# PvE Roundtable - Saturday 31st of March **URL:** \ **Category:** Assembly Hall\ **Created:** [March 15, 2018, 5:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pve-roundtable-saturday-31st-of-march/63188 "2018-03-15T17:56:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2018, 6:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pve-roundtable-saturday-31st-of-march/63188/103 "2018-03-17T18:40:02Z")
> [@Jin\_taan](#): > > Well, the content itself is by all accounts really good, the problem is the reward structure. Can you elaborate why do you think so? Because I think it is very bad content for various reasons. First it requires group play from new players in an environment where group play is generally punished and not supported with game mechanics. Second it promotes mining as the first thing new players should do. Third it shields players from the several aspects of the sandbox (it must to make it work) giving the illusion EvE is a different game than it is. IMO, RW should have never hit TQ. ---
**Author:** ![Jin\_taan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jin_taan/32/381307_2.png) [@Jin\_taan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jin_taan)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2018, 6:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pve-roundtable-saturday-31st-of-march/63188/104 "2018-03-17T18:47:06Z")
> [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > Can you elaborate why do you think so? Sure, here’s some quotes from the thread. > [@EveDataRules](#): > > Resource wars could be very good content > [@Chan\_aar](#): > > RW didn’t take off because > > The rewards suck, I get the idea behind the pre-packed ships but it doesn’t work in Eve. Add more of the skins, make them available on their own, allow them to be traded on the market (who’s idea was that FFS?) > Getting random people to group up in Eve is hard because THIS IS EVE, its motto is trust no-one! (I have no idea how to fix this btw) > Because of the different restrictions on the sites it is hard to do RW for any length of time as the time travelling to find sites for the ships you have soon exceeds the time you are actually doing the content. (again I’m not sure of how to fix this) [Note no indication of the CONTENT being the problem, just the difficulties in finding people to do it with, which I’ll cede is a point, and one CCP tried to fix, but simply didn’t have time to.] > [@Penance\_Toralen](#): > > For the Resource Wars: The actual content itself was superb. > [@elitatwo](#): > > Yes it was for me. And who came up with the idea of having a Raven with t1 modules that do not belong on a Raven as a “reward”?? [In response to my question if ISK/h was the main problem] > [@Iwo\_Sh\_ivah](#): > > Resource Wars - I found them quite entertaining at the beginning and I’m not even a miner. Mining under pressure, managing the tank and killing rats was challenging and I can see myself doing it more but … at the end of the day bills have to be paid and rewards weren’t justifying me getting into mining skills. I’d probably go for it if the rewards were at least cool and worth keeping but unfortunatedly they aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![Jin\_taan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jin_taan/32/381307_2.png) [@Jin\_taan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jin_taan)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2018, 6:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pve-roundtable-saturday-31st-of-march/63188/105 "2018-03-17T18:53:55Z")
> [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > First it requires group play from new players in an environment where group play is generally punished and not supported with game mechanics. I will agree that right now, the Wardec mechanics make something like RW (and to a lesser extent FoBs) less attractive, as they require co-operation that is intended to be done within a corporation, but in doing so puts one at risk. That, however, is a seperate topic - and [one I did another roundtable on](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbnfY2jdtFs), talking to the wardeccers themselves. I’d appreciate it if we can keep discussions of Wardecs out of this thread though, as it inevitably leads to flame wars that I quite frankly don’t want to have to deal with in what has been a very constructive and informative thread. > [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > Second it promotes mining as the first thing new players should do. I actually would disagree there, as it allows you two options - You can mine or you can defend other miners. It’s intended to not be prejudiced based on whether a new player is interested in mining or combat, not to encourage mining. However, without a solid way of building a group, this isn’t the case. > [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > Third it shields players from the several aspects of the sandbox (it must to make it work) giving the illusion EvE is a different game than it is. Possibly. > [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > IMO, RW should have never hit TQ. Gonna give that a hard disagree. It just should have been given some iteration on things that were noted upon its release to the public. However, getting CCP to iterate on things is hard, as you’re probably well aware seeing as you follow a lot of what I post. ---
