# RE: NPE/Alpha Retention. Time to Stop the Scams? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [September 14, 2017, 1:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-npe-alpha-retention-time-to-stop-the-scams/24349 "2017-09-14T01:08:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Giddy\_McFee](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/giddy_mcfee/32/375711_2.png) [@Giddy\_McFee](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Giddy_McFee)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 9:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-npe-alpha-retention-time-to-stop-the-scams/24349/22 "2017-09-14T09:47:39Z")
> [@Linus\_Gorp](#): > > The players dumb enough to fall for those scams are also dumb enough to be decent EVE material. No loss there. You are obviously not a new player who has been dropped in the deep end and trying to find their way, People like you are what make people leave. “who cares” you say well other players who have a different attitude to you care as we want players to stay and embrace the eve world and play it to increase the longevity of the game rather than just leave after a crap experience. personally I would rather see you leave and 5 newer players stay if you have that attitude. ---
**Author:** ![DeMichael\_Crimson](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/demichael_crimson/32/514115_2.png) [@DeMichael\_Crimson](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/DeMichael_Crimson)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 9:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-npe-alpha-retention-time-to-stop-the-scams/24349/23 "2017-09-14T09:56:30Z")
> [@Vortexo\_VonBrenner](#): > > Nope. Caveat emptor. > Let the buyer beware: the principle that the seller of a product cannot be held responsible for its quality unless it is guaranteed in a warranty. Well, obviously there’s a reason why legal authorities implement criminal charges for false advertising. > Deceptive advertising, also known as false advertising, refers to a manufacturer’s use of confusing, misleading, or blatantly untrue statements when promoting a product. Advertising law will protect consumers from deceptive advertising through the enforcement of specific legislation. The contract title could basically be considered advertising that guarantees the items within the contract are genuine, and if the items are anything different from what the contract title states, then that’s false advertising. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Knob](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sam_knob/32/71775_2.png) [@Sam\_Knob](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sam_Knob)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 10:03am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-npe-alpha-retention-time-to-stop-the-scams/24349/24 "2017-09-14T10:03:53Z")
> [@Giddy\_McFee](#): > > “who cares” you say well other players who have a different attitude to you care as we want players to stay and embrace the eve world and play it to increase the longevity of the game rather than just leave after a crap experience. personally I would rather see you leave and 5 newer players stay if you have that attitude. I think what he meant to say is: Getting scammed is comparable to getting your stuff blown up in space. If you can’t handle losing your stuff, then EVE really isn’t the game for you. He’s right, you cannot deny that at some point in some way, no matter how careful you are you’re going to lose something of great value, if that’s something that makes you quit a game instead of trying to learn from your loss, then you better save yourself the money and go look for another game. ---
**Author:** ![Giddy\_McFee](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/giddy_mcfee/32/375711_2.png) [@Giddy\_McFee](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Giddy_McFee)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 10:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-npe-alpha-retention-time-to-stop-the-scams/24349/25 "2017-09-14T10:14:32Z")
> [@Sam\_Knob](#): > > I think what he meant to say is: Getting scammed is comparable to getting your stuff blown up in space. If you can’t handle losing your stuff, then EVE really isn’t the game for you. He’s right, you cannot deny that at some point in some way, no matter how careful you are you’re going to lose something of great value, if that’s something that makes you quit a game instead of trying to learn from your loss, then you better save yourself the money and go look for another game. What you say is perfectly reasonable you go out in space in a ship, consider it lost already. but a scam is a bit different to that do you not think. Offer that Omen Navy Issue and get a Omen instead, (a mild example I know). But new players are just no aware this is even a scam until scammed. I know all the trust no one comments etc and people are automatically supposed to know this when joining but the nuances of a scam are not always known or obvious. For example I Was trying to sell a faction mod in Jita. As an experiment I offered it out in local (yeah I know right) and I was getting people opening trade windows with exactly the amount I was asking for. But (and even though I am not sure exactly how the scam works) I know that this is the “trade window scam”. I know of this so avoid it. But a new player a few days in who may have had a bit of luck and get an expensive item doesn’t know this and falls for it, he is 260m or so down and thinks sod this and leaves, that is no benefit to eve whatsoever and saying “so what” shows a level or ignorance and arrogance that isn’t needed in game. (trawl through the forums and you see this attitude everywhere) That is completely different to getting killed in a ship, however players should know about the aggression mechanics that people try to goad them into breaking (but that is another post). So whilst I am not saying ban scams from game (although I do like that legal proceeding skill to a certain degree), I am saying make information available via official means so that people are informed (they can also do that for aggression mechanics). ---
