# \[PvP\] ESS Deadspace Grid: No Meaningful Counterplay for Defenders **URL:** \ **Category:** Assembly Hall\ **Tags:** null-sec, pvp\ **Created:** [August 21, 2026, 12:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pvp-ess-deadspace-grid-no-meaningful-counterplay-for-defenders/516829 "2026-08-21T12:46:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2026, 1:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pvp-ess-deadspace-grid-no-meaningful-counterplay-for-defenders/516829/165 "2026-10-20T13:03:31Z")
It’s the game mechanic design I’m having a problem with, not a particular fit. But if you wish to talk fits, take a combat-capable nano gang of your choice and tell me what kind of equally capable gang could take them on while flying 2km/s faster in order to catch up? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Pasta\_Patriarch](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_pasta_patriarch/32/496081_2.png) [@The\_Pasta\_Patriarch](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Pasta_Patriarch)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2026, 1:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pvp-ess-deadspace-grid-no-meaningful-counterplay-for-defenders/516829/166 "2026-10-20T13:07:00Z")
The issue with that is you’re applying a “fix” to a game mechanic you aren’t actually engaging with, based on a premise you’ve established 0 logical basis for. Nobody cares about your arbitrary standards for game design, we are both players, let’s talk about the actual game. If there’s no specific ships nano gangs actually use that you can think of that you genuinely can’t catch, then none of your suggestions have any merit, because they aren’t addressing an issue actually occurring in the game. What ships are you fighting on the ess, that you can’t catch? When you log in to pvp another player in this video game, what ship/ships are they bringing to the ess that you struggle with? ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2026, 1:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pvp-ess-deadspace-grid-no-meaningful-counterplay-for-defenders/516829/167 "2026-10-20T13:14:25Z")
Are you just going to pretend ships exists which can both: - easily catch up to a nanogang **by flying far faster** - and also fight them And _you_ are talking about the ‘actual game’? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Pasta\_Patriarch](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_pasta_patriarch/32/496081_2.png) [@The\_Pasta\_Patriarch](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Pasta_Patriarch)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2026, 1:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pvp-ess-deadspace-grid-no-meaningful-counterplay-for-defenders/516829/168 "2026-10-20T13:15:07Z")
Okay, so you can’t think of any? ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2026, 1:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pvp-ess-deadspace-grid-no-meaningful-counterplay-for-defenders/516829/169 "2026-10-20T13:16:22Z")
I thought you were against ‘hypotheticals’, but I’d love to hear your thoughts on this. Which ship do you have in mind? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Pasta\_Patriarch](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_pasta_patriarch/32/496081_2.png) [@The\_Pasta\_Patriarch](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Pasta_Patriarch)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2026, 1:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pvp-ess-deadspace-grid-no-meaningful-counterplay-for-defenders/516829/170 "2026-10-20T13:17:36Z")
I’m asking you, what ships on the ess grid do you struggle with? I’ve asked you several times now. I can’t answer that question for you. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2026, 1:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pvp-ess-deadspace-grid-no-meaningful-counterplay-for-defenders/516829/171 "2026-10-20T13:22:02Z")
You’re going in circles. It’s not a specific ship, it’s the design of the grid I have issues with. You pretend ships exist which could both **outrun** a nanogang to catch up and also **fight** them. And even if such a hypothetical ship existed it still would take you an unnecessarily boring long time to catch up if the nanogang has a head start. And in the hypothetical situation your hypothetical ship did catch up and pose a threat they would see it coming long in advance and could simply warp off. I think this safe zone without counter created by the ESS is a problematic design. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Pasta\_Patriarch](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_pasta_patriarch/32/496081_2.png) [@The\_Pasta\_Patriarch](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Pasta_Patriarch)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2026, 1:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pvp-ess-deadspace-grid-no-meaningful-counterplay-for-defenders/516829/172 "2026-10-20T13:30:15Z")
Okay, so to be clear, in your experience as a player you’ve encountered no ships you’ve struggled to catch? ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2026, 1:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pvp-ess-deadspace-grid-no-meaningful-counterplay-for-defenders/516829/173 "2026-10-20T13:41:49Z")
I’ve encountered plenty of ships I had trouble catching up in all sorts of situations depending on my fit and theirs, such is EVE’s gameplay. But that is not what this is about. It’s not about whether I was flying the counter, but whether a counter even _exists_. Here I just want to hear your _hypothetical_ counter that apparently can outrun and kill people who are burning away on the ESS grid, are 800km away and keep burning. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Pasta\_Patriarch](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_pasta_patriarch/32/496081_2.png) [@The\_Pasta\_Patriarch](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Pasta_Patriarch)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2026, 1:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pvp-ess-deadspace-grid-no-meaningful-counterplay-for-defenders/516829/174 "2026-10-20T13:44:16Z")
