# Public opinion match! Diana Kim vs Ibrahim Tash-Murkon! **URL:** \ **Category:** Intergalactic Summit\ **Created:** [October 8, 2019, 10:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/public-opinion-match-diana-kim-vs-ibrahim-tash-murkon/194432 "2019-10-08T10:38:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Aria\_Jenneth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aria_jenneth/32/469792_2.png) [@Aria\_Jenneth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aria_Jenneth)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 2:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/public-opinion-match-diana-kim-vs-ibrahim-tash-murkon/194432/43 "2019-10-09T14:35:22Z")
> [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > Maybe I should have taken a DUST operative team to break in to bring apologies next time. I think I can say with certainty that this wouldn’t have gone over well, Ms. Kim. Directrix Daphiti was not in a frame of mind to see you. Which, frankly, is a frame of mind you put her in by your own actions, even if combined with some unintended consequences. Maybe you would have liked to apologize in person at another time and we just missed each other a lot. But even then … Maybe a note or something instead of an assault team? ---
**Author:** ![Rinai\_Vero](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rinai_vero/32/390870_2.png) [@Rinai\_Vero](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rinai_Vero)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 2:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/public-opinion-match-diana-kim-vs-ibrahim-tash-murkon/194432/44 "2019-10-09T14:53:08Z")
> [@Loai\_Qerl](#): > > Diana. You glued a rotty glove to his shoulder. That was not a housework shirt, that was Sarum regalia! Of course things went awfully. I’m honestly a bit furious with both of you. What’s that old Holder expression? Something like “when you lie down with hounds, don’t be surprised when you get up with ticks?” Commander Kim acts like a disrespectful boor everywhere else, some might expect her to behave differently if allowed to attend a formal social function… but one can hardly be surprised when she acts true to form. ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 4:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/public-opinion-match-diana-kim-vs-ibrahim-tash-murkon/194432/45 "2019-10-09T16:18:20Z")
I see a certain gallente troll insists on disrupting threads. I wonder does anyone take her serious anymore except the most dishonorable people in our cluster and traitors like Adams?.. ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 4:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/public-opinion-match-diana-kim-vs-ibrahim-tash-murkon/194432/46 "2019-10-09T16:50:05Z")
> [@Loai\_Qerl](#): > > Diana. You glued a rotty glove to his shoulder. That was not a housework shirt, that was Sarum regalia! Of course things went awfully. I’m honestly a bit furious with both of you. Well, Ms. Loai. Mind moving it to a different topic, or discuss over a cup of coffee? ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 5:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/public-opinion-match-diana-kim-vs-ibrahim-tash-murkon/194432/47 "2019-10-09T17:55:21Z")
> [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > If you have a better alternative, feel free to offer. Here goes: ignore them. You frequently seem to mistake _pride_ for _honor_. Pride is shallow, it gets hurt by petty insults, by being seen or presented in the wrong light, by being mistaken for something one is not. _Honor_ does not require you to rise to every insult, every petty grudge, every nasty word. It goes deeper. Honor is about integrity in front of allies, about knowing your acts are proper and just. Honor breaks in _shame_, not in mere embarrassment. Hope this helps, Else ---
**Author:** ![Tyrel\_Toov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tyrel_toov/32/387953_2.png) [@Tyrel\_Toov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tyrel_Toov)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 6:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/public-opinion-match-diana-kim-vs-ibrahim-tash-murkon/194432/48 "2019-10-09T18:17:03Z")
.\* Insert rebuttal about “honorless” Minmatar speaking out of turn here. \* ---
**Author:** ![Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elsebeth_rhiannon/32/418836_2.png) [@Elsebeth\_Rhiannon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Elsebeth_Rhiannon)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 6:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/public-opinion-match-diana-kim-vs-ibrahim-tash-murkon/194432/49 "2019-10-09T18:20:14Z")
> [@Tyrel\_Toov](#): > > Insert rebuttal about “honorless” Minmatar speaking out of turn here. That would certainly hurt my pride. ---
**Author:** ![Ibrahim\_Tash-Murkon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ibrahim_tash-murkon/32/474183_2.png) [@Ibrahim\_Tash-Murkon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ibrahim_Tash-Murkon)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2019, 11:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/public-opinion-match-diana-kim-vs-ibrahim-tash-murkon/194432/50 "2019-10-09T23:04:23Z")
This was one of my worst ideas and if I ever get around to writing my auto-biography, _“Mistakes Made Because You Think You’re So Damned Clever”_, this anecdote will be made into a small chapter. I have expressed in private that my intent was to display the absolute buffoonery in the Commander’s obsession with and abuse of “honor” as a concept and her cartoonish resorts to dueling as a method to resolve even minor sleights which she inflates to matters of the gravest importance. _(Miss Rhiannon’s comment on the difference between pride and honor serves as a perfect encapsulation of the Commander’s problem and might be the only thing of value to come out of this clown show.)_ Despite my aim I think I only succeeded in giving more life to this ridiculous and repetitive annoyance. If you were to think I’ve also made myself look a little foolish in the attempt I would not disagree. Ten minutes of extra thought before this started and I would have realized that I was not “So Damned Clever”. I watched countless people argue with a wall and fail only to get in line and do exactly the same thing. Pure pride and hot-headed hubris. I was never going to take any of this seriously and, as I have also said in private, I never planned on enforcing the uncouth and sordid beating that the Commander requested and seems so focused on. I will not appoint a whip-master or anything of the sort and if Kim decides to inflict this barbarism on herself out of more confusion on what is and is not “honorable” then at the very least I won’t be there watching. I apologize to those that wanted to see it and those that wanted to do it. If you really are dead set on it just wait for her to challenge you to a duel. It won’t take long. ---