**Author:** ![Erethond](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/erethond/32/11049_2.png) [@Erethond](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Erethond)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2018, 7:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pve-roundtable-saturday-31st-of-march/63188/106 "2018-03-17T19:04:27Z")
> [@Jin\_taan](#): > > It’s intended to not be prejudiced based on whether a new player is interested in mining or combat, not to encourage mining. However if you look on the RW threads, one of the first thing that was said was: “If you bring a combat ship, you’re dumb. Bring a mining ship to help complete sites faster and increase reward/time, just tank the NPCs”. There could be a few solutions for that: - NPCs accumulate such that 100% mining ships can’t take them - NPCs use ECM/Webs/Neuts so their removal necessary - NPCs give bounties such that it is still decent isk/hr to kill them. But currently, even if rewards were good, people would run 100% mining ships (maybe with combat drones). ---
**Author:** ![Tipa\_Riot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tipa_riot/32/443513_2.png) [@Tipa\_Riot](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tipa_Riot)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2018, 7:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pve-roundtable-saturday-31st-of-march/63188/107 "2018-03-17T19:16:47Z")
> [@Jin\_taan](#): > > You can mine or you can defend other miners. Agree, it boils down to the group organization aspect, a combat or logi pilot can’t complete the site, there must be a miner first. So it centers around mining. Also it’s more about temporary teams like we have for Incursions (where the rewards make it worth to organize). Corps as a long term group building is not the right solution space here. The game does not support team building outside corps, which is a problem. > [@Jin\_taan](#): > > It just should have been given some iteration on things that were noted upon its release to the public. I don’t think iterations would solve the mentioned issues. For temp group play to work you have to implement complete new game mechanics, also I doubt CCP would have upped the rewards to a level where group play is worthwile over solo play. ---
**Author:** ![Drago\_Shouna](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/drago_shouna/32/350651_2.png) [@Drago\_Shouna](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Drago_Shouna)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2018, 7:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pve-roundtable-saturday-31st-of-march/63188/108 "2018-03-17T19:52:31Z")
What I’d be interested in is how many of the 30 you had last time are actually running these and the other new content, and how many in the thread are actively running them. ---
**Author:** ![Chan\_aar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/chan_aar/32/377560_2.png) [@Chan\_aar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Chan_aar)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2018, 8:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pve-roundtable-saturday-31st-of-march/63188/109 "2018-03-17T20:07:26Z")
> [@Jin\_taan](#): > > It just should have been given some iteration on things that were noted upon its release to the public We noted and informed CCP of the problems with RW **before** it was released, the test server thread had lots of people telling them it would be DOA content unless they changed the contents of the LP store. For them to say they are abandoning the feature without revisiting it smacks of them taking the huff because the players were proved right. ---
**Author:** ![elitatwo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elitatwo/32/373473_2.png) [@elitatwo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/elitatwo)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2018, 9:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pve-roundtable-saturday-31st-of-march/63188/110 "2018-03-17T21:50:03Z")
> [@Erethond](#): > > There could be a few solutions for that: > > - NPCs accumulate such that 100% mining ships can’t take them > - NPCs use ECM/Webs/Neuts so their removal necessary Well the novice ones (level 1) can be done only in a Venture and in the level 2 there is lots of webbing going on already. I wanted to take my Endurance because she is endurance enough to deal some damage while mining. Couldn’t do the level 3 because you need to do a lot of level 2 to do level 3 but you cannot complete those in time by your lonesome, so I didn’t bother. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2018, 7:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pve-roundtable-saturday-31st-of-march/63188/111 "2018-03-18T07:01:56Z")
I dont think they want to acknowledge that its because of the rewards mainly. There are some issues with the sites alone, they could be structured differently, but main culprit is the rewards. I think that rewards mainly are the thing that is discouraging people. What is wrong with them? Instead of LP, you pay mainly ISK, huge amounts. Also the SKINs that you cant sell for profit. People would like to earn LP, then exchange it to stuff, and sell stuff on market for ISK. And the store doesnt have faction mining crystals, doesnt have modules, doesnt have implants. It looks poor. ---
**Author:** ![Black\_Pedro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/black_pedro/32/257285_2.png) [@Black\_Pedro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Black_Pedro)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2018, 12:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pve-roundtable-saturday-31st-of-march/63188/112 "2018-03-18T12:47:05Z")
> [@Jin\_taan](#): > > it’s a part of the feature the CSM was intensely concerned about And I am very glad that you and your colleagues were so concerned. Frankly so was I when I first heard about Resource Wars, until Affinity gave us more details and I saw how short the sites were and how much moving was required. Please keep up the fight to save the sandbox. 👍 I only hope your concerns over this upcoming mystery feature were given proper consideration and taken on board. ---
