# PvE only systems shouldn't be a thing, but -- **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [November 1, 2022, 11:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pve-only-systems-shouldnt-be-a-thing-but/382729 "2022-11-01T23:23:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2022, 6:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pve-only-systems-shouldnt-be-a-thing-but/382729/131 "2022-12-01T18:35:20Z")
They have a tendency to label their demands as opinions, and then using freedom of expression as a foil to silence dissent. But “CCP when are you going to fix high-sec ganking?” is not the same thing as saying that high-sec ganking should be removed, and then outlining a series of supporting arguments for the position; the former is clearly not an expression of opinion, and they hardly ever do the latter. Most (genuine) anti-ganking threads are merely vitriolic rants/rage-quits after taking a loss. So it’s super-disingenuous to say that we complain about other people having opinions when what’s _really_ happening is that we’re merely attacking their attacks, but let’s face it, this is par for the course for him, so we can’t exactly be surprised. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2022, 6:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pve-only-systems-shouldnt-be-a-thing-but/382729/132 "2022-12-01T18:42:19Z")
> [@Jayce\_Fitzpatrick](#): > > You’re murdering a fuckton of people, if we want to be accurate. Those ships we fly… They actually have a non-capsuleer crew, you know. Then gankers are actually doing a service to save people. Any PVE player running a mission or a combat site, or a miner that kills rats, ends up murdering far more people than gankers do. If we are considering ship crew, the PVEers in EVE are by far the biggest psychopaths in the history of the Universe. Collectively they murder tens of millions of people every day. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2022, 7:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pve-only-systems-shouldnt-be-a-thing-but/382729/134 "2022-12-01T19:03:33Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > More that you have a tendency to label opinions as demands. Let’s look at one of the most recent garbage dumps that were shut down that are still up and visible on the forums: > [@Alpha clone suicide ganking - plague of EVE](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-clone-suicide-ganking-plague-of-eve/367448): > > Just seen a ‘great’ picture today: 5 capsules with similar names and crime status docking at station, than undock in stock coverttes, died from concord and warp off. I’ve check zkillboard and… ~57k EHP Exhumer just died to ganker who drive 5 alpha clones on a dumb cheap 12 mil catalysts. And related to their killboard - he’s repeating this all the time every day. So what he’s punishment? 15 min crime status? Nice joke, CCP rofl rofl man_facepalming Alphas should be banned from PvP i… No presentation of a perceived problem and a proposed solution, no rational discourse outlining justifications for wanting specific changes, just rabid complaints and demands out of anger. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2022, 7:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pve-only-systems-shouldnt-be-a-thing-but/382729/135 "2022-12-01T19:04:10Z")
> [@Bladewise](#): > > You can’t have an opinion that contradicts a known fact. That’s not an opinion afterall, rather a **delusion**. You mean like this one? > [@Bladewise](#): > > I’m pretty sure we’re still paying a pretty hefty fee because of the inflation caused by overly safe Incursions. Incursion income has been declining for 2 years. Most of your posts make it clear why you’re not playing EVE anymore. You’re simply not keeping up with the actual game and instead relying on your (mistaken) perceptions of “back in the day”. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2022, 7:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pve-only-systems-shouldnt-be-a-thing-but/382729/137 "2022-12-01T19:34:58Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > How can you claim that’s whining but stuff like this isn’t: By the same “logic” we all apply - _Raven’s whine isn’t something I agree with, so it was definitely a whine. Blade’s whine was something I agree with, so it wasn’t a whine_ ---
**Author:** ![QuakeGod](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/quakegod/32/480339_2.png) [@QuakeGod](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/QuakeGod)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2022, 7:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pve-only-systems-shouldnt-be-a-thing-but/382729/138 "2022-12-01T19:42:53Z")
You people still arguing and whining about getting killed in a PVP game? ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2022, 7:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pve-only-systems-shouldnt-be-a-thing-but/382729/139 "2022-12-01T19:43:03Z")
