# Rebalance Incursion Mothership Sites **URL:** \ **Category:** Player Features & Ideas\ **Tags:** pve, high-sec\ **Created:** [March 30, 2024, 3:16am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rebalance-incursion-mothership-sites/444634 "2024-03-30T03:16:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Varossi\_Uravo\_Ijonen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/varossi_uravo_ijonen/32/416483_2.png) [@Varossi\_Uravo\_Ijonen](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Varossi_Uravo_Ijonen)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2024, 9:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rebalance-incursion-mothership-sites/444634/87 "2024-04-01T09:46:03Z")
Please stop replying to these safety alts. They are not interested in having a conversation in good faith. ---
**Author:** ![Malcolm\_Galora](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/malcolm_galora/32/478320_2.png) [@Malcolm\_Galora](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Malcolm_Galora)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2024, 9:46am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rebalance-incursion-mothership-sites/444634/88 "2024-04-01T09:46:06Z")
Then people’s problem is the amount of isk being made, so CCP should reduce the isk payouts and not the content. ---
**Author:** ![Malcolm\_Galora](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/malcolm_galora/32/478320_2.png) [@Malcolm\_Galora](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Malcolm_Galora)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2024, 9:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rebalance-incursion-mothership-sites/444634/89 "2024-04-01T09:47:34Z")
It doesn’t matter what they think or if they agree with me, it matters about other people reading the discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Mephiztopheleze](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mephiztopheleze/32/381036_2.png) [@Mephiztopheleze](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mephiztopheleze)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2024, 10:34am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rebalance-incursion-mothership-sites/444634/90 "2024-04-01T10:34:27Z")
it’s the amount of ISK combined with very low risk that’s the “problem” (for wont of a better word) with hisec incursions. ---
**Author:** ![Mephiztopheleze](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mephiztopheleze/32/381036_2.png) [@Mephiztopheleze](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mephiztopheleze)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2024, 10:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rebalance-incursion-mothership-sites/444634/91 "2024-04-01T10:36:40Z")
true. i’ll stick with my C5 bearhole thanks. the occasional rage roll fleet dropping on me keeps it interesting. sometimes I get away cleanly, sometimes I lose a ship. all depends where in the cycle I am at the time. and you don’t hear me complaining about having the sites in my system roached by roll-ins while I’m offline. ---
**Author:** ![Malcolm\_Galora](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/malcolm_galora/32/478320_2.png) [@Malcolm\_Galora](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Malcolm_Galora)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2024, 11:01am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rebalance-incursion-mothership-sites/444634/92 "2024-04-01T11:01:19Z")
There is always risk, both in site and with gankers. Incursion runners are just good at preventing such losses as much as possible, beyond pure stupidity/negligence. People who claim otherwise don’t know what they are talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Malcolm\_Galora](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/malcolm_galora/32/478320_2.png) [@Malcolm\_Galora](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Malcolm_Galora)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2024, 11:08am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rebalance-incursion-mothership-sites/444634/93 "2024-04-01T11:08:17Z")
[Example of losses that are consistent enough to dispute “safety”.](https://zkillboard.com/asearch/#%7B%22buttons%22:%5B%22togglefilters%22,%22alltime%22,%22rolling%22,%22label-loc:highsec%22,%22label-npc%22,%22label-isk:1b+%22,%22attackers-and%22,%22either-and%22,%22victims-and%22,%22sort-date%22,%22sort-desc%22,%22page1%22,%22allinvolved%22%5D,%22neutrals%22:%5B%7B%22type%22:%22groupID%22,%22id%22:1056%7D%5D%7D) [Also while traveling.](https://zkillboard.com/asearch/#%7B%22buttons%22:%5B%22togglefilters%22,%22alltime%22,%22label-ganked%22,%22label-npc%22,%22label-isk:1b+%22,%22attackers-and%22,%22either-and%22,%22victims-and%22,%22sort-date%22,%22sort-desc%22,%22page1%22,%22allinvolved%22%5D,%22neutrals%22:%5B%7B%22type%22:%22shipID%22,%22id%22:34328%7D%5D%7D) ---
**Author:** ![Mephiztopheleze](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mephiztopheleze/32/381036_2.png) [@Mephiztopheleze](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mephiztopheleze)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2024, 11:45am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rebalance-incursion-mothership-sites/444634/94 "2024-04-01T11:45:41Z")
those losses in the first link are NPC losses. So the logi wasn’t fast enough, the victim didn’t broadcast in time or they were stuck in bastion. that’s not a ‘safety’ issue, that’s a terrible players issue. if you die to NPCs, whose stats and capabilities are very well known, that’s on you. the second link is a bunch of bowheads, the two most recent in Uedama both of which were unfit bowheads except cargo expander lows. they were idiots who got what they deserved. it’s certainly not a compelling argument that CCP should intervene and make the hisec incursion community completely free of any consequence. ---
**Author:** ![Malcolm\_Galora](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/malcolm_galora/32/478320_2.png) [@Malcolm\_Galora](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Malcolm_Galora)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2024, 12:04pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rebalance-incursion-mothership-sites/444634/95 "2024-04-01T12:04:01Z")
Your definition of what defines safety is severely skewed. People put their ships at risk running sites or traveling. Just because you can’t randomly engage anyone you want in highsec making isk without some sort of concord response doesn’t make it completely risk free in terms of putting your isk on the line running any sort of content. Like any facet of eve, you learn to mitigate your losses as you progress. ---
