# Quantum cores make stations unaffordable for Joe/anne Sixpack, average EVE player **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [April 8, 2021, 5:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/quantum-cores-make-stations-unaffordable-for-joe-anne-sixpack-average-eve-player/304628 "2021-04-08T05:22:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Goe\_Rilla](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/goe_rilla/32/360069_2.png) [@Goe\_Rilla](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Goe_Rilla)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2021, 2:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/quantum-cores-make-stations-unaffordable-for-joe-anne-sixpack-average-eve-player/304628/203 "2021-04-09T14:27:53Z")
Reading this thread while taking a dump. Just fyi. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2021, 2:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/quantum-cores-make-stations-unaffordable-for-joe-anne-sixpack-average-eve-player/304628/204 "2021-04-09T14:34:51Z")
> [@D\_Kins\_Cider](#): > > The rate at which structures were going up was silly, Source ? Yeah, none so far. ---
**Author:** ![Edmorte\_Fehrnah](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/edmorte_fehrnah/32/251868_2.png) [@Edmorte\_Fehrnah](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Edmorte_Fehrnah)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2021, 2:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/quantum-cores-make-stations-unaffordable-for-joe-anne-sixpack-average-eve-player/304628/205 "2021-04-09T14:48:27Z")
Just posting to disagree with the title, it’s not even needed to read the post. This solo vertical EVE needs to go. L4’s are solo, POS should not be. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2021, 2:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/quantum-cores-make-stations-unaffordable-for-joe-anne-sixpack-average-eve-player/304628/206 "2021-04-09T14:51:41Z")
[https://www.adam4eve.eu/stats\_structures.php](https://www.adam4eve.eu/stats_structures.php) Here are stats for the citadels. If anyone wants, he can see them amounts. Still high sec have the most of structures. Also the amount of structures was getting lower before the cores. The abandoned status was working. Amount of “targets” that was unanchored before anyone could destroy them in high sec is staggering. Great success of content removal. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2021, 3:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/quantum-cores-make-stations-unaffordable-for-joe-anne-sixpack-average-eve-player/304628/207 "2021-04-09T15:39:39Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > Great success of content removal. Content? I’d call it content when people fight for the structures, and with quantum cores we have _increased_ chances of that happening. Hundreds of structures that nobody has time to destroy isn’t what I call ‘content’. > [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > The abandoned status was working. Now _THAT_ was content! I’ve spent a week shooting down and looting structures in an incredibly well organised corp fleet with all types of roles; bashers, looters, haulers, defenders and suicide gankers, ship sitters and whatnot. I never killed that many structures per day as then and made quite a lot of ISK on a couple alpha characters. That it was incredibly fun. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Black\_Pedro](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/black_pedro/32/257285_2.png) [@Black\_Pedro](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Black_Pedro)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2021, 3:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/quantum-cores-make-stations-unaffordable-for-joe-anne-sixpack-average-eve-player/304628/208 "2021-04-09T15:45:24Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > Here are stats for the citadels. If anyone wants, he can see them amounts. Still high sec have the most of structures. > > Also the amount of structures was getting lower before the cores. The abandoned status was working. > > Amount of “targets” that was unanchored before anyone could destroy them in high sec is staggering. > > Great success of content removal. To be fair, those are only the public structures. Most Upwell structures outside of highsec are not public. But the point is made, there are still plenty of highsec Upwell structures out there, a few in every system. That is much healthier than the dozens of abandoned ones just sitting there because it was too tedious and unrewarding to explode them. CCP has done well in the last year to get structures to a better place, and anecdotally it does seem to me that people are fighting over them (both attacking and defending) more. Not everyone needs to own a structure. This idea that Joe Sixpack can to do everything solo is toxic to an MMO trying to simulate a life-like economy. People need to be able to have niches and to trade with one another for goods and services. Making space for a ‘landlord’ class who rent out stations is a goal completely in-line with the idea of Eve. Honestly, I think there still is more work needed to be done to create a viable market for selling station services, but we are way, way closer to that after of a year-and-a-half of @CCP_Rattati and his friends on the Ecosystem team making changes to structures. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2021, 3:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/quantum-cores-make-stations-unaffordable-for-joe-anne-sixpack-average-eve-player/304628/209 "2021-04-09T15:58:19Z")
