# Quantum Cores - Updates begin 8 September **URL:** \ **Category:** Dev Blogs\ **Tags:** feedback, official, devblog\ **Created:** [September 1, 2020, 3:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/quantum-cores-updates-begin-8-september/264126 "2020-09-01T15:55:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 45
**Author:** ![KAELA\_MENSHA](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kaela_mensha/32/224515_2.png) [@KAELA\_MENSHA](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/KAELA_MENSHA)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2020, 4:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/quantum-cores-updates-begin-8-september/264126/904 "2020-09-02T16:16:00Z")
You could be right, they seem to remove more playable content, than they generate. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2020, 4:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/quantum-cores-updates-begin-8-september/264126/905 "2020-09-02T16:23:00Z")
> [@Flanidia](#): > > Not if the tax is on members of the alliance : ) You seem to completely misunderstand: If the tax is on members of the alliance, let’s say the break-even point is 50 people in an alliance. At that point, Goonswarm Federation, at 28,000 people, becomes **560 different alliances that all still coordinate via the same out of game systems we use now**. We adapt better. We take absolutely as much advantage of the system as we can. > [@Dracvlad](#): > > So you can define group to meet your needs. Nope, I already said: Groups independently responding to the same challenges. Switzerland responds to challenges with pretty direct assistance from the rest of the world. Like, ‘hey, look, there’s a World War. Should we build a massive number of tanks?’ ‘Nope, we’re neutral, and everyone’s using us to hide their money’. > [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > If a bigger corp has an increase in cost HIGHER after the change than a smaller one, then a bigger corp benefits LESS from the change than a smaller one. Ok, lemme splain this in more concrete terms so maybe you get it: Group A is 10 guys. They all do their own thing, on their own. Each one makes $2/day. They pay $1/day for gas (individually). Group A pays a total of $10/day for gas. This gives them $10/day disposable income. Group B is 50 guys. They work together, and car pool. Because they’re working cooperatively, each one makes $2.50/day. They car pool, so they wind up paying $0.80/day for fuel, each. Group B pays a total of $40/day for gas. They have $85/day disposable income. Group B has 8.5x the discretionary resources of Group A, with whom they might be fighting. When the price of fuel goes up to 110% of what it was, Group A now pays $11/day, and Group B pays $44/day. Group B pays more, and the increase is directly tied to how many people they have. Group A now has $9/day disposable income, and Group B has $81/day disposable income. Group B now has 9x the discretionary resources of Group A. Group B is paying more, but their larger, more organized efforts mean that their _relative_ position has improved over Group A. They have benefited. This is directly because the larger group allows them to minimize overall costs and maximize economic returns. > [@Zhalyd\_Lyehin](#): > > You can’t get a structure online in NPC delve either way. Not while we’re paying attention at least. But that’s not because of the lack of a limit on structures, it’s because we have people whose job is specifically ‘sweep NPC delve for new structures, multiple times a day’. ---
**Author:** ![Flanidia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/flanidia/32/264223_2.png) [@Flanidia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Flanidia)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2020, 4:24pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/quantum-cores-updates-begin-8-september/264126/906 "2020-09-02T16:24:58Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > At that point, Goonswarm Federation, at 28,000 people, becomes **560 different alliances that all still coordinate via the same out of game systems we use now**. And becoming 560 alliances raises your cost…it’s harder. As I asserted at the top, you are unwilling to reconsider your assertion. Thanks for providing quite a bit of evidence ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2020, 4:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/quantum-cores-updates-begin-8-september/264126/907 "2020-09-02T16:25:11Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Ok, lemme splain this in more concrete terms so maybe you get it: No, you don’t even read what I wrote and make up nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Darkholis\_Virpio](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darkholis_virpio/32/289703_2.png) [@Darkholis\_Virpio](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Darkholis_Virpio)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2020, 4:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/quantum-cores-updates-begin-8-september/264126/908 "2020-09-02T16:26:19Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > If you can come up with a situation where it’s not true, where I can’t immediately show just how the larger group _still_ does better, I will definitely accept it. > > But you can’t. Because in _all of human history_ , it hasn’t happened. Bold statement on your end but here’s a very simple example, very reminiscent of the current world situation : Local farming vs industrial farms. Fresh/local products vs mass produced/delocalized. I won’t go into all the ethics about animal welfare, environemental impacts and the likes, but you should get the overall picture. Clearly, the small groups have a clear advantage here. Another good example are small scale military operations. Let’s say you want a hot target dead without the locals noticing. You could send a whole group to do a squad’s job… ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2020, 4:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/quantum-cores-updates-begin-8-september/264126/909 "2020-09-02T16:26:29Z")
> [@Durma\_Tosishiro](#): > > Try to live off Npc stations in Npc null 😉 it is not that pleasant believe me. By the way the game should be a sandbox, they promote it like so. But if you screw the small guys that is not really a sandbox anymore IMO… Possible. But the cost of Quantum Cores and the taxes of npc null don’t necessarily have to be set in stone. As a concept it’s pretty encouraging. But if it’s too difficult the numbers can be adjusted. And vice versa. Sandbox or not isn’t really related to this at all. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2020, 4:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/quantum-cores-updates-begin-8-september/264126/910 "2020-09-02T16:28:14Z")