**Author:** ![Algarion\_Getz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/algarion_getz/32/356396_2.png) [@Algarion\_Getz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Algarion_Getz)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 11:05am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-npe-alpha-retention-time-to-stop-the-scams/24349/26 "2017-09-14T11:05:22Z")
Anything that is posted in local chat = scam. Dont read it. A basic rule of EVE. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Knob](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/sam_knob/32/71775_2.png) [@Sam\_Knob](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Sam_Knob)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 11:07am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-npe-alpha-retention-time-to-stop-the-scams/24349/27 "2017-09-14T11:07:28Z")
> [@Giddy\_McFee](#): > > I am saying make information available via official means so that people are informed (they can also do that for aggression mechanics). [Causality Trailer](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGplrpWvz0I) CCP has been (IMO) very open at all times about their stance on scamming, backstabbing etc. But I don’t think it’s reasonable to ask them to remind new players of that fact on a regular basis just to make sure everybody got it. In EVE you need to work for everything, doing your research, coming prepared and being aware of risks at all times is rewarded more than in any other game I know. > [@Giddy\_McFee](#): > > But a new player a few days in who may have had a bit of luck and get an expensive item doesn’t know this and falls for it, he is 260m or so down and thinks sod this and leaves Where’s the difference between this newbie and the one that got his favourite missioning ship blown up by gankers and decides to leave? Both have options to learn from their mistakes and avoid falling for the same trap again, instead of doing that, they decide to leave. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Angelo\_Batio](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/michael_angelo_batio/32/79739_2.png) [@Michael\_Angelo\_Batio](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Michael_Angelo_Batio)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 11:12am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-npe-alpha-retention-time-to-stop-the-scams/24349/28 "2017-09-14T11:12:43Z")
well, most of them are because someone was stupid enough to fall for them, if nobody fell for them… it would soon die out ---
**Author:** ![yellow\_parasol](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yellow_parasol/32/10455_2.png) [@yellow\_parasol](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/yellow_parasol)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 11:26am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-npe-alpha-retention-time-to-stop-the-scams/24349/29 "2017-09-14T11:26:40Z")
“protect the children” is not an argument whatsoever, when they didn’t need to be protected for over a decade. There aren’t enough scammers out there to make your false argument a valid one. Stop trampling on minorities, and declaring everyone a victim by default. your attitude is horrible, and you’re not a good person. ---
**Author:** ![Giddy\_McFee](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/giddy_mcfee/32/375711_2.png) [@Giddy\_McFee](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Giddy_McFee)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 11:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-npe-alpha-retention-time-to-stop-the-scams/24349/30 "2017-09-14T11:28:36Z")
@sam_knob no perhaps CCP shouldn’t have to say it again and again to people to remind others, but a forum post sticky maybe listing the different known scams maybe useful. Sadly forum posts seem to be closed after 3 months so not sure how that would work. And whilst I know of some scams and treat a lot of things suspiciously I don’t know the details, if I did I would draft a forum post aimed towards new people which would outline some scams… It isn’t unreasonable to think that new players read these forums. I think the difference between the newbie getting his ship blown up or the newbie scammed in a trade window scam is one is more obvious and less underhand that the other (but then that is my overall opinion of scams). I remember back when I first started I was flying a badly fit cormorant and someone came in and starting “stealing” the salvage from my wrecks. Not being aware of aggression tactics I locked him and shot him, I was of course obliterated. I didn’t know about timers so I bought another ship out to collect my wreck, the player was still there