> [@D\_Kins\_Cider](#): > > I am sure that if CCP added a requirement to fly a Titan that doubled the cost and made them an even BIGGER target than they already were with a 100% guranteed multi-billion isk drop, with no increased utility at all, that the big nullsec blocs would be up in arms. That’d NEVER get up, not in a million years. > [@D\_Kins\_Cider](#): > > Had they said “Here, to keep mining ANYTHING with a Rorq, you have to install a Rorqual Core worth 1b isk, exclusively NPC seeded and bought back at 100% of sale price by the same NPCs, AND it’s a 100% drop if a rorq pops, so rorq hunters, go nuts”, then it’d be equal. And that’s before we consider the fact that a Rorq is at least mobile. Do you really not realize that adding incentives for killing ships wouldn’t make players any more interested in killing those ships, because that interest is already at 100%, and can’t possibly be any higher? You’re making it sound like people are passing over ship kills today because the drop rate is only 50%, which they wouldn’t do if it was 100%. That is an _absolutely asinine_ claim. ---
**Author:** ![Anthony\_FatTony\_Amico](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anthony_fattony_amico/32/391106_2.png) [@Anthony\_FatTony\_Amico](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anthony_FatTony_Amico)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2021, 3:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/quantum-cores-make-stations-unaffordable-for-joe-anne-sixpack-average-eve-player/304628/210 "2021-04-09T15:58:47Z")
I think cores are a great idea. Stations should be a group ownership thing not a solo thing. Station defense is also quite fun. Lets go on this line of thinking that if you can afford a station AND fuel it. I think you have the means to buy a 1 time purchase reusable core. Too hard to ask from most people I guess? ---
**Author:** ![Solonius\_Rex](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solonius_rex/32/388172_2.png) [@Solonius\_Rex](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solonius_Rex)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2021, 4:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/quantum-cores-make-stations-unaffordable-for-joe-anne-sixpack-average-eve-player/304628/211 "2021-04-09T16:08:14Z")
> [@D\_Kins\_Cider](#): > > It’s basically impossible to defend a highsec structure. All the cards are in the hands of the attackers. That doesnt even make sense. Youre ignoring the fact that the citadel itself can have defenses. Youre ignoring the fact that you can, as the defender, bring in as many allies as you wish, whenever you wish, for no cost. Youre ignoring the fact that the timer is whatever you set it as, and therefore you have full control of when you will fight. What “Cards” are in the hands of attackers? > [@D\_Kins\_Cider](#): > > But whatever - this is having an interesting side-effect - with fewer and fewer player-owned structures, there’s fewer and fewer places that you can clone-swap and bypass the cloning timer. This is causing the game to be less playable - I’ve seen my own gameplay change (less gameplay), as well as that of corp/alliance and other players I interact with regularly. It used to be like this before citadels existed, and we managed, and we didnt see it as a problem back then. > [@D\_Kins\_Cider](#): > > Then why did they put them in the reach of individual players then? Any “player” can purchase 1000s of dollars worth of plex and buy anything they want, whether it be a titan or a structure. Just because I can go out and buy a titan, doesnt mean its meant to be owned and operated by a single player. > [@D\_Kins\_Cider](#): > > Irrespective of that, it’s not just individuals losing out. Corps of 50+ players (who built their expensive structures from blueprints by grinding the mining/PI/manufacturing required) are losing their structures because CCP chose to make structure kills a guaranteed loot event. This has never changed. EVE has always been about being able to defend your assets. When Citadels first came out, the catchphrase was “Build your dreams, wreck theirs”. The fact that CCP has now made a better incentive to wreck their dreams, has never changed the fact that this was always an integral part of the game. Even before the cores, we used to have people come in here and complain about how Citadels were being wardecced and how they couldnt defend it. Those people were making the same arguments that you are, now. > [@This is Abuse, and ccp has made eve pay to win. Players should be outraged and know about these issues](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/this-is-abuse-and-ccp-has-made-eve-pay-to-win-players-should-be-outraged-and-know-about-these-issues/154073): > > I am a long standing player of eve. I started my adventure in eve back in 2003. I have been parts of many alliances in eve, most in many different coalitions. I started an alt account a few weeks back. My objective this time around was not to get sucked into nullsec space politics. I formed a high sec alliance a few months ago, with the objective of healing eve, and creating a good, supportive environment for new players, something like a mix between cva and eve-uni in high sec. Mean while, I… > [@D\_Kins\_Cider](#): > > IMHO, what’s needed is either a new structure that can do multiple things (jack of all trades but master of none) or to grant the Citadels the ability to do all things (potentially at the same bonuses/efficiencies as the smaller specialised structures - an Azbel at Athanor/Raitaru levels, a Fortizar at Azbel/Tatara levels). Make it more expensive to start with, no worries - it’s more useful after all. This would reduce the prevalence of smaller structures (three structures could easily be condensed into one) but not cut back other capabilities in the game (the lack of player-owned structures in highsec is really impacting on clone usage, I am sure). I thought any citadels can fit the service modules like the reprocessing