some veery visible peaks like 2016 Ascension …and some familiar other patterns > > > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > > > This isn’t arrogance or an appeal to authority. > > …Numbers tells that this is arrogance and appeal to authority … > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > You can watch this episode of [the Meta Show](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hK5t-WJgg2k&list=PLrk-tHMgg_i9DsbOySHawlvHBau2rxSXP&index=14&t=0s), where we had CCP Burger and CCP Goodfella on, and he talked about the rentention rate turning around. The retention rate is not the DAU or the MAU, and it’s not going to be reflected by anything that you can look at - it’s an internal CCP number. > > If them flat out saying so isn’t good enough for you, I don’t really know what else to tell you. In that video they are talking about results of New player Experience program … Nothing to do with wd mechanics … there is nothing to support what you are saying > [@Dantelion\_Shinoni](#): > > If you think a bunch of high skill-level, bling-fitted, _and risk-averse_ players did not participate in that, you are in a bubble and you better start burning! > > Agression is a core of EVE, being exploded _for the first time_ helps, but if the decades of low retention participate in showing anything, it’s that _prolonged and meaningless_ agression leads to players quitting. It is PVP game and you are calling 17 years of thriving as > [@Dantelion\_Shinoni](#): > > t’s that _prolonged and meaningless_ agression leads to players quitting. Yes yes… Risk aversity works both ways … Very high risk averse players have higher chance "might ( possibility ) to leave the game early stages with same reasons … Its kind of self cleaning /balancing system of course not perfect but working … and its result of natural sandbox ecosystem … some risk averse players survives from these first days experiences … and they evolve over years into players who does this to new players…If you put stick into this ecosystem and make more risk averse players stay in game … you pay this more heavy in the future Lets accept EvE is kinda game not EVERY soul and mind can handle . And we see the examples of it in Rookie channel everyday. And if you check the numbers that gives you the final numbers … Who stay and play … Who left… And todays numbers are lower than the numbers decade ago… even though Eve is far more harsh for them in old days more players had been staying so numbers were higher… I did made both posts to just answer ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Fawn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/little_fawn/32/323065_2.png) [@Little\_Fawn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Little_Fawn)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 12:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/711 "2020-07-07T12:18:06Z")
> [@Dantelion\_Shinoni](#): > > Throughout the years one of the annecdoctes about the game you could find on any gaming forums or even here was that “EVE? Yeah, I played that and then I got griefed/ganked and quit”. Anecdata is not data. How were you hearing these stories? Did you count the number of times you heard other stories like “Eve is boring. I mined rocks for a while then quit.” I hope that CCP has studied the activity of the players it is trying to retain and using actual data and survey information, and not anecdotes. My personal feeling is that I have quit (but come back) because Eve was boring, and the promised conflict never materialised. I wandered around highsec shooting rocks, farming LP, and shooting brainless NPCs for a while, then went away. Where was all the fun, the conflict, the risk? It took me a couple of quits and returns to find it. So for players like me the current\* NPE is terrible. The confusion was fun. But after the career agents you’re dropped into high security farming experience where you are bombarded with recruitment spam from people who want you to farm more on their behalf. Once again I _hope_ that CCP can track this kind of thing. How many people quit Eve because it does _not_ become the grand turbulent exciting experience they’re looking for? Edit: \* I might not be talking about the current one. I’ll have to replay it in the next few days! ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 12:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/712 "2020-07-07T12:23:21Z")
> [@Alterus](#): > > If it doesn’t, then either there is some confounding variable (like more players quitting, alt accounts unsubbing) affecting the PCU average, or the hypothesis that the changes are dramatically improving retention is false. This is really basic stuff… What could have possibly happened at the same time as these changes were made that helped impact PCU? Could it possibly have been all of the changes to mining and ratting that reduced the numbers of people with multiple accounts on at the same time mining and ratting? And all of the players with multiple rorq and super accounts that were no longer profitable so they stopped being subbed and logged in? You are not looking at the whole game while you’re trying to make your argument. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Ronuken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/steve_ronuken/32/373894_2.png) [@Steve\_Ronuken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Steve_Ronuken)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 12:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/713 "2020-07-07T12:50:00Z")
Player retention is up. (at least as per the last graph I saw on the CSM) Young players are sticking around for longer in Eve. Eve’s _always_ had a problem with retaining newbies. They’re chipping away at that problem, and it’s visible in the numbers which we’ve been shown. It was very visible. I can’t show you those numbers. They were disclosed in an NDA’d meeting. (they’ve talked about the numbers in general, so I’m not breaching the NDA to mention the trend) All I can do is tell you the trend was very positive. Bear in mind that retention doesn’t _directly_ affect PCU. Because _all_ PCU measures is how many players are connected at a specific point in time. If you have 24 new players who all play for 1 hour a day, and there’s no overlap, that’s a PCU rise of 1. If they overlap a little, that could be 2. Or it could be 24. You see how it’s not a direct effect? as for PCU: ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/3/3/33c6d2d4fb300f66c519b67a7cf8fb47321488b9.png) Looks to be significantly up from a year ago, no? ---
**Author:** ![bluelysian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bluelysian/32/423769_2.png) [@bluelysian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/bluelysian)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 1:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/714 "2020-07-07T13:19:46Z")
> [@Steve\_Ronuken](#): > > I can’t show you those numbers. _**They were disclosed in an NDA’d meeting. (they’ve talked about the numbers in general, so I’m not breaching the NDA to mention the trend) All I can do is tell you the trend was very positive.**_ Well… i really dont know why did you shared this… this way i learn that you are old CSM thanks. And i dont know how can i impress this better… I am impressed your attitude by not sticking this into our nose like other … Even though we are not agree on many different subjects… considering the argument style you hold and now this … you have my respect. Again still didnt understand why did you shared this here because As i had mentioned before … Also CCP Burger and CCP Godfella in the video Brisc Rubal sent … they had been talking about these numbers , and its their official declaration … And the main reason i Call This Out was my reaction to Brisc Rubal who is use and sent this video which nothing about wardeck related fixations but relsult of what they introduced in Amsterdam \* > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > CCPs player retention numbers, which are better now than they’ve ever been. … was not accurate statement . i had just underlined that Just there we can see is better ongoing situation since they introduced that NPE and it was really good . It was also help us … the pilots who is helping new players in Rookie channel and this release make our work easier .Give us a tool … And im really greatfull for that ❤ + It was me who is ALREADY announced this in this channel and Call this fact out …And tie the real reason of this retention into New player experience . Just for behalf of stay on the central facts. Nobody confronted this reality here … ---