and I died again. Luckily, despite that aggression the person convoed me and explain what was happening and now I know about aggression mechanics. Now I could have chosen to quit there and then or absorb the knowledge, I think I lost 10 or 15m in total so yeah pee’d off at the time. I think I was not in game very long then I think that with a scam the whole scenario around it is more shady and underhand, the mechanics of them are not so obvious and the potential losses are greater for a new player who is generally tight on isk. Just look at the 9.5billion in the leaving eve firesale that has demoted now to 9.5b of stolen loot scam being churned out in Jita atm. (not sure why people fall for that as people with 950 million (as that is how they price the scam) is likely to have been in game a while. I guess what I am saying is that some people will leave anyway, but I think the scam will more likely make someone leave as they see it as a con, whereas losing your ship is more upfront and in your face. I guess at the end of the day it is all down to our own individual beliefs regarding scams. Sorry, I know that was a wall of text. ---
**Author:** ![yellow\_parasol](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yellow_parasol/32/10455_2.png) [@yellow\_parasol](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/yellow_parasol)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 11:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-npe-alpha-retention-time-to-stop-the-scams/24349/31 "2017-09-14T11:29:46Z")
> [@Sam\_Knob](#): > > Both have options to learn from their mistakes and avoid falling for the same trap again, instead of doing that, they decide to leave. “everyone is a victim by default and the thousands of scammers ynd gankers killed all new players long ago, we just don’t see that for some reason, but they definitely do it.” you guys are an unreasonable, hateful bunch. ---
**Author:** ![Gregorius\_Goldstein](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gregorius_goldstein/32/11133_2.png) [@Gregorius\_Goldstein](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gregorius_Goldstein)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 11:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-npe-alpha-retention-time-to-stop-the-scams/24349/32 "2017-09-14T11:37:01Z")
Hundreds of alphas stayed with EVE because it is one of the few games were you can prey on the stupid and weak. I HAVE PROOF. ---
**Author:** ![JC\_Mieyli](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jc_mieyli/32/242789_2.png) [@JC\_Mieyli](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/JC_Mieyli)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 11:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-npe-alpha-retention-time-to-stop-the-scams/24349/33 "2017-09-14T11:37:42Z")
> [@Giddy\_McFee](#): > > I was getting people opening trade windows with exactly the amount I was asking for. But (and even though I am not sure exactly how the scam works) I know that this is the “trade window scam” lmao good job outsmarting those scammers ---
**Author:** ![Althalus\_Stenory](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/althalus_stenory/32/429792_2.png) [@Althalus\_Stenory](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Althalus_Stenory)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 11:37am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-npe-alpha-retention-time-to-stop-the-scams/24349/34 "2017-09-14T11:37:43Z")
## tl;dr; ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/b/3/b3308b8dfcc009fa0ec4463576c8e37b3e898db7.jpg) ## bit longer: hahaha… no. Why: because it’s eve. If they leave because of scam, and you fix it, they’ll leave because of gank, because of spy, because of [insert anything stupid here]. It’s a neverending “fail fix ■■■■” Conclusion: they don’t fit the game, they better leave. We are not in that shitty game made by blizzard for crying people, where “fixes” make the game easier for kiddies, we are in EVE. Sure we want new players, but players that can play EVE, not people that ■■■■ their pants each time they see ganking, scam etc. Now the fun part: I also know plenty of guy that decided to go on omega because… they got scammed / ganked, so your argument is not relevant to all alpha. About the “sue skill for scam contract” yeah right, what a nice way for abuses, because everybody knows that every big alliance will use and abuse this to annoy their opponents, right ? ---
**Author:** ![yellow\_parasol](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yellow_parasol/32/10455_2.png) [@yellow\_parasol](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/yellow_parasol)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 11:39am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-npe-alpha-retention-time-to-stop-the-scams/24349/35 "2017-09-14T11:39:28Z")
misses the part that mentions that antagonists are a tiny minority, and that the fake good people always blow everything out of proportions, because they want to get rid of them. ---
**Author:** ![Ivory\_Harcourt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ivory_harcourt/32/368154_2.png) [@Ivory\_Harcourt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ivory_Harcourt)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 1:07pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-npe-alpha-retention-time-to-stop-the-scams/24349/36 "2017-09-14T13:07:58Z")
Are we discussing this bullpoo as if it’s something serious? Hey OP, do you wanna remove spaceships? I want to fly dragons instead , kay? ---
