# Re-named: I lost my Azbel with my entire life’s work in the 2 weeks between logging in **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [June 18, 2020, 5:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-named-i-lost-my-azbel-with-my-entire-life-s-work-in-the-2-weeks-between-logging-in/249932 "2020-06-18T17:39:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 30
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2020, 7:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-named-i-lost-my-azbel-with-my-entire-life-s-work-in-the-2-weeks-between-logging-in/249932/625 "2020-06-21T19:21:22Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > No they can’t. Selling an item requires that you own it first, and players own absolutely nothing in EVE. and still CCP says it’s forbidden. There fore, it’s possible. Therefore, you are wrong when claiming there is no RMT. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2020, 7:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-named-i-lost-my-azbel-with-my-entire-life-s-work-in-the-2-weeks-between-logging-in/249932/626 "2020-06-21T19:23:29Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > and still CCP says it’s forbidden. I forbid you from casting lightning bolt to kill another player. Therefore it must be possible for you to become at least a level 5 wizard and cast 3rd level arcane spells IRL. You still have done nothing whatsoever to address the fact that you own nothing in EVE and therefore have nothing to sell. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2020, 7:25pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-named-i-lost-my-azbel-with-my-entire-life-s-work-in-the-2-weeks-between-logging-in/249932/627 "2020-06-21T19:25:17Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > I forbid you from casting lightning bolt to kill another player. Therefore it must be possible for you to become at least a level 5 wizard and cast 3rd level arcane spells IRL. Yeah but that’s just because you want to prove you are a moron. CCP forbids to sell items for real money, therefore it’s possible to sell items for real money. What you forbid to do in your brain, just talks about your brain. > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > You still have done nothing whatsoever to address the fact that you own nothing in EVE and therefore have nothing to sell. Indeed, because that’s just more BS in your head. There is nothing to address because there is nothing of value in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2020, 7:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-named-i-lost-my-azbel-with-my-entire-life-s-work-in-the-2-weeks-between-logging-in/249932/628 "2020-06-21T19:28:36Z")
Huh turns out I wasnt banned. And this is still going on. Remarkable. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2020, 7:29pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-named-i-lost-my-azbel-with-my-entire-life-s-work-in-the-2-weeks-between-logging-in/249932/629 "2020-06-21T19:29:59Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > CCP forbids to sell items for real money, therefore it’s possible to sell items for real money. Again, no it is not. Lawyers ban “impossible” things all the time. Let me give you some reasons why they might do so: 1. Simplicity. By having a separate ban CCP doesn’t have to rely on people understanding the fact that all in-game items being owned by CCP makes selling in-game items impossible. They just ban it again and have a nice simple EULA statement to point to. 2. Redundancy. By having a separate ban on selling in-game items even if something about the “we own all items” part of the EULA was found to be unenforceable CCP would still have the desired ban in place. 3. Removal of loopholes. By having a separate ban CCP doesn’t have to deal with people like you who would nitpick endlessly about how words are defined. There’s no dispute over what action is banned, it says so right there in the EULA. 4. Setting up the “or attempting to do so” part of the ban. Even if it not possible to successfully accomplish the banned actions CCP also, at the same time, bans attempting to do so. > Indeed, because that’s just more BS in your head. Yes, the part of the EULA where CCP explicitly states that you do not own anything in EVE is clearly just “BS in my head”. Do you honestly think that anyone believes your idiocy? ---
**Author:** ![Destriouth\_Hollow](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destriouth_hollow/32/211314_2.png) [@Destriouth\_Hollow](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destriouth_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2020, 7:31pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-named-i-lost-my-azbel-with-my-entire-life-s-work-in-the-2-weeks-between-logging-in/249932/630 "2020-06-21T19:31:41Z")
Prostetution is forbidden in some areas. Therefore there is no thing as prostetution in the world. What does that word mean again? Does it exist? Also selling for drugs doesn’t exist. What a stupid disuccion. Why is that even a discussion? People have RMTed in the past, some got banned for it. If it’s not possible, why did CCP ban them? ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2020, 7:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-named-i-lost-my-azbel-with-my-entire-life-s-work-in-the-2-weeks-between-logging-in/249932/632 "2020-06-21T19:32:42Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Again, no it is not. Lawyers ban “impossible” things all the time. Let me give you some reasons why they might do so: Not for video games. There is no reason to ban anything not possible in a video game. The fact that CCP forbids it, means it’s possible. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2020, 7:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-named-i-lost-my-azbel-with-my-entire-life-s-work-in-the-2-weeks-between-logging-in/249932/633 "2020-06-21T19:33:20Z")
> [@Destriouth\_Hollow](#): > > People have RMTed in the past, some got banned for it. If it’s not possible, why did CCP ban them? Again, RMTing is possible and gets you banned. RMTing does not, however, involve you buying or selling assets for cash because at all times CCP retains ownership of all in-game assets. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2020, 7:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-named-i-lost-my-azbel-with-my-entire-life-s-work-in-the-2-weeks-between-logging-in/249932/634 "2020-06-21T19:33:47Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > There is no reason to ban anything not possible in a video game. I just gave you several of them. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2020, 7:35pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-named-i-lost-my-azbel-with-my-entire-life-s-work-in-the-2-weeks-between-logging-in/249932/635 "2020-06-21T19:35:49Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Again, RMTing is possible and gets you banned. But it’s not possible according to yourself ! > [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > RMTing does not, however, involve you buying or selling assets for cash because at all times CCP retains ownership of all in-game assets. And that’s just wrong. The simple fact that CCP forbids it, means it’s possible. Your claim that RMT does not exist in Eve is just stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2020, 7:36pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-named-i-lost-my-azbel-with-my-entire-life-s-work-in-the-2-weeks-between-logging-in/249932/636 "2020-06-21T19:36:31Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > But it’s not possible according to yourself ! Stop lying. > And that’s just wrong. Oh really? How can you sell an asset that you do not own? ---