**Author:** ![Lothar\_Mandrake](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lothar_mandrake/32/414266_2.png) [@Lothar\_Mandrake](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lothar_Mandrake)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 2:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/718 "2020-07-07T14:12:57Z")
Will there be a way to watch the fights? That would be a great motivator to encourage more of this content. ---
**Author:** ![Brisc\_Rubal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/brisc_rubal/32/374307_2.png) [@Brisc\_Rubal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Brisc_Rubal)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 2:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/719 "2020-07-07T14:17:37Z")
I expect these will be very popular with streamers. ---
**Author:** ![Lothar\_Mandrake](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lothar_mandrake/32/414266_2.png) [@Lothar\_Mandrake](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lothar_Mandrake)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 2:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/720 "2020-07-07T14:27:13Z")
I was kind of hoping for a neutral way to observe. (Ref: A/T style) - This feels like an A/T alternative option, minus the prizes of course. The alliance tournament was my hook in EVE. I started in May years ago and wasn’t invested in the game until a couple months later when I saw my first A/T. Then I became obsessed. ~ Darn you CCP\_Antiquarian - LOL! ---
**Author:** ![bluelysian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bluelysian/32/423769_2.png) [@bluelysian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/bluelysian)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 2:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/721 "2020-07-07T14:37:25Z")
actually I had been thinking another idea … Instead of introducing this arenas like dungeon finder style … CCP may give this as a tool to a corporations Im not a developer so i dont know the limitations… but as idea … We do solo and team based matches and this is how our arena looks like [https://www.eternalwar.org/tournaments](https://www.eternalwar.org/tournaments) now as you can see there there is dedicated bookmarks for spectators and who is Commenting and introducing… Now we have many challenges here… Arena size differers and /must differ depends on size of the fleet /fight ship types… Our other challenge is checking pods and mods… has to be done vie pod check or get printscreen ect… We have different rules sets and different size arenas for each condition to maximise to give pilots largest oportunity to come with creative fits and still give enough space so they can show their real piloting skills and strategic capabilities… this is challenge we had been talking about it for long time… and focuse is … increasing quality both fights and challenge pilots capabilities the idea is … I had been thinking… these Arenas may be can be kind of like citadels… we can buy and anchor them in high sec with different classifications … AT class arena buildings … with all At rule sets and limitations comes on board… Or 1v1 frigate … 2 v2 cruiser… different variations … Actually that can even open up for different design possibilities … nice thing with this set ups… This system still instanced yes. but at least its player driven and supports social texture … ![2020.07.02.10.41.34](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/0/e/0e25f7f3365100f130441af8fcaff9911ab817ff.png) and think like that when you activate… instead of those… you see sections in menu … spectators… commentators competetive pilots… ect ect So every player picks own position and gets best out of it now im sory… i had just wrote this in bit rush conditions… but this ones detailed version is in my presentation… which i will nicely pack it with better english and present CCPs regards before i leave this forum thread ---
**Author:** ![Lothar\_Mandrake](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lothar_mandrake/32/414266_2.png) [@Lothar\_Mandrake](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lothar_Mandrake)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 2:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/722 "2020-07-07T14:47:45Z")
@bluelysian - first step, sell it to the current CSM or run for office yourself. You put consider thought into this and you might need to present it to CCP in person (post pandemic pending). ---
**Author:** ![bluelysian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bluelysian/32/423769_2.png) [@bluelysian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/bluelysian)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 2:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/723 "2020-07-07T14:51:48Z")
current CSM busy here to insult me… up to now i had invalidate their many statements with solid proofs… solid reasoning. I used the language of mind knowledge and understanding … End up with one of them begin to come with personal attacks… just look up thread… all CSM here …here to selling idea to us… there is NO … CSM up to now stand up fro the pilots thinks like me in this thread… i do solo small gang PVP and so far my playstyle they call here Canninbalism. @Lothar_Mandrake ---
**Author:** ![Lothar\_Mandrake](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lothar_mandrake/32/414266_2.png) [@Lothar\_Mandrake](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lothar_Mandrake)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 2:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/724 "2020-07-07T14:55:06Z")
Sorry, when the arguments started flying I scrolled past it. It disrupts my EVE experience if I don’t have a reason to be involved in it. It felt like the topic was going off course. ---
**Author:** ![bluelysian](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bluelysian/32/423769_2.png) [@bluelysian](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/bluelysian)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2020, 2:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/725 "2020-07-07T14:58:27Z")
I am truly sory you experienced this mess and saw the thread like that… i just defend myself and avoided further . Please stay and share your ideas… some peoole already chased many like minded pilots away by constant harassments which deleted by isd Therefor i dont use forum platforms so much also too… this is my first forum thread … except the only one post i sent for new player experience feedback … there is better control here and ISD doing good work and its clean thread i do still waiting answer from ISD . [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073.md?page=33) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073.md?page=35)