**Author:** ![Rinai\_Vero](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rinai_vero/32/390870_2.png) [@Rinai\_Vero](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rinai_Vero)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 1:25am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/public-opinion-match-diana-kim-vs-ibrahim-tash-murkon/194432/51 "2019-10-10T01:25:25Z")
> [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > I see a certain gallente troll insists on disrupting threads. I’m discussing the topic of this thread just like everyone else, so I hardly see how that could be considered trolling by any reasonable person. That said, if you’d rather I no longer participate in this discussion I’m happy to bow out. Sounds like a perfect opportunity to demonstrate the kind of consideration you so often refuse to extend to others on the IGS. Do carry on with your little attention seeking farce, though. You’re providing absolutely prime material for the Gallentean stand up comedy circuit. ---
**Author:** ![Tabor\_Murn](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tabor_murn/32/164245_2.png) [@Tabor\_Murn](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tabor_Murn)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 3:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/public-opinion-match-diana-kim-vs-ibrahim-tash-murkon/194432/52 "2019-10-10T03:53:24Z")
This is the wisest post I’ve seen on the IGS in some time. Wise enough to pull me out of semi-retirement and reach out to the void my family and I have left behind. It doesn’t matter how clever you are with this one. My wife, Ava, challenged miss Kim to a friendly drinking contest and our Achuran friend publicly branded her a coward for years because they didn’t beat each other to death with vodka bottles. I encourage you to avoid the spectacle. It’s the right move. ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 4:38am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/public-opinion-match-diana-kim-vs-ibrahim-tash-murkon/194432/53 "2019-10-10T04:38:59Z")
> [@Tabor\_Murn](#): > > My wife, Ava, challenged miss Kim to a friendly drinking contest and our Achuran friend publicly branded her a coward for years because they didn’t beat each other to death with vodka bottles. Nice fairytale. Is this what this woman tells you? And you’re saying you _believed THAT_? As far as I remember, she started a contest, didn’t explain rules and simply ran away from it, saying that I “lost”, while it was her who abandoned it. ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 5:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/public-opinion-match-diana-kim-vs-ibrahim-tash-murkon/194432/54 "2019-10-10T05:11:55Z")
> [@Ibrahim\_Tash-Murkon](#): > > I was never going to take any of this seriously and, as I have also said in private, I never planned on enforcing the uncouth and sordid beating that the Commander requested and seems so focused on. I will not appoint a whip-master or anything of the sort and if Kim decides to inflict this barbarism on herself out of more confusion on what is and is not “honorable” then at the very least I won’t be there watching. It’s not about pride, Lord Tash-Murkon. It’s about trust. You see, unlike you, if I gave a word, I always honor it, even if it will cost me flogging, because it is my Caldari way. Unlike trust, flesh can be healed and isk can be regained. And despite you have won the match, you have lost way more than I did. Well, maybe you have found a nice home among similar-minded people in ARC like Makoto Priano, but your actions today, your words - they will be a warning to anyone who will want to wager a bet with you, or make any deals with your organization, since its clear now you’re not the only representative of our organization whose words don’t cost even an empty eggshell. Burt since Lord Tash-Murkon doesn’t wish to participate, I will set the time myself within next 24 hours. Anyone interested in attending can drop me a private NeoCom message with their preferred time before that. ---
**Author:** ![Ibrahim\_Tash-Murkon](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ibrahim_tash-murkon/32/474183_2.png) [@Ibrahim\_Tash-Murkon](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ibrahim_Tash-Murkon)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 5:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/public-opinion-match-diana-kim-vs-ibrahim-tash-murkon/194432/55 "2019-10-10T05:23:28Z")
I am honoring my word and would have done had I lost. I just said wouldn’t have taken it seriously. I am not enforcing any of my rights in victory; your punishment is one you render to yourself and has nothing to do, at this point, with the “duel”. If I had lost I was fully prepared to accept the agreed punishment. There just wasn’t a rule that said I had to have active pain receptors in my clone, or that I couldn’t donate a certain amount of ISK to some worthy Federal cause for each strike of the lash, or that I couldn’t wear an amusing outfit, or sing a silly song. When you’re getting a voluntary whipping for absolutely no reason (besides I guess wanting attention [reference earlier about the difference between pride and honor]) I invite you to do any of the above. ---