**Author:** ![Jin\_taan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jin_taan/32/381307_2.png) [@Jin\_taan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jin_taan)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2018, 3:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pve-roundtable-saturday-31st-of-march/63188/113 "2018-03-18T15:44:41Z")
> [@Black\_Pedro](#): > > Please keep up the fight to save the sandbox. 👍 I only hope your concerns over this upcoming mystery feature were given proper consideration and taken on board. We did what we could - I can’t even take major credit for it though, people like Judge and Aryth spearheaded this one, as I was indisposed last summit. Give them some love if you get a chance 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Litsea\_Reticulata](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/litsea_reticulata/32/328016_2.png) [@Litsea\_Reticulata](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Litsea_Reticulata)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2018, 3:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pve-roundtable-saturday-31st-of-march/63188/114 "2018-03-18T15:55:39Z")
> [@Jin\_taan](#): > > Resource Wars - Why didn’t it take off, was it purely a ISK/h problem or were there other issues? How is the gameplay experience? What (do you think) would be required for RW to be run, even if the payouts were kept below a baseline activity like L4 running? There was no attribute booster or skill injector reward, so I did something more ISK/hr. > [@Jin\_taan](#): > > \*\* Subtopic - Is the ‘instancing’ of Resource Wars an issue? What gameplay does it prevent? Did not know this content was instanced. Prevents someone from being forced out of a site so those who are not bling fit have a chance and discourages ganking I guess. > [@Jin\_taan](#): > > \*\* Subtopic - What tools is social PvE missing? Finding others who are of appropriate skill and character. No point doing a site where your ship is in the hands of some random logi and gets you killed. > [@Jin\_taan](#): > > Would being able to set up a fleet advert with “anyone within x jumps can see”, or something along those lines help? Anyone with ‘x’ skill points or can fly ‘y’ ship type, maybe. > [@Jin\_taan](#): > > The Agency - How useful is it for finding PvE content you already enjoy? Incursions. No better than the old way. > [@Jin\_taan](#): > > How useful is it for indicating new content that you might enjoy? I sometimes click on it by accident and instantly regret it. Most content in there isn’t worth the loss in ISK/h over incursions and the increased risk of getting ganked flying a nice PvE ship. > [@Jin\_taan](#): > > Are there any features missing from the Agency? How about a nice notification when I fly near an incursion that a fleet needs DPS, Logistics or another role that matches my skills? > [@Jin\_taan](#): > > NPC FoBs/Soitoyos - What is the biggest barrier to completing a FoB/Soitoyo? Is the content fun to run? What could be done to make them easier to attempt without reducing the difficulty substantially? What problems (if any) are there with the looting mechanics? If I only have 2 hours to play I want to feel like I did something with those 2 hours other than die horribly to a rubric’s cube in space. > [@Jin\_taan](#): > > Missions - I’ve talked previously about adding missions to the mission running pool, but what - if any - changes from the traditional mission structure would be good? What are your favourite missions in terms of play experience (not monetary gain)? > > \*\* Note - I am not interested in discussing the idea of ‘letting players create their own missions’. It’s a nice idea, but it’s not one I think is pragmatically likely to happen. Accepting missions remotely would be nice, feels like there is a lot of unnecessary travel time. > [@Jin\_taan](#): > > Incursions - What problems are there with Incursions? A lot of ships are just awful to run an incursion with because missiles have such poor application to small or fast moving targets. A blaster Rokh is preferred to a rattlesnake because of DPS application. Amor ships are penalised because of the need to trade off DPS vs EHP. > [@Jin\_taan](#): > > Do people feel Incursions have become ‘too well known’? The AFK VNI is more well known, at least an incursion has some barriers to entry. > [@Jin\_taan](#): > > Does the ISK from Hisec Incursions make other PvE options less attractive? Other PvE options are less attractive due to the fact nice L4 PvE Golems get blown to pieces on a regular basis. ---
**Author:** ![elitatwo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/elitatwo/32/373473_2.png) [@elitatwo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/elitatwo)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2018, 10:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pve-roundtable-saturday-31st-of-march/63188/115 "2018-03-18T22:31:53Z")
> [@Jin\_taan](#): > > Does the ISK from Hisec Incursions make other PvE options less attractive? Nope, not at all. I am rather doing things I know than things I cannot do by myself. Though burner missions are terrible and too expensive. I always skip those. ---