> [@Flanidia](#): > > And becoming 560 alliances raises your cost…it’s harder. It raises our need for organization, but we’re already set up for it. Breaking up into smaller alliances was kinda the fallback plan from 2015-16. > [@Darkholis\_Virpio](#): > > Local farming vs industrial farms. Fresh/local products vs mass produced/delocalized. Industrial farms produce more, with less immediate manpower. But they do require larger organizations (manufacturing, fuel, distribution, etc). Local farming tends to be more environmentally friendly, and requires more individual labor per person, but support fewer people. ---
**Author:** ![KAELA\_MENSHA](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kaela_mensha/32/224515_2.png) [@KAELA\_MENSHA](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/KAELA_MENSHA)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2020, 4:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/quantum-cores-updates-begin-8-september/264126/911 "2020-09-02T16:35:59Z")
Industrial food production, soil erosion, high transport cost. harmful chemical use, and all your eggs in one basket. individual food production fresher food, healther food, lower transport costs. food shortage due to unforseen mishap less likely. ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2020, 4:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/quantum-cores-updates-begin-8-september/264126/912 "2020-09-02T16:39:05Z")
> [@Durma\_Tosishiro](#): > > Try to live off Npc stations in Npc null 😉 it is not that pleasant believe me. By the way the game should be a sandbox, they promote it like so. But if you screw the small guys that is not really a sandbox anymore IMO… Possible. But the cost of Quantum Cores and the taxes of npc null don’t necessarily have to be set in stone. As a concept it’s pretty encouraging. But if it’s too difficult the numbers can be adjusted. And vice versa. Sandbox or not isn’t really related to this at all. > [@Redeem\_Incarce](#): > > what is the issue with small corps owning structures? that’s like saying small businesses in RL is shop spam? The forsaken fortress update removed most of the spam/junk structures in HS and people who have them now are paying hundreds of millions per month to keep them running. Lack of meaning and no skin in the game. There are corps out there that think so little of structures that they put them up, and when they are attacked, don’t even try to defend them. This is boring and suggests structures are too trivial. Plus, this mechanic gives attackers a greater financial incentove to attack structures. Which was needed. > [@Redeem\_Incarce](#): > > You cant do indy profitably out of NPC stations, and I don’t see why small corps in HS (where they are supposed to have some measure of protection and is where most corps start to grow) cant have structures. They lose out on some efficiency being in HS anyway, so don’t see why they should be forced to NPC stations to make a loss, or have to pay taxes to larger corps. This is just entitled whining at this point. I’ve already explained it to you. HTFU or GTFO. > [@Redeem\_Incarce](#): > > Basically it kills wars for the small groups that try to use them. Yeah that was already killed off. Nothing to lose here. There is literally no small wardec corp here complaining about these changes. Please find one. > [@Redeem\_Incarce](#): > > I don’t do indy and don’t really have many assets in citadels, so really this change isn’t something that will significantly disrupt my gameplay There it is again. Funny you claim to know that npc stations are not profitable yet you don’t do industry or use citadels. Hmmmm Well i DO industry and i DO have assets in citadels. And if they get attacked i may just have to lend a hand to defend them. (life being breathed in to game) > [@Redeem\_Incarce](#): > > Alot of these players dont want to be in a bigger alliance and just try and build something themselves. That’s sweet, but it’s not minecraft. It’s a pvp sandbox. You are not entitled to play in a bubble. The game needs to have a competitive nature to work properly. ---
**Author:** ![Dunk\_Dinkle](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dunk_dinkle/32/319804_2.png) [@Dunk\_Dinkle](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dunk_Dinkle)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2020, 4:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/quantum-cores-updates-begin-8-september/264126/913 "2020-09-02T16:40:28Z")
This is burning down the house to kill the spider. ---
**Author:** ![Erebus\_TheChin\_Sundance](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/erebus_thechin_sundance/32/375165_2.png) [@Erebus\_TheChin\_Sundance](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Erebus_TheChin_Sundance)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2020, 4:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/quantum-cores-updates-begin-8-september/264126/914 "2020-09-02T16:41:47Z")
"_ **Required for existing structures** _ _The final phase for the rollout of Quantum Cores will see some basic services that all structures offer become disabled until a core is installed. Without a core installed, ship fitting, tethering, and ship/module repair services will be disabled. As soon as the core is installed into the structure, these services will become operational again. This phase is expected to go live in the December update."_ In regards to this part, as I have 11 long term research jobs running in various hs stations, eg battleship bpo’s with over 77 days for each me/te to max. Will they still be able to run these jobs without a core, or will those services also be disabled? 🤔 ---