> [@Alpha clone suicide ganking - plague of EVE](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-clone-suicide-ganking-plague-of-eve/367448/1): > > Problem: > > > [@Alpha clone suicide ganking - plague of EVE](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-clone-suicide-ganking-plague-of-eve/367448/1): > > > > he’s repeating this all the time every day. > > So what he’s punishment? 15 min crime status? > > Solution: > > > [@Alpha clone suicide ganking - plague of EVE](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-clone-suicide-ganking-plague-of-eve/367448/1): > > > > - Block safety switch for alpha clones. > > - Add cumulative crime status timer. > > You may not agree with him but even that post is just someone voicing their opinion. > How can you claim that’s whining but stuff like this isn’t: Boy you’re really stretching there, aren’t you? Line 1: accusation Line 2: rant Lines 3 and 4: demands I see exactly zero expression of opinion in those four quoted lines. Additionally, there is no genuine presentation of a problem, as one would need to be accompanied by an explanation of _why_ it is a problem in order to be defined as such. > [@Alpha clone suicide ganking - plague of EVE](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/alpha-clone-suicide-ganking-plague-of-eve/367448/368): > > These weren’t alphas. CCP should ban y’all for spreading this ■■■■■■■■. > > It’s bad enough y’all are so pathetic that you’d rather whine then HTFU. THEN you gotta come spread misinformation on the forums? Honestly, a post like this should warrant a temp forum ban at this point. Straight up lying. > > Seriously though. The anti-PvP crowd in this game is the most pathetic community I have ever experienced in my life. Y’all know the least, whine the loudest, and have all but destroyed one of the best games of all time with your entitlement. > > Anti-PvP = Entitled brat I see multiple instances of wording used to denote opinions in that post, such as multiple instances of “should,” a mention of personal experience, etc. Additionally, there’s at least a rudimentary definition of a problem (the spread of false information), with some semblance of justification by saying that they weren’t Alpha accounts, which is used to warrant the proposal for these people being banned. You’re so bad at this. 😂 🤣 🤣 🤣 etc. ---
**Author:** ![Bladewise](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bladewise/32/394387_2.png) [@Bladewise](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bladewise)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2022, 8:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pve-only-systems-shouldnt-be-a-thing-but/382729/140 "2022-12-01T20:44:11Z")
Yea I definitely get a little too edgy at times. Not gonna deny that. It’s hard not to though when presented with endless ignorance. Especially when most of my posts are pretty damn spot on. It also get blown out of proportion because people who complain about PvP in a PvP game have noticably thin skin. God forbid someone say a “curse word” 🤣😂🤡 ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2022, 9:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pve-only-systems-shouldnt-be-a-thing-but/382729/142 "2022-12-01T21:59:46Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > I explained my position on this above. Yes, most people do PvE and PvP, but when you choose to do PvP, noone can come zap you and force you to mine a rock An extremely silly argument…but then most have come to expect such from you. Conflict is the apex of the game…toward which all other efforts contribute. Thus there is a _hierarchy_ of activities and yes, those at the higher level of the hierarchy _can and should_ exert dominance on those at the lower levels. That is the entire essence of the game. At least it was until whiny carebears came along. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2022, 10:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pve-only-systems-shouldnt-be-a-thing-but/382729/143 "2022-12-01T22:05:07Z")
> [@QuakeGod](#): > > You people still arguing and whining about getting killed in a PVP game? No I’m gonna move on to whining that pepperoni pizza has pepperoni in it. I am being _forced_ to eat pepperoni when I buy one, and its outrageous that the manufacturers don’t make a non-pepperoni pepperoni pizza for people like me. ---
**Author:** ![Bladewise](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/bladewise/32/394387_2.png) [@Bladewise](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Bladewise)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2022, 10:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pve-only-systems-shouldnt-be-a-thing-but/382729/144 "2022-12-01T22:08:12Z")
😂😂🤣🤣💀 ---
**Author:** ![tutucox\_Khamsi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tutucox_khamsi/32/430743_2.png) [@tutucox\_Khamsi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/tutucox_Khamsi)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2022, 10:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pve-only-systems-shouldnt-be-a-thing-but/382729/145 "2022-12-01T22:24:49Z")
why you hate pepperoni so much? ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2022, 10:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pve-only-systems-shouldnt-be-a-thing-but/382729/146 "2022-12-01T22:31:51Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > That you’re criticising him but defending blade indicates that you have no interest in being objective. G’day. You’re straw-manning again. I never _defended_ anyone. I only observed that what Bladewise said was consistent with expressing opinions, and outlining a problem and proposing a solution to it. You rely on fallacies _way_ too much for someone who’s trying to role-play as the forum’s well-adjusted, moderate voice of reason. ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2022, 10:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pve-only-systems-shouldnt-be-a-thing-but/382729/147 "2022-12-01T22:35:20Z")