**Author:** ![Penance\_Toralen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/penance_toralen/32/244089_2.png) [@Penance\_Toralen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Penance_Toralen)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 2:33am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pve-roundtable-saturday-31st-of-march/63188/116 "2018-03-20T02:33:03Z")
> [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > First it requires group play from new players in an environment where group play is generally punished and not supported with game mechanics. It is generally understood that a player with social connections has better longevity than those without. Getting new players to make those connections is a good thing. I would agree that it can be easy to sabotage a group effort - if that it the sort of “punishment” you are referring to. > [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > Second it promotes mining as the first thing new players should do. I would normally agree to this sentiment, I have argued elsewhere that Industry should be gated behind basic ship operation for the NPE. However, there is a lot more to RW that just “laser the space rocks”. Managing time, capacitor, tank and propulsion are a key tasks necessary to complete the objective. These are valuable skills which extend beyond mining. > [@Tipa\_Riot](#): > > Third it shields players from the several aspects of the sandbox (it must to make it work) giving the illusion EvE is a different game than it is. The “big secret” which only is explained in the recent CSM Summit; is that CCP intended this content as a mentoring of new players by the experienced. Firstly, it should have been released with this purpose clearly stated by CCP. I don’t think it was. Because it is meant to be an extension of the NPE is a justification to the shielding aspect. It is also why the rewards are intentionally sub-par. The actual reward comes from the learning/teaching. Secondly - relying on altruism in Eve is an oxymoron. How many of us would do something for nothing? Just about everybody who looks at RW focuses on the rewards - which translates as “what’s in this for me”. ---
**Author:** ![Jeremiah\_Saken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jeremiah_saken/32/266740_2.png) [@Jeremiah\_Saken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jeremiah_Saken)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 10:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pve-roundtable-saturday-31st-of-march/63188/117 "2018-03-20T10:58:40Z")
Well, I did listen to the last roundtable. I have rather sad conclusions. Most of them are about group, social, pve content most of participants talked. It is impossible to create that kind of content in EvE. They would end like incursions today. It can’t be too easy because it would be soloable and we don’t need another incursions. If what people told about them at roundtable is true, they are not being run in LS and NS for obvious reasons and they inject huge amount of ISK to the market for HS only. It’s a cancer to the economy. It should be risk vs reward. Nullsec players farm them in HS? They supposed to get the ISK from the place they living in. It’s all upside down. Why you want to push group activity to pve so hard? Just because you liked drifter hive? Promile of the promile players will ever see those things. Elitist incursions? Sotyos of FOBs? This RW joke? It’s a content for small group of players not for the masses waiting to shake the stale state of pve. We have more important things to revamp that adding more of that. Like missions for example, there were few good ideas, some of which I posted on forums several times. Last, anyone who think pve should be a stepping stone or teaching to pvp don’t know what they talk about. This won’t happen, ever, even with burner mission. Rats are not humans. They are scripted to do what they suppose to do. They don’t fail fit, shitty fly, etc. they are predictable, and they are not for that in the game. Most of pve activities are for ISK gathering. Stop asking for player like AI, shoot players instead. ---
**Author:** ![Iwo\_Sh\_ivah](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iwo_sh_ivah/32/32800_2.png) [@Iwo\_Sh\_ivah](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iwo_Sh_ivah)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 6:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pve-roundtable-saturday-31st-of-march/63188/118 "2018-03-20T18:38:03Z")
> [@Jeremiah\_Saken](#): > > Last, anyone who think pve should be a stepping stone or teaching to pvp don’t know what they talk about. This won’t happen, ever, even with burner mission. Rats are not humans. They are scripted to do what they suppose to do. They don’t fail fit, shitty fly, etc. they are predictable It’s not about making NPC’s act like human. In fact people still want pve to be less hostile and more predictable than pvp. It’s about using mechanics tied to pvp rather than pve resulting in blurring or removing the, now sharp, line between those two. It’s about people learning and getting used to fitting, flying and properly using ships with pvp fit, through pve. Even if it’s only at basic level. > [@Jeremiah\_Saken](#): > > … and they are not for that in the game. Most of pve activities are for ISK gathering. Stop asking for player like AI, shoot players instead. You’re talking about pvp’ers financing their pvp through pve and there’s a push button/receive reward activity for that - ratting. Pve’ers run pve because they like pve, because pve is always within reach and dynamic or not, unlike pvp, is held within boundaries (no titan hotdrops in a lvl4 mission). ---