**Author:** ![Sah\_Phyre](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sah_phyre/32/378085_2.png) [@Sah\_Phyre](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sah_Phyre)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 5:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/public-opinion-match-diana-kim-vs-ibrahim-tash-murkon/194432/56 "2019-10-10T17:14:31Z")
> [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > As for apologies for you… how LONG have I tried to speak to you to bring them? What was your answer? Have I got an invitation since?.. And after that you DARE to mention them in this tone? You have no **SHAME** , don’t you? I’m just wondering - how well do you expect this “apology” to go over when you’re basically insulting the injured party in the same breath? ---
**Author:** ![Astaire\_Quatrevaux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/astaire_quatrevaux/32/278706_2.png) [@Astaire\_Quatrevaux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Astaire_Quatrevaux)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2019, 8:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/public-opinion-match-diana-kim-vs-ibrahim-tash-murkon/194432/57 "2019-10-10T20:21:09Z")
> [@Diana\_Kim](#): > > but your actions today, your words - they will be a warning to anyone who will want to wager a bet with you, or make any deals with your organization, since its clear now you’re not the only representative of our organization whose words don’t cost even an empty eggshell. On the contrary, having seen Tash-Murkon accept his role in this farce and embrace the wisdom offered to him, while you have done neither, I find myself more inclined to work with him in any organization he should be a part of. (And, given his apparent familial connections, that is not a statement I make lightly.) Neither is this the first time you’ve behaved in such a manner, even recently. You have betrayed allies. And perhaps you’ve attempted to apologize but been unable to contact the Directrix. So what? Try a different tack? Invite her to something with a set date and time so that you’re sure not to miss her? But _certainly_ don’t unload on the person to whom you’re trying to apologize. That’s like trying to build a skyscraper by digging deeper holes. This entire tawdry affair is shameful, Commander, and if nothing else, you should have bowed out once the spectacle died to apathy and consternation, as your opponent did. Instead, you’re still clinging to the frayed tethers: Pride. There is not a shred of honor to be found there. Also, I’m afraid to see who here actually wants to watch you whip yourself. > [@Ibrahim\_Tash-Murkon](#): > > _(Miss Rhiannon’s comment on the difference between pride and honor serves as a perfect encapsulation of the Commander’s problem and might be the only thing of value to come out of this clown show.)_ I will add that if anyone read this thread and finally recognized Commander Kim for the prideful mule that she is, and chooses to stop encouraging her misbehavior, then that is of value as well. ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 5:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/public-opinion-match-diana-kim-vs-ibrahim-tash-murkon/194432/58 "2019-10-11T05:01:06Z")
> [@Astaire\_Quatrevaux](#): > > You have betrayed allies. Now that’s utter nonsence, as expected from a gallente propagandist, who would try only to bring discord between State and Imperial allies. Get out. > [@Astaire\_Quatrevaux](#): > > Instead, you’re still clinging to the frayed tethers: Pride. Like there’s anything WRONG with pride! If you’re Caldari, you shall be Proud with being Caldari, with being member of the State, with wearing your uniform, with defeating all the enemies of the State and with being a member of the strongers force of the New Eden! We aren’t like Minmatars who would succumb to slavery, we’d better kill ourselves than submit to occupants! Yes, we are proud and we are damn proud with being proud! Come at us, if you dare! ---
**Author:** ![Diana\_Kim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/diana_kim/32/382972_2.png) [@Diana\_Kim](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Diana_Kim)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 5:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/public-opinion-match-diana-kim-vs-ibrahim-tash-murkon/194432/59 "2019-10-11T05:02:04Z")
Anyone who would like to participate or watch: Tomorrow. “Ichoriya Arena” 1500 NEST ---
**Author:** ![Veikitamo\_Gesakaarin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/veikitamo_gesakaarin/32/314638_2.png) [@Veikitamo\_Gesakaarin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Veikitamo_Gesakaarin)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 7:09am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/public-opinion-match-diana-kim-vs-ibrahim-tash-murkon/194432/60 "2019-10-11T07:09:01Z")
Being proud and feeling the need to inform people of that pride is the path of a braggart and speaks volumes of an underlying insecurity. Being proud and feeling no need to inform others of it is the path of dignity and speaks volumes of a personal confidence. ---
**Author:** ![Valerie\_Valate](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/valerie_valate/32/386231_2.png) [@Valerie\_Valate](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Valerie_Valate)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 7:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/public-opinion-match-diana-kim-vs-ibrahim-tash-murkon/194432/61 "2019-10-11T07:22:28Z")
If it’s not being dished out by a Cult of the Lash Domina, is it _really_ a whipping ? 🤔 ---
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2019, 9:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/public-opinion-match-diana-kim-vs-ibrahim-tash-murkon/194432/62 "2019-10-11T09:02:24Z")
Should he have an accident throwing him back to his clone vat? Just asking. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/public-opinion-match-diana-kim-vs-ibrahim-tash-murkon/194432.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/public-opinion-match-diana-kim-vs-ibrahim-tash-murkon/194432.md?page=4)