facitlities? In which case, we already have citadels that are “Jack of all trades but masters of none”. The Raitaru/athanors are the Masters of reprocessing etc, thats why people use them. And yet you want a citadel that does all of these things, at the same rate as the “masters” of each role, for no apparent reason. > [@D\_Kins\_Cider](#): > > Alternatively, give NPC stations better capabilities (the clone jump delay is stupid anyway, just get rid of it already, make the infomorph skills that reduce the delay do something else so that the SP isn’t wasted, or just remove it and hand the SP back to be used elsewhere), and make the NPC stations more varied in their capabilities and bonuses). That’ll reduce the number of player-owned structures too. NPC stations already are varied and provide different services. The problem with giving them bonuses is that they were never designed to have bonuses, even back when Control Towers were a thing. The whole point of setting up your own control tower/station is that you get better bonuses from the NPC stations, but at larger risk of losing it. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2021, 4:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/quantum-cores-make-stations-unaffordable-for-joe-anne-sixpack-average-eve-player/304628/212 "2021-04-09T16:11:32Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > I’d call it content when people fight for the structures, and with quantum cores we have _increased_ chances of that happening. You forget that the structures that have cores will be those belonging to megacorps that can and will be defended. And those will not be attacked. Because you will be losing the battle as attacker. And there are people with such very “good standings” that they will make you not even consider attacking them. > [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > Hundreds of structures that nobody has time to destroy isn’t what I call ‘content’. It will be hundreds of structures that nobody will be willing to attack. Something akin to highsec blue donut. It was change that made everything harder for everyone. Maybe only excluding those fat cats. What change will you then propose? ---
**Author:** ![Solonius\_Rex](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solonius_rex/32/388172_2.png) [@Solonius\_Rex](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solonius_Rex)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2021, 4:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/quantum-cores-make-stations-unaffordable-for-joe-anne-sixpack-average-eve-player/304628/213 "2021-04-09T16:17:51Z")
> [@D\_Kins\_Cider](#): > > But this wasn’t a boundary adjustment. This was like giving the kids a sieve to play with in the sandbox, and then replacing the sand overnight with pebbles, then giving other kids a bat to wack the kids who couldn’t couldn’t run the pebbles through the sieves any more, and then blaming the sieve kids for the problem. Well, no, the other kids always had bats, and they replaced a single peice of sand with a pebble. The Core is only an initial cost, and its not an upkeep. The problem you keep glossing over and never really want to address, is that the requirement for people to be able to defend their citadel has always existed and has always been a risk. The fact that CCP increased the incentive to do so, is only an argument that supports the fact that you have a bigger target on your back. Thats it. None of the other arguments are valid. > [@D\_Kins\_Cider](#): > > Had they said “Here, to keep mining ANYTHING with a Rorq, you have to install a Rorqual Core worth 1b isk, exclusively NPC seeded and bought back at 100% of sale price by the same NPCs, AND it’s a 100% drop if a rorq pops, so rorq hunters, go nuts”, then it’d be equal. And that’s before we consider the fact that a Rorq is at least mobile. This was essentially what they did with the introduction of the excavator drones, though. Each drone was 1 billion isk, gaurunteed drop if they are deployed and the rorq is destroyed, etc etc. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2021, 4:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/quantum-cores-make-stations-unaffordable-for-joe-anne-sixpack-average-eve-player/304628/214 "2021-04-09T16:32:52Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > It will be hundreds of structures that nobody will be willing to attack. > > Something akin to highsec blue donut. > > It was change that made everything harder for everyone. Maybe only excluding those fat cats. > > What change will you then propose? None, no changes. Amount of structures seems to be good now. No more abandoned structures littering space and no more spammed structures ‘because planting them is easier than getting rid of them’. The abandoned citadel update and quantum core update did their work well. The only extra structure update I’d like to see is the addition of a smaller structure to replace POSes that can allow solo players or small nomadic groups to have a place to live out from temporarily. ---