> [@tutucox\_Khamsi](#): > > why you hate pepperoni so much? PvP isn’t Players vs Pepperoni ? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2022, 11:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pve-only-systems-shouldnt-be-a-thing-but/382729/148 "2022-12-01T23:08:26Z")
Empire space is Losec and HS ---
**Author:** ![Gix\_Firebrand](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gix_firebrand/32/456949_2.png) [@Gix\_Firebrand](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gix_Firebrand)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 12:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pve-only-systems-shouldnt-be-a-thing-but/382729/149 "2022-12-02T00:07:23Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Also I didn’t start with the name calling. You did and if you continue with it, I’ll just start flagging your posts and send complaints to CCP about it… Ew. > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > This is entirely anecdotal. You can receive a much more accurate picture by either looking at the kill board, or actually embedding yourself within the ganking community to find out the motivations and psychology behind its members, which are two things that you _haven’t_ done. Exactly. Most ganking is done for profit. With some lulz thrown in. These posters know this. Their whole shtick is just to get it removed so they can safely AFK thru high sec. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > From what I’ve seen there are plenty of people who complain aboute PvE being rewarding without the PvE player being forced into PvP. They want PvE to cease to exist and for it to be replaced by some quasi PvP mechanic whereby the player seeking the reward is getting paid for being “prey”. LOL wut. Not really bro. Risk simply has to match reward. There are 3 SoE hubs. Easy enough to stockpile and JC between to avoid Hawk. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > It’s not an “anti-PvP” movement, it’s an “anti-forced-PvP” movement and it’s driven mainly by shifts in overall MMO markets. Players who are interested in PvE don’t want to be forced to have to engage in PvP on someone else’s whim Then play another game 😃 There are tons out there 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > There still are just “players” now. I PvP and I PvE. Sure you do bruv. Sure you do 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Nearly everyone I play with does the same. Oh? Drop some names 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Yet still they think PvP combat should be forced on everyone at all times No one actually ever says this but you 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > What I oppose is the people who think PvP combat should be ingrained into everything, stripping away player choice. But they did choose it. They chose to play EVE 😃 > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > “PvP players” still need income streams to pay for normal character progression, and to be able to fund at least a _portion_ of their PvP activities (being entirely self-sufficient through PvP alone is 1%er-level gameplay Sadly true. I loved being a pirate but we were broke much of the time and that was even when piracy was at least a little bit more viable. I would absolutely love to just be an actual low sec pirate again but it simply isn’t feasible. You can’t fund your lifestyle thru that alone anymore. > [@x123xxx](#): > > Still not my main. Your points are baseless and infantile. Then post with your main bruv 😃 > [@x123xxx](#): > > Do you think that’s an insult? Who do you think built this game? The original devs loved classic UO. So uh, not carebears 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > And you’ll continue to have zero evidence as I have no reason to provide any. I don’t need to justify myself to you, and the fact that this is what you guys keep falling back to suggests you aren’t discussing in good faith. Actually it’s because you’ve been proven a liar several times over 😃 You have no credibility my boy. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Fact is I do lowsec and nullsec roams, some highsec wars, some structure bashing, etc. A varied playstyle just like most other people. Sure you do bro. Sure you do 😃 > [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > More importantly, you’ve proven yourself to be nothing more than a lying troll pudknocker desperately trying to instigate a forum flame war… > > Now you can sod off too… As I said, its so disappointing when you realize the creator of the plan is a quafewaffle LOL. > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > You’re the one who keeps bragging about all the stuff you do. If you didn’t make those claims all the time, we wouldn’t be asking for evidence. But if you insist on constantly bragging without backing it up, we’ll keep calling it out to publicly embarrass you. Watch out. He has a whole huge logi fleet yennoe. It’s bigly 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > This guy is industry and trade. I’m not sure why you are struggling with this. Yep. And we know it isn’t your main 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > This is my main. Oh really? Then why didn’t you use him when you went to grief Altara? Esp since she would have recognized you off the bat huh? We know why 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Please refrain from personal attacks. ROFL. We all don’t go back and redact like you do 😃 > [@x123xxx](#): > > Nothing worth replying to, honestly. The topic is “PvE only systems”, which should be