# Proving of Kybernauts for Glorification in the Flow Unfolds **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** feedback, official, devblog\ **Created:** [June 29, 2020, 1:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073 "2020-06-29T13:03:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Mike\_Azariah](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_azariah/32/512626_2.png) [@Mike\_Azariah](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Azariah)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2020, 7:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/122 "2020-06-29T19:54:55Z")
My worries, and feel free to add to them other concerns that you have queue length, I do play other games and have waited for my turn in a queue until I get up to get a drink and find that I did not hit accept and am back at the bottom of the queue, again bling vs new player Yes a T1 cruiser but what is it fit with? what I am not worried about ‘this will take from other pvp’ no it adds to it. ‘they should have been fixing x instead’ yes they should be but they have multiple teams and they are not all working on proving grounds ‘but someone will just grind the top 100 chart’ yup, and? I am listening and within the rules defined by the NDA I will try to respond and the major concerns will be brought to the team (if we have not said them already) So, please, keep the conversation alive **both _positive and negative_** before and more importantly after it goes live. m btw can an alpha with 5 mill sp make a cruiser specialist who could be fairly set? a frigate? T1? hmmmm ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2020, 7:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/123 "2020-06-29T19:58:43Z")
So this is what the Edencom ships were for? An arena where the enemy fleet is guaranteed to be 5 ships that cannot easily spread out? ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2020, 7:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/124 "2020-06-29T19:58:47Z")
> [@Dravick\_Afterthought](#): > > > [@Salt\_Foambreaker](#): > > > > Oh I am not leaving the forums, or the game, just not giving them money. > > I never took you for a freeloader - my mistake… Not paying for low quality workmanship is hardly freeloading. ---
**Author:** ![Senyu\_Takashi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/senyu_takashi/32/213351_2.png) [@Senyu\_Takashi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Senyu_Takashi)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2020, 8:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/125 "2020-06-29T20:00:25Z")
How on earth it’s not in the sandbox??? You get in, you get blown up, your ship is destroyed, which creates demand for the ship on the market and (if enough numbers of players do it) drive the price up, which will impact both other consumers and industrialists. How the hell is this “not interacting with the sandbox”??? ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2020, 8:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/126 "2020-06-29T20:01:07Z")
You seem confused, and a little angry. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2020, 8:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/127 "2020-06-29T20:01:24Z")
> [@Steve\_Ronuken](#): > > And it means people who have a short play time available, can get out there and have a quick fun fight. Caving in to the 2 hour sound bite crowd. > [@Steve\_Ronuken](#): > > If you want an unfair fight (in either direction) go roam. These force ‘fair’ fights. True Care Bear colors raised, WAA it is not fair! Every player in EVE has the same fair chance to fit right, join a team and win. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2020, 8:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/128 "2020-06-29T20:09:43Z")
Still catching up with the rest of the thread, but I’ve been noticing a common theme; the “fun, fair fight” argument. All y’all geriatrics who play MMOs “in between the work and the missus,” and have never before experienced a single round of CS:GO, or PUBG, or WoW arenas: _I have_, and you have _no idea_ what kinds of ludicrous levels min-maxing can reach. The notion of “having limited time to play so you just go and get a quick, fair match, lol!” exists in your heads only, and has no bearing on reality. What will _actually_ happen is that try-hard fuckbois like me are going to optimize our game to such an extent that you aren’t even going to be able to tell what happened after the fight is over. I majored in math, and do it for a living. Not bragging, just a matter of fact; I’d make a rather terrible mechanic, or a chef. But I _am_ a good nerd. And there are others like me. So when you take away EVE’s unpredictable nature, and sideline the asymmetry inherent in its warfare, what you’re left with is that I’ll be batting at you like a cat toy. And you won’t be able to stop me, because any options that would’ve made me pause in hesitation out of fear of some kind of trap, won’t be available to you. And when I start ranking so high that I’m only seeing players like me in my matches, I’ll switch to a different character and do it over again. I’m the kind of player who’s willing to not get laid to beat you at a video game. Good luck fighting against that. Cue countless complaints about matchmaking, P2W, et cetera. So what next? Are they going to add gear scores to ship setups to force matches based on stats? Are they going to implement skill point brackets? Congratulations! Now we’re eliminating crucial aspects of EVE that make it, well, _EVE_. **That** is why full-featured arenas don’t belong here; not because they’re inherently a bad feature (on the contrary, they can be quite fun, especially for the competitive types), but because they don’t belong in an open-world, full-loot PvP game. At least the current version is somewhat unpredictable, and barely utilized by anyone, so it doesn’t get in the way. But like I said before, it’s easy to see that CCP’s feature trend is toward the elimination of open-ended PvP, and toward a “consensual duel” system. That’s why they’ve been steadily nerfing wars and ganking over the years, eliminated such gameplay mechanics as neutral RR/boosting, and, more recently, started implementing arena-like features. The PvP flag can’t be more than 2-4 years away at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2020, 8:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/129 "2020-06-29T20:12:41Z")
> [@Orca\_Platypus](#): > > Guess my only question is how CCP will screw this up. They don’t actually have to screw it up, it is prebaked to suck. Think about all the aspects that go into other games Arenas, YEARS of tweaking systems that EVE doesn’t even have. Go read other games PvP forums, see all the topics about Instanced PvP Features and then it will be obvious what a mistake this is. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2020, 8:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/130 "2020-06-29T20:16:56Z")
To be fair to CCP - this really isn’t any worse than the alliance tournament itself. ---