**Author:** ![Tau\_Cabalander](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/tau_cabalander/32/373930_2.png) [@Tau\_Cabalander](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Tau_Cabalander)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2020, 4:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/quantum-cores-updates-begin-8-september/264126/915 "2020-09-02T16:44:52Z")
Service modules will apparently be unaffected. Active jobs should complete as expected, unless the structure loses armor. ---
**Author:** ![Erebus\_TheChin\_Sundance](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/erebus_thechin_sundance/32/375165_2.png) [@Erebus\_TheChin\_Sundance](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Erebus_TheChin_Sundance)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2020, 4:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/quantum-cores-updates-begin-8-september/264126/916 "2020-09-02T16:47:26Z")
cheers 👍 ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2020, 4:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/quantum-cores-updates-begin-8-september/264126/917 "2020-09-02T16:48:07Z")
> [@KAELA\_MENSHA](#): > > individual food production fresher food, healther food, lower transport costs. food shortage due to unforseen mishap less likely. Except that’s not entirely true, is it? Local food production means if the mishap happens _locally_, you’re more likely to get wiped out. All your eggs _are_ still in one basket, it’s just local. And industrial farming often _is_ centralized, but doesn’t _have_ to be. Industrialized, decentralized farming is really the best way to protect against the ‘one unforeseen mishap kills me and my family’. Which, y’know, is what we currently have. ---
**Author:** ![Flanidia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/flanidia/32/264223_2.png) [@Flanidia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Flanidia)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2020, 4:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/quantum-cores-updates-begin-8-september/264126/918 "2020-09-02T16:48:22Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > It raises our need for organization, but we’re already set up for it. Breaking up into smaller alliances was kinda the fallback plan from 2015-16. Is it harder to manage 500 alliances or 1? Easy question…are you willing to answer? ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2020, 4:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/quantum-cores-updates-begin-8-september/264126/919 "2020-09-02T16:52:19Z")
> [@Flanidia](#): > > Is it harder to manage 500 alliances or 1? > > Easy question…are you willing to answer? Honestly, it’s not really much harder at all, given how much of the game is ACL-based now. Most of our organizational infrastructure _doesn’t_ actually use CCP’s stuff at all, but rather forums, Jabber, Discord, etc. Coalitions aren’t supported by CCP’s code in any way, and that’s what we’re already running. So the increased overhead from having a bunch of different alliances is pretty negligible. Now, I’m sure you’re going to say that’s bull, and there _are_ some things where it’d be less convenient. Corp hangars are handy, and defensive entosising would get considerably more annoying, but everyone else above the scale of 50 people would be dealing with that, too, so relative to the rest of the game, the overall increase in difficulty wouldn’t really be that high. A rising flood swamps all boats, you know? ---
**Author:** ![Flanidia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/flanidia/32/264223_2.png) [@Flanidia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Flanidia)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2020, 4:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/quantum-cores-updates-begin-8-september/264126/920 "2020-09-02T16:52:54Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Honestly, it’s not really much harder at all, given how much of the game is ACL-based now. Which means it’s somewhat harder. Game over. Have a nice day. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2020, 4:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/quantum-cores-updates-begin-8-september/264126/921 "2020-09-02T16:53:53Z")
> [@Flanidia](#): > > Which means it’s somewhat harder. Sure, but is it much harder for _us_ than it is for a 100-man alliance that doesn’t have all of the out-of-game tools that we’ve developed? Remember, the point is that the larger group is negatively impacted less, and can adapt and benefit more, not that there’s _no_ negative impact. ---
**Author:** ![Streya\_Jormagdnir](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/streya_jormagdnir/32/227496_2.png) [@Streya\_Jormagdnir](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Streya_Jormagdnir)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2020, 4:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/quantum-cores-updates-begin-8-september/264126/922 "2020-09-02T16:55:01Z")
Yes, I was pointing this out to the guy who was claiming false equivalence to a person making a criticism. Critical reading and context, friends… ---
**Author:** ![Flanidia](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/flanidia/32/264223_2.png) [@Flanidia](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Flanidia)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2020, 4:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/quantum-cores-updates-begin-8-september/264126/923 "2020-09-02T16:56:31Z")
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