# Re-named: I lost my Azbel with my entire life’s work in the 2 weeks between logging in **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [June 18, 2020, 5:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-named-i-lost-my-azbel-with-my-entire-life-s-work-in-the-2-weeks-between-logging-in/249932 "2020-06-18T17:39:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2020, 2:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-named-i-lost-my-azbel-with-my-entire-life-s-work-in-the-2-weeks-between-logging-in/249932/205 "2020-06-19T02:47:18Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > The only reason he was punished is for not religiously reading the dev blogs. You mean not reading at all. I’m hardly religious about it and I recall seeing multiple mentions of the upcoming change. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2020, 2:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-named-i-lost-my-azbel-with-my-entire-life-s-work-in-the-2-weeks-between-logging-in/249932/206 "2020-06-19T02:48:57Z")
> [@Archer\_en\_Tilavine](#): > > only that asset safety is guaranteed to exist for the duration of the life of the structure Wait, so you think this should be so heavily grandfathered that as long as I put up a structure before they change I should get full asset safety 10 years later, after I have logged in and had every opportunity to protect my assets, as long as the structure is never destroyed? That’s utter nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Kezrai\_Charzai](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/kezrai_charzai/32/394578_2.png) [@Kezrai\_Charzai](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Kezrai_Charzai)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2020, 2:48am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-named-i-lost-my-azbel-with-my-entire-life-s-work-in-the-2-weeks-between-logging-in/249932/207 "2020-06-19T02:48:58Z")
> [@Kezrai\_Charzai](#): > > turn those mechanics around to the point of allowing quick and total destruction in a matter of weeks, without doing all kinds of email and discussion and blogs giving 6 months or more of warning > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > They did do this. Sorry, perhaps you are merely ignorant of the situation, or perhaps you are trolling as usual for a reaction. CCP released a blog about the Forsaken Fortress update on May 24th. They released the update itself barely a month later. In the middle of a pandemic. While everything was completely disrupted. No emails, no 6 months of warning. Given how long the status of Citadels has been stable, how long it’s taken them to release and update them to their current state, how long they’ve taken even to phase POS’s out… to post a blog saying “Oh yeah, and in 5 weeks any citadel you haven’t been paying attention to can go boom and lose everything”, well, as stated, is simply a big F U from CCP to their customers. As @Wanda_Fayne pointed out, I’m not even 100% relying on NPC stations being invulnerable. I wouldn’t be surprised to see CCP decide a number of NPC stations and everything in them could be sacrificed for the ‘greater good of the game’. My holdings are spread across multiple accounts, multiple sectors of space, multiple types of assets precisely because I don’t trust CCP any farther than I can throw Iceland. Wish them the best? Sure. Hope they eventually learn how to program and design games? Of course. Trust them? Not an inch. ---
**Author:** ![Archer\_en\_Tilavine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/archer_en_tilavine/32/461718_2.png) [@Archer\_en\_Tilavine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Archer_en_Tilavine)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2020, 2:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-named-i-lost-my-azbel-with-my-entire-life-s-work-in-the-2-weeks-between-logging-in/249932/208 "2020-06-19T02:49:09Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > I’m hardly religious about it and I recall seeing multiple mentions of the upcoming change. And yet again the simplest of grandfather mechanics would have eliminated the need for reading them at all to prevent such a catastrophic punishment for failure to do so. It would be completely acceptable for players to be penalized for their ignorance for assets fielded on new structures, but not the existing ones (relatively speaking, anyway, for those against the concept as a whole). ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2020, 2:49am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-named-i-lost-my-azbel-with-my-entire-life-s-work-in-the-2-weeks-between-logging-in/249932/209 "2020-06-19T02:49:58Z")
You assume that the goal is to coddle lazy players and remove any possible consequences for their laziness. I disagree with this assumption. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2020, 2:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-named-i-lost-my-azbel-with-my-entire-life-s-work-in-the-2-weeks-between-logging-in/249932/210 "2020-06-19T02:50:44Z")
NEVER mess with the prospect of a returning player. ---
**Author:** ![Archer\_en\_Tilavine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/archer_en_tilavine/32/461718_2.png) [@Archer\_en\_Tilavine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Archer_en_Tilavine)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2020, 2:50am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-named-i-lost-my-azbel-with-my-entire-life-s-work-in-the-2-weeks-between-logging-in/249932/211 "2020-06-19T02:50:55Z")
The objectives were to: 1. Decrease existing structure spam 2. Limit the permanency of structures going forward There were numerous ways this could have been accomplished - “no asset safety” did not have to be one of these ways. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2020, 2:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-named-i-lost-my-azbel-with-my-entire-life-s-work-in-the-2-weeks-between-logging-in/249932/212 "2020-06-19T02:52:09Z")