**Author:** ![Wylex\_Cross](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wylex_cross/32/459154_2.png) [@Wylex\_Cross](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wylex_Cross)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 1:38pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-npe-alpha-retention-time-to-stop-the-scams/24349/37 "2017-09-14T13:38:15Z")
For new players? Career Agent business NPC’s can say ‘Hey… watch out for those pesky scams’ or something like that after completion. It would be a slight suggestion and not an overhaul of stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Wolfgang\_Jannesen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/wolfgang_jannesen/32/496726_2.png) [@Wolfgang\_Jannesen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Wolfgang_Jannesen)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 1:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-npe-alpha-retention-time-to-stop-the-scams/24349/38 "2017-09-14T13:39:42Z")
I don’t know what you want us to say other than if you’ve had an email adress in the 90’s scams are nothing new, and it perfectly fits in EVE’s themes to allow a player to drop a hook and let little dummies bite at it. I don’t think the blame falls on anybody but the victim, and I don’t think CCP should enforce any rules against scammers for innocently breaking no rules ---
**Author:** ![Manwithdog](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/manwithdog/32/255036_2.png) [@Manwithdog](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Manwithdog)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 2:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-npe-alpha-retention-time-to-stop-the-scams/24349/39 "2017-09-14T14:01:47Z")
Oh HELLLLLLL NO , scamming good , control is bad. Easy to avoid , usually easy to see unless we are talking at a alliance level by which time the people being scammed will likely be able to recover. Scamming requires a certain naivety which not all new players are , old players get scammed all the time too. ---
**Author:** ![Blade\_Darth](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/blade_darth/32/378598_2.png) [@Blade\_Darth](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Blade_Darth)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 2:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-npe-alpha-retention-time-to-stop-the-scams/24349/40 "2017-09-14T14:39:14Z")
2/10 … (post must have at least 5 characters) ---
**Author:** ![Loutro\_Fift](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/loutro_fift/32/195473_2.png) [@Loutro\_Fift](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Loutro_Fift)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2017, 5:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-npe-alpha-retention-time-to-stop-the-scams/24349/41 "2017-09-14T17:58:29Z")
> [@DeMichael\_Crimson](#): > > Personally, I think CCP should add a new skill to the game so that players could sue scam contracts for False Advertisement. I’m talking about contracts that say ‘Full set of +5 Implants’ when there’s actually only a couple of them contained in the contract. Or contracts that say ‘Faction Ship’ when it’s actually a T1 ship, etc. > > New skill = Legal Proceedings: > > This skill allows a lawyer to sue one previously flagged contract once every 24 hours for False Advertisement per level. Each level trained would allow the ability to sue another previously flagged contract plus add another 10% to the settlement fee. The settlement fee is a percentage of the contract price to be removed from the wallet of the contract owner. If the owner of the flagged contract doesn’t have enough isk to pay the settlement fee, any remaining isk in the contract owners wallet is removed as settlement fee and the contract is then removed from public view. > > Level 1 = ability to sue 1 previously flagged contract every 24 hours for 20% of the contract price. > Level 2 = ability to sue 2 previously flagged contracts every 24 hours for 30% of the contract price. > Level 3 = ability to sue 3 previously flagged contracts every 24 hours for 40% of the contract price. > Level 4 = ability to sue 4 previously flagged contracts every 24 hours for 50% of the contract price. > Level 5 = ability to sue 5 previously flagged contracts every 24 hours for 60% of the contract price and special ability. > > Special Ability: > Legal Proceedings Level 5 grants the Lawyer legal authority to be Judge, Jury and Executioner allowing him to ‘Flag’ one different contract every 24 hours for False Advertisement. That contract would then need to be ratified or flagged by 2 other level 5 Lawyers to enable Legal Proceedings against the contract, thus enforcing the 3 strike rule. > > Joseph ‘Judge’ Dread > [https://youtu.be/7a52uMkEg4g](https://youtu.be/7a52uMkEg4g) > > _\*DeMichael Crimson silently embarks on the “long walk” from Mega-City One , a tradition in which a retiring Judge ventures into the “Cursed Earth” wasteland “to bring law to the lawless”._ Lawyers and Lawsuits in Eve? Oh. Hell. No. This is Eve, take matters into your own hands. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-npe-alpha-retention-time-to-stop-the-scams/24349.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/re-npe-alpha-retention-time-to-stop-the-scams/24349.md?page=3)