**Author:** ![Solonius\_Rex](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solonius_rex/32/388172_2.png) [@Solonius\_Rex](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solonius_Rex)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2021, 4:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/quantum-cores-make-stations-unaffordable-for-joe-anne-sixpack-average-eve-player/304628/215 "2021-04-09T16:39:40Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > You forget that the structures that have cores will be those belonging to megacorps that can and will be defended. And those will not be attacked. Because you will be losing the battle as attacker. And there are people with such very “good standings” that they will make you not even consider attacking them. This sort of thing can occur irrespective of whether quantum cores exist or not. It is trivial for larger groups to go around wardeccing and destroying every citadel and putting their own up. Omega and Friends Medialabs did this with POCOs a while back. But even they only stuck around the major hubs, because they understand that it isnt worth it to go around every single system in hisec and owning every single POCO. The same is true with Citadels. For large groups, 800 million isnt a lot of ISK. Its not worth taking something down, getting 800 million isk, then spending another 1.1 billion isk putting up a citadel, in a remote region where you only see 5, 6 people in local at any one day. > [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > It will be hundreds of structures that nobody will be willing to attack. > > Something akin to highsec blue donut. > > It was change that made everything harder for everyone. Maybe only excluding those fat cats. > > What change will you then propose? And yet, in the remote regions, there are plenty of individual corps that ive never heard of, owning tons and tons of citadels. Nobody is in any rush to destroy them. The only people who think 800 million is enough isk to want to destroy them, are smaller groups, that can be fended off. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2021, 4:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/quantum-cores-make-stations-unaffordable-for-joe-anne-sixpack-average-eve-player/304628/216 "2021-04-09T16:45:28Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > None, no changes. You missed the point, I wrote about the situation when nobody will attack anything. Its what I mean by removal of content, by creation of highsec blue donut. It will be BORING. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2021, 4:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/quantum-cores-make-stations-unaffordable-for-joe-anne-sixpack-average-eve-player/304628/217 "2021-04-09T16:45:54Z")
> [@Nana\_Skalski](#): > > You missed the point, I wrote about the situation when nobody will attack anything. Its what I mean by removal of content, by creation of highsec blue donut. It will be BORING. No, I completely got your point already and I don’t agree. No changes. ---
**Author:** ![Rocket\_Hellfire](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rocket_hellfire/32/396905_2.png) [@Rocket\_Hellfire](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rocket_Hellfire)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2021, 4:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/quantum-cores-make-stations-unaffordable-for-joe-anne-sixpack-average-eve-player/304628/218 "2021-04-09T16:51:15Z")
I could afford anything but a Keepstar on my own and that’s just out of my own pocket… Well, no I could do a KS but I’d be flat broke after. In fact I could drop multiple of anything but a KS, including cores. And I’m still on the low end of wallet sizes. Keepstars, Sotiyos and Tataras shouldn’t be affordable for solo players or small groups, so they aren’t affordable for most individuals or small groups. Just because YOU can’t afford it doesn’t mean others can’t. They are meant to be team structures that require a team to build and maintain. But… ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2021, 4:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/quantum-cores-make-stations-unaffordable-for-joe-anne-sixpack-average-eve-player/304628/219 "2021-04-09T16:52:39Z")
I suppose you can all just do lvl 4 missions instead of bashing structures now. Maybe it is more entertaining for you. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2021, 4:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/quantum-cores-make-stations-unaffordable-for-joe-anne-sixpack-average-eve-player/304628/220 "2021-04-09T16:56:16Z")
I’m not sure what you’re aiming at. Structure bashes without stakes are boring. Quantum cores added stakes to a structure fight, so defenders have a reason to defend the station when they drop one (rather than having the enemy deal with multiple timers and then drop another 10 structures to make them waste even more time). And attackers also have a reason to attack the station, because, well, loot. Without quantum cores, people coud buy 10 of the cheapest structure, plant them everywhere and ‘defend’ their structures with time. It just takes a whole lot of time to destroy them all. Now, unless defenders increase the stakes with a core, placing an uncored station is just as easily destroyed as it is anchored, decreasing the amount of endless structure bashes just to get rid of them. Bashing a lot of structures = boring. Bashing a few structures with stakes = fun. Get it? ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2021, 4:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/quantum-cores-make-stations-unaffordable-for-joe-anne-sixpack-average-eve-player/304628/221 "2021-04-09T16:58:41Z")
> [@Gerard\_Amatin](#): > > Bashing structures = boring. > Bashing structures for loot = fun. You mean you will bash your own then? Autobashing for content, that may be something like a new trend.. ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2021, 4:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/quantum-cores-make-stations-unaffordable-for-joe-anne-sixpack-average-eve-player/304628/222 "2021-04-09T16:59:54Z")
Sorry, I edited while you wrote that response. Also it doesn’t make sense? Why should I bash my own structures? I don’t get any value out of that, rather, I’d _lose_ value. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/quantum-cores-make-stations-unaffordable-for-joe-anne-sixpack-average-eve-player/304628.md?page=10) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/quantum-cores-make-stations-unaffordable-for-joe-anne-sixpack-average-eve-player/304628.md?page=12)