> [@Archer\_en\_Tilavine](#): > > The objectives were to: > > 1. Decrease existing structure spam > 2. Limit the permanency of structures going forward And reducing existing structure spam is undermined by grandfathering in every single existing structure forever. > There were numerous ways this could have been accomplished - “no asset safety” did not have to be one of these ways. It didn’t. But removing asset safety was a great change, and could only be improved by removing asset safety for _all_ player-built structures. ---
**Author:** ![Othello\_Warspite](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/othello_warspite/32/146796_2.png) [@Othello\_Warspite](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Othello_Warspite)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2020, 2:53am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-named-i-lost-my-azbel-with-my-entire-life-s-work-in-the-2-weeks-between-logging-in/249932/213 "2020-06-19T02:53:57Z")
Heaven forbid people have something in their life take a higher priority than EVE… you know, like trying to better your life, caring for a sick family member, or any number of real-life struggles. The fact that EVE doesn’t seem to realize anymore that Real Life comes first is deeply concerning. The fact that some posters here are cheering that mentality is worse. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2020, 2:54am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-named-i-lost-my-azbel-with-my-entire-life-s-work-in-the-2-weeks-between-logging-in/249932/214 "2020-06-19T02:54:58Z")
> [@Othello\_Warspite](#): > > Heaven forbid people have something in their life take a higher priority than EVE… No, I agree entirely. EVE is a pretty trivial concern, therefore why worry about asset loss? If your structure explodes and you lose stuff it’s meaningless compared to your real life concerns. ---
**Author:** ![MB\_ThePhotographer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mb_thephotographer/32/373722_2.png) [@MB\_ThePhotographer](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/MB_ThePhotographer)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2020, 2:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-named-i-lost-my-azbel-with-my-entire-life-s-work-in-the-2-weeks-between-logging-in/249932/215 "2020-06-19T02:55:21Z")
I see your point. But you should know better! ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2020, 2:55am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-named-i-lost-my-azbel-with-my-entire-life-s-work-in-the-2-weeks-between-logging-in/249932/216 "2020-06-19T02:55:57Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > > [@Archer\_en\_Tilavine](#): > > > > only that asset safety is guaranteed to exist for the duration of the life of the structure > > Wait, so you think this should be so heavily grandfathered that as long as I put up a structure before they change I should get full asset safety 10 years later, after I have logged in and had every opportunity to protect my assets, as long as the structure is never destroyed? That’s utter nonsense. I agree that that’s too extreme. In the new system, players are given warnings _individually_ that a citadel is about to be vulnerable, and by effects, their assets too. Any sort of “grandfathering” should have been done on an individual basis as well. Any player who didn’t log in and click through a prompt before the change went live shouldn’t have had their assets added to the drop pool. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2020, 2:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-named-i-lost-my-azbel-with-my-entire-life-s-work-in-the-2-weeks-between-logging-in/249932/217 "2020-06-19T02:56:44Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > > [@Othello\_Warspite](#): > > > > Heaven forbid people have something in their life take a higher priority than EVE… > > No, I agree entirely. EVE is a pretty trivial concern, therefore why worry about asset loss? If your structure explodes and you lose stuff it’s meaningless compared to your real life concerns. This is actually a fallacy. Just because real life is more important than a game, doesn’t mean that the game is not important. ---
**Author:** ![Jayce\_Fitzpatrick](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jayce_fitzpatrick/32/383289_2.png) [@Jayce\_Fitzpatrick](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jayce_Fitzpatrick)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2020, 2:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-named-i-lost-my-azbel-with-my-entire-life-s-work-in-the-2-weeks-between-logging-in/249932/218 "2020-06-19T02:57:57Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Any player who didn’t log in and click through a prompt before the change went live shouldn’t have had their assets added to the drop pool. How is that different? The outcry would be the same, cause people will be unable to click that prompt cause of real life obligations In the end, someone would always feel unsatisfied by the change no matter what. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Gamma](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/captain_gamma/32/251718_2.png) [@Captain\_Gamma](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Captain_Gamma)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2020, 2:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-named-i-lost-my-azbel-with-my-entire-life-s-work-in-the-2-weeks-between-logging-in/249932/219 "2020-06-19T02:58:43Z")
Fuel and asset safety should not tie to each other. No fuel should mean no reinforcement cycles, no shield or any other defense. Assets inside the structure should either drop or be destroyed. The whole concept of asset safety was flawed from the start. How was this movement of assets supposed to happen? Magic? Beam my assets, Scotty? Concord hauling your stuff to an NPC station? What would make sense is asset insurance, maybe in the same way as for ships. Or with some discount for paid accounts. But I guess it would be too hard to calculate the real value of researched BPOs or rare items. But even then it would be more or less ok, as you would be totally aware of the potential risk. Removing asset safety the way it was done was really a poor move from CCP. ---