**Author:** ![Jeremiah\_Saken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jeremiah_saken/32/266740_2.png) [@Jeremiah\_Saken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jeremiah_Saken)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 7:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pve-roundtable-saturday-31st-of-march/63188/119 "2018-03-20T19:06:10Z")
> [@Iwo\_Sh\_ivah](#): > > It’s not about making NPC’s act like human. In fact people still want pve to be less hostile and more predictable than pvp. It’s about using mechanics tied to pvp rather than pve resulting in blurring or removing the, now sharp, line between those two. It’s about people learning and getting used to fitting, flying and properly using ships with pvp fit, through pve. Even if it’s only at basic level. Things you don’t understand we don’t need pvp fit or even it would be suicide to fit in some cases because of the pve nature of the sites ( fit must mitigate incoming damage at the start of each rooms for example removing two slot for pvp modules would be suicide in shield tank hulls). What pver will learn by fitting scram and web on BS to do pve site? > [@Iwo\_Sh\_ivah](#): > > You’re talking about pvp’ers financing their pvp through pve and there’s a push button/receive reward activity for that - ratting. Pve’ers run pve because they like pve, because pve is always within reach and dynamic or not, unlike pvp, is held within boundaries (no titan hotdrops in a lvl4 mission). Agree, I do pve because I like pve and what I earn is just an offspring of what I do. ---
**Author:** ![Iwo\_Sh\_ivah](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/iwo_sh_ivah/32/32800_2.png) [@Iwo\_Sh\_ivah](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Iwo_Sh_ivah)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 7:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pve-roundtable-saturday-31st-of-march/63188/120 "2018-03-20T19:32:45Z")
> [@Jeremiah\_Saken](#): > > Things you don’t understand we don’t need pvp fit or even it would be suicide to fit in some cases because of the pve nature of the sites ( fit must mitigate incoming damage at the start of each rooms for example removing two slot for pvp modules would be suicide in shield tank hulls). What pver will learn by fitting scram and web on BS to do pve site? I do of course understand that fitting a scram to a current lvl4 mission doesn’t make much sense (at least in HS). It’s inefficient and has no purpose. But … If new pve would require omni tank, rats would scram yet you could shut them off using neuts or jamming it would be a whole new story. Let’s say a mission would require you to combat scan a fleet of hostiles (no bookmark, no gates, they’re somewhere within two jumps), engage and kill them, or just tank them and hold their boss scrammed till a backup provided by the agent comes in (or maybe rats would have backup incoming so you better hurry). Wouldn’t that be interesting? Wouldn’t that narrow the gap between pvp and pve? ---
**Author:** ![Drago\_Shouna](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/drago_shouna/32/350651_2.png) [@Drago\_Shouna](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Drago_Shouna)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 7:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pve-roundtable-saturday-31st-of-march/63188/121 "2018-03-20T19:39:36Z")
> [@Iwo\_Sh\_ivah](#): > > Wouldn’t that be interesting? Wouldn’t that narrow the gap between pvp and pve? Why do you presume players want that gap narrowing? No thanks, I don’t want my pve to become more and more a pain in the arse… If I want harder pve I’ll go run Sanctums in Null, in HS I just want to chill like most players. ---
**Author:** ![Jeremiah\_Saken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jeremiah_saken/32/266740_2.png) [@Jeremiah\_Saken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jeremiah_Saken)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2018, 8:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pve-roundtable-saturday-31st-of-march/63188/122 "2018-03-20T20:01:45Z")
> [@Iwo\_Sh\_ivah](#): > > If new pve would require omni tank, rats would scram yet you could shut them off using neuts or jamming it would be a whole new story. when do talking about new pve became “switch it to the pvp”? Why do you all thinks pvers are so miserable that you need them to saw what the “real” face of the game is and switch to your gameplay style? If pvers want to do pvp they would pvp. We don’t need to fil the gap between two playstyles, it’s too late to do that. Pve god mode is from the very begining of the EvE, switching it to the burners direction won’t go well. Not to mention omni tanking pve ships would butcher whole pirate faction background (one tengu to do them all). > [@Iwo\_Sh\_ivah](#): > > Let’s say a mission would require you to combat scan a fleet of hostiles (no bookmark, no gates, they’re somewhere within two jumps), engage and kill them, or just tank them and hold their boss scrammed till a backup provided by the agent comes in (or maybe rats would have backup incoming so you better hurry). Wouldn’t that be interesting? Wouldn’t that narrow the gap between pvp and pve? No, it’s overcomplicated. I don’t mind to use warp disruption modules in some missions, I even proposed that in “hunt” type missions but you mixing so many play styles (exploration, missioning, combat scanning). RW seems fun too, in theory, but for whom is that content? Why vets should teach anybody how to mine? Go to NS, get a fit for barge, undock and mine, it’s that simple. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pve-roundtable-saturday-31st-of-march/63188.md?page=5) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pve-roundtable-saturday-31st-of-march/63188.md?page=7)