This is a thread about meaningful counterplay to nano gangs burning off from the ess. Examples were already provided. Nobody cares about your personal design philosophy. I was asking you because your personal experiences as a player would matter regarding this, but you’ve either had none or refused to answer. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2026, 1:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pvp-ess-deadspace-grid-no-meaningful-counterplay-for-defenders/516829/175 "2026-10-20T13:45:56Z")
I’ve explained there is no meaningful counter to the ability of the deadspace ESS grid to give players safety in hostile space. You say there is a counter, but refuse to give an example. The onus is on you. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Pasta\_Patriarch](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_pasta_patriarch/32/496081_2.png) [@The\_Pasta\_Patriarch](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Pasta_Patriarch)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2026, 1:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pvp-ess-deadspace-grid-no-meaningful-counterplay-for-defenders/516829/176 "2026-10-20T13:46:33Z")
If you scroll up dagvald and drake already provided examples. I’ve asking you what ships you’ve encountered on the ess where the already stated counters wouldn’t already apply. And if so why not ---
**Author:** ![Kane\_Carnifex](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kane_carnifex/32/474576_2.png) [@Kane\_Carnifex](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kane_Carnifex)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2026, 9:50pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pvp-ess-deadspace-grid-no-meaningful-counterplay-for-defenders/516829/177 "2026-10-20T21:50:59Z")
> [@The\_Pasta\_Patriarch](#): > > If you scroll up dagvald and drake already provided examples. Enemy is aligned to XYZ Defender do XYZ to get in Range What again prevents the aligned enemy to hit warp once you see XYZ happening? If you see the MJD spool, which is 6 seconds long, with an animation around the ship… you already hitting warp. Even if you have an 300km PRE lock with 150km Point, the bootleneck will be the MJD animation. ---
**Author:** ![Gleb\_Koskov](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gleb_koskov/32/374138_2.png) [@Gleb\_Koskov](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gleb_Koskov)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2026, 11:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pvp-ess-deadspace-grid-no-meaningful-counterplay-for-defenders/516829/178 "2026-10-21T11:11:39Z")
Not savy in ESS mechanics, but use a missile boat? A well fit caracal can reach hundreds of kms. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2026, 1:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pvp-ess-deadspace-grid-no-meaningful-counterplay-for-defenders/516829/179 "2026-10-21T13:23:39Z")
After reading the whole topic again, I fail to see the “problem”. And I have to confess, contrary to my initial statement, I don’t see much changes needed any more. React quickly by teaching the locals how PvP works. If you let them into the ESS and let them kite for 5 entire minutes, thats entirely your fault. If they make a run for it, there are long-range ships (Nagas, Oracles, Tengus) that can easily hit over 250km and with 2-3 Booshers you can insta-jump 300km after them. That gives you up to 600km projection range with just a handful of ships required. Or send 2 Carriers, Jump 2x250km after them (they can jump each other) and send Fighters after them wich are _way_ faster than even a Nanogang. And since Nanogangs can’t tank very well, you will force them to warp off. Fine thing, bubble the ESS grid and they don’t have that chance again. Now you can try to catch them with combatprobes. Which in 95% won’t work anyway, since they are still uncatchable unless they make some bad mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Graham\_Sloaan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/graham_sloaan/32/513274_2.png) [@Graham\_Sloaan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Graham_Sloaan)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2026, 8:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pvp-ess-deadspace-grid-no-meaningful-counterplay-for-defenders/516829/180 "2026-10-22T20:46:07Z")
I think there’s a middle ground here. There absolutely is counterplay. Booshes, pre-placed dictors/hictors, etc. I also don’t think there should be a space in any system of nullsec which is effectively ‘safe’ that _anyone_ can go to if they’re not feeling the combat. I think a lot of issues with the grid could be solved by simply having a combat timer applied if you warp onto the site. That way sure you can burn off into the distance as a nanoganger, but you can’t burn off and burn down to filament out. Ultimately you can’t force a fight if one side in EVE doesn’t want it - but I think this would go some way to resolving a lot of the issues without funadmentally changing the play possible on the ESS grid. It lets people who go there as a bit of respite to burn away do that and the people who want to chase, chase - without it being a parking spot for filament timers or whatever to burn down. You probably force more organic content that way since in the process of burning to and fro from tac to tac you could get probed, but you also could pick off the probers and keep those running gun battles that people tend to enjoy from this style of fighting. Saying there’s no counterplay though, is utterly WILD. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Pasta\_Patriarch](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/the_pasta_patriarch/32/496081_2.png) [@The\_Pasta\_Patriarch](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/The_Pasta_Patriarch)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2026, 12:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pvp-ess-deadspace-grid-no-meaningful-counterplay-for-defenders/516829/181 "2026-10-24T12:57:06Z")
“There is no counterplay to players being on the ess grid” “Do xyz” “But that makes them leave the ESS grid” So Kane, logically if your issue is players are on the ess grid, and players give you solutions, that at worst, result in them warping off the ess grid, that is by definition counterplay. Do you accept that? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/pvp-ess-deadspace-grid-no-meaningful-counterplay-for-defenders/516829.md?page=8)