**Author:** ![Archer\_en\_Tilavine](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/archer_en_tilavine/32/461718_2.png) [@Archer\_en\_Tilavine](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Archer_en_Tilavine)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2020, 2:58am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-named-i-lost-my-azbel-with-my-entire-life-s-work-in-the-2-weeks-between-logging-in/249932/220 "2020-06-19T02:58:45Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > And reducing existing structure spam is undermined by grandfathering in every single existing structure forever. False! The Abandoned state alone advances the goal without “no asset safety”. If a corp abandons (state) a structure, it’s easier to kill - thereby clearing spam. Players will do so simply for KB glory/griefing. If a corp doesn’t abandon it, then the point is moot, and if you want to take it down, bash it like any other. And there could have been other incentives for consideration… > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > Any sort of “grandfathering” should have been done on an individual basis as well. There are alternative methods for grandfathering, and honestly any would be acceptable. Some would be particularly impractical and unscaleable, however. Per the above, the method I suggested does not, in fact, diminish the inventice of smashing existing structures when players already enjoy bashing low-powered structures and poorly fitted/unfitted structures even at full power (structure fit scanning being a thing). ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2020, 2:59am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-named-i-lost-my-azbel-with-my-entire-life-s-work-in-the-2-weeks-between-logging-in/249932/221 "2020-06-19T02:59:36Z")
> [@Jayce\_Fitzpatrick](#): > > > [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > > > Any player who didn’t log in and click through a prompt before the change went live shouldn’t have had their assets added to the drop pool. > > How is that different? The outcry would be the same, cause people will be unable to click that prompt cause of real life obligations > > In the end, someone would always feel unsatisfied by the change no matter what. I think you misunderstood. If you don’t log in and click the prompt (possibly with the ability to also trigger instant asset safety built in), then your items don’t get added to the drop pool, and move to asset safety automatically. It means that a player wasn’t around to react to the change, and was grandfathered into the old system. ---
**Author:** ![Jayce\_Fitzpatrick](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jayce_fitzpatrick/32/383289_2.png) [@Jayce\_Fitzpatrick](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jayce_Fitzpatrick)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2020, 3:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-named-i-lost-my-azbel-with-my-entire-life-s-work-in-the-2-weeks-between-logging-in/249932/222 "2020-06-19T03:01:05Z")
It’s still the same. People will, just as they are now, say that they were unable to login and press the prompt because of real life obligations. ---
**Author:** ![Wanda\_Fayne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wanda_fayne/32/377654_2.png) [@Wanda\_Fayne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wanda_Fayne)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2020, 3:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-named-i-lost-my-azbel-with-my-entire-life-s-work-in-the-2-weeks-between-logging-in/249932/223 "2020-06-19T03:01:22Z")
> [@Destiny\_Corrupted](#): > > I think you misunderstood. If you don’t log in and click the prompt (possibly with the ability to also trigger instant asset safety built in), then your items don’t get added to the drop pool, and move to asset safety automatically. It means that a player wasn’t around to react to the change, and was grandfathered into the old system. This right here. A proper notification AND email sent, giving you notice that unless you intervene, your stuff WILL be asset safetied out of structures that are abandoned on patch day. It really is that simple. ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2020, 3:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-named-i-lost-my-azbel-with-my-entire-life-s-work-in-the-2-weeks-between-logging-in/249932/224 "2020-06-19T03:01:38Z")
> [@Captain\_Gamma](#): > > Fuel and asset safety should not tie to each other. No fuel should mean no reinforcement cycles, no shield or any other defense. Assets inside the structure should either drop or be destroyed. The whole concept of asset safety was flawed from the start. How was this movement of assets supposed to happen? Magic? Beam my assets, Scotty? Concord hauling your stuff to an NPC station? > > What would make sense is asset insurance, maybe in the same way as for ships. Or with some discount for paid accounts. But I guess it would be too hard to calculate the real value of researched BPOs or rare items. But even then it would be more or less ok, as you would be totally aware of the potential risk. > > Removing asset safety the way it was done was really a poor move from CCP. Agreed 100%. The old PoS system worked, and very few complained about it. CCP created this ■■■■■■■■■■■ by trying to cater to the safety crowd, and managed to hurt people who were playing according to the game’s design instead. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-named-i-lost-my-azbel-with-my-entire-life-s-work-in-the-2-weeks-between-logging-in/249932.md?page=10) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-named-i-lost-my-azbel-with-my-entire-life-s-work-in-the-2-weeks-between-logging-in/249932.md?page=12)