**Author:** ![Ploing](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ploing/32/466885_2.png) [@Ploing](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ploing)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2020, 8:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/131 "2020-06-29T20:19:25Z")
the problem with ccp is they are too excited. guys we made gold out of ■■■■ for u. in a few weeeks nobody cares from them. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2020, 8:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/132 "2020-06-29T20:20:51Z")
> [@Senyu\_Takashi](#): > > How on earth it’s not in the sandbox??? Think of it this way, if i can’t follow you everywhere you go, it’s not sandbox. > [@Mike\_Azariah](#): > > btw can an alpha with 5 mill sp make a cruiser specialist who could be fairly set? a frigate? T1? hmmmm 5mil sp would be plenty. It’s the skill restrictions of ship commands to 4, poor navigation skills and weaker T2 guns that are going to be a significant handicap to alphas. Edit- another issue i foresee is ship design. The Gila got balanced because of abyss space. And the domi because of the alliance tournament. It’s possible that if such arenas became a full time thing, the more popular it becomes the more ships are designed around arena gameplay to the detriment of the sandbox. ---
**Author:** ![Sideways\_Bottomsup](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sideways_bottomsup/32/194490_2.png) [@Sideways\_Bottomsup](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sideways_Bottomsup)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2020, 8:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/133 "2020-06-29T20:37:58Z")
I suppose there _is_ a silver lining of sorts, in that the second shoe has dropped, and it looks very much like the first one. No longer do we have to wonder what the Trigs want, or why people were supposed to ‘help’ them without sufficient information as to the end goal. We can now safely assume that Trigs, and the people choosing to help them, are fighting for instanced gameplay in both PvE and PvP. Edencom, on the other hand, represents the sandbox. The lines have been drawn. Fight. ---
**Author:** ![Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zhalyd_lyehin/32/358574_2.png) [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zhalyd_Lyehin)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2020, 8:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/134 "2020-06-29T20:43:00Z")
🔴 > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > I think it’s absurd for folks to be complaining about a feature before they’ve tried it, yes. You calling people absurd? This is absurd. CCP itself has been saying for 17 years that EVE is an uninstanced, single shard universe where everyone can impact everyone. For the past few years, however, CCP keeps moving away from that. You know who is absurd? You. ---
**Author:** ![Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zhalyd_lyehin/32/358574_2.png) [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zhalyd_Lyehin)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2020, 8:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/135 "2020-06-29T20:46:31Z")
🔴 > [@Mike\_Azariah](#): > > So, please, keep the conversation alive **both _positive and negative_** before and more importantly after it goes live. Why should we keep a discussion going positively when the discussed feature is nothing but cancerous? > [@Mike\_Azariah](#): > > queue length, I do play other games and have waited for my turn in a queue until I get up to get a drink and find that I did not hit accept and am back at the bottom of the queue, again Funny thing here is that, if you don’t go in with your friends and instead go afk, you kill your friends. Good way to have fun as well. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2020, 8:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/136 "2020-06-29T20:48:21Z")
> [@tutucox\_Khamsi](#): > > there is skills to > not just bling and sp > [@Brisc\_Rubal](#): > > Sure - if “skill” is included in the “all else being equal.” But we both know that’s never true. Even good pilots make mistakes. Lets be real, the “skill” it takes to PvP is 99% not making mistakes, and there are not even that many mistakes. EVE combat is really simple, childishly so. In fact mistake #549608365094683 is that this is going to highlight the lack of skill actual combat requires. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_Azariah](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mike_azariah/32/512626_2.png) [@Mike\_Azariah](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mike_Azariah)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2020, 8:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/137 "2020-06-29T20:50:23Z")
> [@Daichi\_Yamato](#): > > It’s possible that if such arenas became a full time thing, the more popular it becomes the more ships are designed around arena gameplay to the detriment of the sandbox. Fair comment and decent concern. But with rotating demands of the class going into the proving grounds . . . might not be as needed. Wait and see on that one, I think. m ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Blackbear](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/agent_blackbear/32/450030_2.png) [@Agent\_Blackbear](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Agent_Blackbear)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2020, 9:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/138 "2020-06-29T21:08:08Z")
HOW IS MORE OPTIONS TO PVP A BAD THING?!? The people crying about it sound insane to me. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2020, 9:10pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/139 "2020-06-29T21:10:33Z")
Mostly because we have seen it in other games and the ultimate result was bad. The idea doesn’t sound bad at first. ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2020, 9:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/140 "2020-06-29T21:16:39Z")
> [@Steve\_Ronuken](#): > > This doesn’t stop anyone roaming who wants to roam. Sure, but it removes PvP players from the sandbox making it more difficult to find content in said sandbox. CCP basically splits up the playerbase even more in separate spaces, by probably not attracting more new players to compensate for that loss. It may not be that bad because only a few people are using it, but the direction of thinking is troublesome: let’s copy what other games do, don’t care about sandbox play, we never understood it anyway, it’s much easier to develop. ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2020, 9:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073/141 "2020-06-29T21:21:31Z")
> [@Salt\_Foambreaker](#): > > EVE combat is really simple, childishly so. no its not and you appear to suˆ% at it [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073.md?page=6) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/proving-of-kybernauts-for-glorification-in-the-flow-unfolds/252073.md?page=8)