# \[PvP\] ESS Deadspace Grid: No Meaningful Counterplay for Defenders **URL:** \ **Category:** Assembly Hall\ **Tags:** null-sec, pvp\ **Created:** [August 21, 2026, 12:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pvp-ess-deadspace-grid-no-meaningful-counterplay-for-defenders/516829 "2026-08-21T12:46:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2026, 9:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pvp-ess-deadspace-grid-no-meaningful-counterplay-for-defenders/516829/145 "2026-10-20T09:06:19Z")
It appears you misinterpreted that part. I’m not talking about the capabilities of the defender there. I’m saying that **if the nanogang** is capable they can stay out of combat even without ESS grid to endlessly burn away on. I’ll edit the text to add more clarity. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2026, 9:23am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pvp-ess-deadspace-grid-no-meaningful-counterplay-for-defenders/516829/146 "2026-10-20T09:23:48Z")
Just a question: if they kite outslde the ESS, how about warping 2 Carriers there? CJFG after them (which already covers 500km), then send Fighters after them? Nanogangs usually don’t tank that much and are no threat to a capital either, so the Carriers could be fit for high application and fighter speed. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Pasta\_Patriarch](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_pasta_patriarch/32/496081_2.png) [@The\_Pasta\_Patriarch](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Pasta_Patriarch)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2026, 11:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pvp-ess-deadspace-grid-no-meaningful-counterplay-for-defenders/516829/147 "2026-10-20T11:56:01Z")
What extra skill would you be getting on the standing fleet side? Also your caveat of “pinging safes only works if you’re competent” is just as valid of a caveat as “burning away in a straight line only works if your ship is fast enough” Nano gangs do not have a mechanical monopoly on speed. All the tools available to avoid a fight on an ess grid can be used against them. It’s disingenuous to claim the skill ceiling goes up by reducing the range people can kite for both parties, when you are doing so to address a skill issue by one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2026, 12:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pvp-ess-deadspace-grid-no-meaningful-counterplay-for-defenders/516829/148 "2026-10-20T12:07:11Z")
> [@The\_Pasta\_Patriarch](#): > > What extra skill would you be getting on the standing fleet side? The defenders get to show how capable they are with the combat probing skill. If they’re not skilled it should be a breeze for the roaming gang to stay alive. Like I said, it creates skilled gameplay from both sides if burning endlessly on the ESS grid is limited. > [@The\_Pasta\_Patriarch](#): > > Nano gangs do not have a mechanical monopoly on speed. All the tools available to avoid a fight on an ess grid can be used against them. No, the nano gang _does_ have a monopoly on fleeing on the ESS grid. The situation is asymmetrical. There is no point for defenders to fly ahead and flee from the roaming gang using the ESS grid, the defenders want to force an engagement after all. If the defenders wanted to flee they could simply dock up (and forfeit the ESS money, skyhook fuel, killed ratters and/or some shield timers.) Instead the defenders want to chase, and nano gangs do have the advantage here. For example, if you burn for 2.5km/s for 5 minutes straight a defender needs to exceed **5km/s** for another 5 minutes to even catch up. That’s not symmetrical either. It is clear the ESS grid does not benefit both the roaming gang and defenders equally. The ESS grid allows fast ships to do kiting combat and to burn into safety. I wish to keep the kiting combat intact. But I also wish to stop the ‘burn to safety’ part by limiting how far you can move from the deadspace entry point. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Pasta\_Patriarch](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_pasta_patriarch/32/496081_2.png) [@The\_Pasta\_Patriarch](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Pasta_Patriarch)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2026, 12:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pvp-ess-deadspace-grid-no-meaningful-counterplay-for-defenders/516829/149 "2026-10-20T12:13:44Z")
Yeah, so you are being disingenuous here. You haven’t increased the skill ceiling with your proposed change. Scanning them down happens after they leave the ess, which you want to make easier to force. If you don’t want to be burning for a long time, you can either be there sooner so they’ve covered less distance or fit a ship to go faster. Which one of these solutions feels unfair to you? ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2026, 12:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pvp-ess-deadspace-grid-no-meaningful-counterplay-for-defenders/516829/150 "2026-10-20T12:16:20Z")
I explained it with the numerical example that a defence force chasing a kiting group faces **far higher speed requirements** in order to **catch up** , because in equal fits you would at best keep the same distance forever. This creates an unequal situation which results in a standoff and lack of skilled content where players can simply ‘do nothing’ and go have a bio break for 15 minutes until they can filament away. That does not seem like a healthy dynamic to me. ---
**Author:** ![Lucy\_Alfrir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lucy_alfrir/32/382506_2.png) [@Lucy\_Alfrir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lucy_Alfrir)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2026, 12:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pvp-ess-deadspace-grid-no-meaningful-counterplay-for-defenders/516829/151 "2026-10-20T12:20:29Z")
So we need a deployable you can anchor on your ESS grid which makes defender’s ships get a 2x speed bonus? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Pasta\_Patriarch](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_pasta_patriarch/32/496081_2.png) [@The\_Pasta\_Patriarch](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Pasta_Patriarch)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2026, 12:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pvp-ess-deadspace-grid-no-meaningful-counterplay-for-defenders/516829/152 "2026-10-20T12:20:46Z")
So to be clear you think it’s unfair that to catch someone you need to be faster than them? ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2026, 12:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pvp-ess-deadspace-grid-no-meaningful-counterplay-for-defenders/516829/153 "2026-10-20T12:26:22Z")