all of **Empire Space**. We pay taxes and expect better security. CCP will eventually lock all -10’s of of HS and disable the safety button…as they should. Crying won’t save ganking, you guys need to learn a new skill. Sure. Just move 3/4 missions to low, all ore but trit, all ice, all incursions and FOB, and only allow T1 abyssals to be run in HS. Then I’ll sign off 😃 > [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > Yah, people who PvP are proud of it and want to share. None of them hide behind an alt and pretend they have some super secret mystery PvP going on. Watch out. Remember Grampy has a whole ganker fleet of alts. Somewhere. > [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > That said, long experience with the game, and lots of data reviewed, has led me to believe ganking is more likely to lose players _after_ they’ve played for a few months - not newbies. (Note: this was not my original opinion on the issue. I originally expected that players getting ganked in their first few weeks would be a thing.) > > Once they’ve put some time and ISK into something they think is going to be “a new stage” of the game for them (first hauler, first barge, first BS, whatever) and _then_ get ganked… that’s when I see players saying “Screw this I’m out”. This. It isn’t nubs being ganked. It comes down to people not bothering to learn the game they are playing. > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Players back then were also generally much more inclined to fight in various situations and scenarios than they are today, instead of sitting there and just taking it, or rage-quitting on the spot. This. This attitude of defeatism and victimhood. I’ve seen it in other games too and it boggles my mind. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > More that you have a tendency to label opinions as demands. Ah so you admit it’s opinions you have and not facts. Cool 😃 > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > Look at any of these threads for countless examples. Bladewise is always a good one, the other day he was swearing and calling on ISDs to ban people. ROFL you went after an ISD directly my guy. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > FTFY. Maybe try anger management. This is rich coming from you 😃 > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > You rely on fallacies _way_ too much for someone who’s trying to role-play as the forum’s well-adjusted, moderate voice of reason. It’s so fun when he slips up and then tries to overcorrect like this. It never lasts tho ROFL. ---
**Author:** ![Io\_Koval](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/io_koval/32/282426_2.png) [@Io\_Koval](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Io_Koval)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 7:41am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pve-only-systems-shouldnt-be-a-thing-but/382729/150 "2022-12-02T07:41:54Z")
> [@Max\_Deveron](#): > > Empire space is Losec and HS The new Caldari sovereignty in Nullsec in Syndicate says otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Deveron](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/max_deveron/32/245870_2.png) [@Max\_Deveron](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Max_Deveron)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 8:02am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pve-only-systems-shouldnt-be-a-thing-but/382729/151 "2022-12-02T08:02:40Z")
either way i was refuting her statement implying Empire Space was only HS ---
**Author:** ![Phencyclidine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/phencyclidine/32/304224_2.png) [@Phencyclidine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Phencyclidine)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 1:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pve-only-systems-shouldnt-be-a-thing-but/382729/153 "2022-12-02T13:45:57Z")
Is tethering PVE or PVP? ---
**Author:** ![Altara\_Zemara](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/altara_zemara/32/390110_2.png) [@Altara\_Zemara](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Altara_Zemara)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 2:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pve-only-systems-shouldnt-be-a-thing-but/382729/154 "2022-12-02T14:35:40Z")
> [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > It’s not my fault that you think MMOs should be immutable. Ah, yet another of your devious and dishonest arguing methods. Making assertions people never made. I see Destiny also called you out on that. Of course, there’s a huge difference between a game being subject to minor incremental fixes and adaptations over time…and changes to the very core nature of the game. Chess has had a few rule changes over time, but _it is still fundamentally the same game_. If you changed chess so much that it became poker, it would not be chess any more. So your entire ‘immutable’ thing is just sheer dishonesty. > [@Lucas\_Kell](#): > > All the time you play EVE though you are accepting that people other than you have the right to voice their views. One would hope that the International Chess Association has a suitable standard sardonic response to ’ I think chess should be completely changed and be exactly like poker ’ customer letters. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pve-only-systems-shouldnt-be-a-thing-but/382729.md?page=6) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pve-only-systems-shouldnt-be-a-thing-but/382729.md?page=8)