**Author:** ![Jerry\_Falcone](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jerry_falcone/32/167073_2.png) [@Jerry\_Falcone](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jerry_Falcone)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2020, 7:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-named-i-lost-my-azbel-with-my-entire-life-s-work-in-the-2-weeks-between-logging-in/249932/638 "2020-06-21T19:39:38Z")
@Anderson_Geten, if I make a deal out of game to sell my Titan for $50 USD. And I transfer the Titan after receiving payment, that is RMT. Suggesting that I “owned” the Titan to begin with, which I don’t own it, CCP does. So now I transferred something that didn’t belong to me, to someone else for real money. And the buyer bought something that doesn’t belong to them after paying for it. Which most video games do not belong to the player, they are licensed just like EVE. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2020, 7:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-named-i-lost-my-azbel-with-my-entire-life-s-work-in-the-2-weeks-between-logging-in/249932/639 "2020-06-21T19:40:16Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > Oh really? How can you sell an asset that you do not own? ask CCP then. They will tell you, how you actually can sell assets for RL money - and that RMT is possible, on the opposite of what you claim. @Jerry_Falcone indeed, selling game items IRL does not require you to actually own the items But that’s too much for him to understand. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2020, 7:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-named-i-lost-my-azbel-with-my-entire-life-s-work-in-the-2-weeks-between-logging-in/249932/641 "2020-06-21T19:44:05Z")
> [@Destriouth\_Hollow](#): > > This is so close to the real-life equivalent of selling goods, that refusing to call it that is nitpicking. What’s more, you don’t need to be selling goods to be selling something. You can sell an access, even if you don’t own the item accessed. In that case, selling the access is considered the same as selling the item - and that’s why its forbidden. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2020, 7:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-named-i-lost-my-azbel-with-my-entire-life-s-work-in-the-2-weeks-between-logging-in/249932/642 "2020-06-21T19:44:14Z")
> [@Destriouth\_Hollow](#): > > People are paying for this movement of ingame assets. And here you understand what the idiot troll doesn’t: RMTing is purchasing a _service_, not an asset. The assets themselves still have zero monetary value. > This is so close to the real-life equivalent of selling goods, that refusing to call it that is nitpicking. No, it’s a difference that is very significant. For example, if CCP catches you RMTing and removes the assets from your account there’s nothing you can do about it. At no point did you take possession of any assets, so CCP did not take anything of monetary value from you. Also, if you hold that RMTing has monetary value then so does every other instance of asset transfer or loss in EVE. Someone blows up your ship? Sue them for the cash value of that ship. Etc. > Why write 3 sentences to explain the transaction if you can just call it “selling” and everyone knows what it means. Exactly. Again, this is what you understand but the idiot troll doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2020, 7:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-named-i-lost-my-azbel-with-my-entire-life-s-work-in-the-2-weeks-between-logging-in/249932/643 "2020-06-21T19:45:24Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > RMTing is purchasing a _service_ , not an asset. The assets themselves still have zero monetary value. No, it’s purchasing an asset. You don’t purchase a service. ---
**Author:** ![Destriouth\_Hollow](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destriouth_hollow/32/211314_2.png) [@Destriouth\_Hollow](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destriouth_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2020, 7:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-named-i-lost-my-azbel-with-my-entire-life-s-work-in-the-2-weeks-between-logging-in/249932/644 "2020-06-21T19:45:41Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > the item - an Just because something is illegal, doesn’t mean it is not real. Drug trafficing is very much selling drugs. If you get caught those drugs very well get confescated. Noone would argue that “you cannot sell drugs” because of that. This is not an arguement. ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2020, 7:46pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-named-i-lost-my-azbel-with-my-entire-life-s-work-in-the-2-weeks-between-logging-in/249932/645 "2020-06-21T19:46:29Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > No, it’s purchasing an asset. Oh really? What exactly is the asset being purchased, given the fact that CCP owns all in-game assets in EVE? What asset do you now own? ---
**Author:** ![Anderson\_Geten](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/anderson_geten/32/390041_2.png) [@Anderson\_Geten](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Anderson_Geten)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2020, 7:47pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-named-i-lost-my-azbel-with-my-entire-life-s-work-in-the-2-weeks-between-logging-in/249932/646 "2020-06-21T19:47:42Z")
> [@Merin\_Ryskin](#): > > What asset do you now own? The one that CCP says you MAY NOT sell. Learn to read, when ? ---
**Author:** ![Merin\_Ryskin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/merin_ryskin/32/259354_2.png) [@Merin\_Ryskin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Merin_Ryskin)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2020, 7:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-named-i-lost-my-azbel-with-my-entire-life-s-work-in-the-2-weeks-between-logging-in/249932/647 "2020-06-21T19:48:07Z")
> [@Anderson\_Geten](#): > > The one that CCP sells you MAY NOT sell. You don’t own that asset. CCP owns that asset. Try again. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-named-i-lost-my-azbel-with-my-entire-life-s-work-in-the-2-weeks-between-logging-in/249932.md?page=29) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-named-i-lost-my-azbel-with-my-entire-life-s-work-in-the-2-weeks-between-logging-in/249932.md?page=31)