I never spoke of ‘fairness’. I think it is bad that the game allows fast ships to be practically safe by burning off endlessly on the ESS grid, and that the game would encourage more interaction and skillfull play by limiting the ESS grid to only a certain range around the warp-in point. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Pasta\_Patriarch](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_pasta_patriarch/32/496081_2.png) [@The\_Pasta\_Patriarch](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Pasta_Patriarch)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2026, 12:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pvp-ess-deadspace-grid-no-meaningful-counterplay-for-defenders/516829/154 "2026-10-20T12:30:55Z")
Why is it bad for a faster ship to be required to catch another ship? What is preventing you doing that? ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2026, 12:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pvp-ess-deadspace-grid-no-meaningful-counterplay-for-defenders/516829/155 "2026-10-20T12:32:18Z")
Do I understand correctly that you feel entitled to be safe in hostile space, as long as your ship is fast? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Pasta\_Patriarch](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_pasta_patriarch/32/496081_2.png) [@The\_Pasta\_Patriarch](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Pasta_Patriarch)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2026, 12:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pvp-ess-deadspace-grid-no-meaningful-counterplay-for-defenders/516829/156 "2026-10-20T12:36:19Z")
In most contexts a marauder doesn’t catch an interceptor, so I’d say expecting you to be in a ship faster than me is an entirely reasonable requirement? It’s like asking me if I feel entitled to be immortal if you choose to fit a ship with 0 dps in a 1v1. If you intentionally brought a ship that can’t deal with me, I’d definitely feel entitled to not being dealt with. ---
**Author:** ![Lucy\_Alfrir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lucy_alfrir/32/382506_2.png) [@Lucy\_Alfrir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lucy_Alfrir)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2026, 12:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pvp-ess-deadspace-grid-no-meaningful-counterplay-for-defenders/516829/157 "2026-10-20T12:38:18Z")
Are there any ships which can catch and hold, or kill a nano gang on an ESS? ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2026, 12:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pvp-ess-deadspace-grid-no-meaningful-counterplay-for-defenders/516829/158 "2026-10-20T12:39:05Z")
The Marauder could reship though, and a 0 dps ship could fit in a different way. I like how EVE has many interactions and counterplay options. Tell me, if I take the fastest ship I could think of and go to an ESS grid. What is the counterplay to catch me? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Pasta\_Patriarch](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_pasta_patriarch/32/496081_2.png) [@The\_Pasta\_Patriarch](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Pasta_Patriarch)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2026, 12:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pvp-ess-deadspace-grid-no-meaningful-counterplay-for-defenders/516829/159 "2026-10-20T12:46:24Z")
The interaction and counterplay option here, like fitting dps, or swapping ships. Is to be faster than your opponent, that’s the counterplay. If they are flying the fastest ship ever, it is absurdly expensive, can’t kill anything and doesn’t reflect the actual scenarios you encounter because those players aren’t fitting ships solely to go as fast as possible, they actually need to be able to kill something. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2026, 12:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pvp-ess-deadspace-grid-no-meaningful-counterplay-for-defenders/516829/160 "2026-10-20T12:48:43Z")
Even if your ship is significantly cheaper and a bit slower it’s still going to take tens of minutes to even catch up to you in this expensive fastest ship. Do you feel entitled to be safe all that time just because you are fast? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Pasta\_Patriarch](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_pasta_patriarch/32/496081_2.png) [@The\_Pasta\_Patriarch](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Pasta_Patriarch)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2026, 12:49pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pvp-ess-deadspace-grid-no-meaningful-counterplay-for-defenders/516829/161 "2026-10-20T12:49:51Z")
What ships do you have in mind btw? What specifically are you struggling to catch? ---
**Author:** ![Lucy\_Alfrir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lucy_alfrir/32/382506_2.png) [@Lucy\_Alfrir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lucy_Alfrir)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2026, 12:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pvp-ess-deadspace-grid-no-meaningful-counterplay-for-defenders/516829/162 "2026-10-20T12:52:18Z")
Have you read the thread? I think it’s quite clear what kind of ships/fits this is about. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2026, 12:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pvp-ess-deadspace-grid-no-meaningful-counterplay-for-defenders/516829/163 "2026-10-20T12:52:59Z")
Speed is just an arms race, if people could catch up the fleeing group would equip another overdrive or nanofiber next time. The problem I’m talking about is the ESS grid that creates this safe zone where speed is without a counter, not a particular ship. Kiting is fine, but burning for 5 minutes straight into safety is not. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Pasta\_Patriarch](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_pasta_patriarch/32/496081_2.png) [@The\_Pasta\_Patriarch](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Pasta_Patriarch)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2026, 1:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pvp-ess-deadspace-grid-no-meaningful-counterplay-for-defenders/516829/164 "2026-10-20T13:00:02Z")
Instead of actually engaging with concrete examples you’re instead trying to balance around hypotheticals. What ships are players bringing to an ess that you struggle to deal with, and what are you currently using to attempt to deal with them? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pvp-ess-deadspace-grid-no-meaningful-counterplay-for-defenders/516829.md?page=7) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pvp-ess-deadspace-grid-no-meaningful-counterplay-for-defenders/516829.md?page=9)