**Author:** ![Mephiztopheleze](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mephiztopheleze/32/381036_2.png) [@Mephiztopheleze](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mephiztopheleze)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2024, 12:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rebalance-incursion-mothership-sites/444634/96 "2024-04-01T12:55:02Z")
I’m really not sure what is the point you’re trying to make. Yes, there is a risk running any site. Those risks are easily ameliorated by doing a little research and figuring out if your ship and fit are capable of dealing with it. If you die to an npc site that’s been in the game, unchanged, for a decade, well that’s a you problem. Yes, there are risks while travelling. Those risks can also easily be reduced, again with a little research and actually fitting your ship for travel. If you know you’re travelling through a gankers hotspot like Uedama, then it’s incumbent on you to decide if the risk is worth it. Again, i fail to understand what it is you want in all of this. ---
**Author:** ![Syzygium](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/syzygium/32/510263_2.png) [@Syzygium](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Syzygium)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2024, 2:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rebalance-incursion-mothership-sites/444634/97 "2024-04-01T14:18:38Z")
> [@Mephiztopheleze](#): > > Again, i fail to understand what it is you want in all of this. He wants to have a money-printing guarantee for the content he chose to mass-multibox for making absurd amounts of ISK without other people being able to interfere with that. The only ‘risk’ I can see in this activity comes from the multiboxing itself when messing up to end the bastion in time on account #12 or doing any other mistake that wouldn’t have happen if he would play on one account only and could actually concentrate on the activity. Or just being careless and not doing the homework. Really, these sites have been solved long ago, a proper equipped fleet simply _cannot die_ unless someone really \*\*\*\*\* up badly. It isn’t even like in the Abyss where you have to solve multiple challenges with just one ship and make the correct decisions quickly and risk multiple billion ISK while under time-pressure and gank-risk. Or in WHspace where you have multiple B on the field and can be jumped on any minute by a ragerolling PvP fleet. ---
**Author:** ![Malcolm\_Galora](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/malcolm_galora/32/478320_2.png) [@Malcolm\_Galora](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Malcolm_Galora)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2024, 2:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rebalance-incursion-mothership-sites/444634/98 "2024-04-01T14:54:03Z")
> [@Syzygium](#): > > Really, these sites have been solved long ago, a proper equipped fleet simply _cannot die_ unless someone really \*\*\*\*\* up badly. Human error is a risk in any aspect of EVE, the nature of managing a grid of 40+ pilots (with or without boxes) just means its more work to mitigate. > [@Syzygium](#): > > The only ‘risk’ I can see in this activity comes from the multiboxing itself when messing up to end the bastion in time on account #12 or doing any other mistake that wouldn’t have happen if he would play on one account only and could actually concentrate on the activity. Not every fleet is boxed, several fleets run with 40 actual people, with more waiting to get a turn. One of the few PvE content of its scale, like I’ve pointed out I wish CCP would work towards new content that makes use of large scale fleets such as Incursions. > [@Mephiztopheleze](#): > > Yes, there is a risk running any site. > [@Mephiztopheleze](#): > > Yes, there are risks while travelling. The reason I didn’t continue this argument is because it went from “very little risk” to “yes of course there is risk”. There isn’t really anything to respond to that. > [@Mephiztopheleze](#): > > Again, i fail to understand what it is you want in all of this. I make it clear in my OP. I would like an amount of time, to where incursion runners of all TZ can actually move to the focus, to better counter any play against the mom site. Literally nobody can do anything when the person going for it just gets notification, moves to focus, logs off and waits, then immediately pops it as it spawns. I can’t explain it any better for you, so I won’t. ---
**Author:** ![Psycho\_Schizophrenic](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/psycho_schizophrenic/32/410942_2.png) [@Psycho\_Schizophrenic](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Psycho_Schizophrenic)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2024, 4:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rebalance-incursion-mothership-sites/444634/99 "2024-04-01T16:28:54Z")
empty talks, guys, let us address **THE ELEPHAN** T in the room, EVERYBODY KNOWS IT - the ROOT of the problem is MULTI-BOXING !!! Let’s make a vote to force CCP to remove MULTIBOXING, vote 1 player 1 window for all !!! 👍 ---
**Author:** ![Mephiztopheleze](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mephiztopheleze/32/381036_2.png) [@Mephiztopheleze](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mephiztopheleze)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2024, 7:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rebalance-incursion-mothership-sites/444634/100 "2024-04-01T19:52:58Z")
> [@Malcolm\_Galora](#): > > The reason I didn’t continue this argument is because it went from “very little risk” to “yes of course there is risk”. There isn’t really anything to respond to that. Wow, that’s some impressive quoting out of context there. The risks i mentioned are very, very small. Especially when measured against the returns ---
**Author:** ![Ezabella](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ezabella/32/416231_2.png) [@Ezabella](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ezabella)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2024, 8:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rebalance-incursion-mothership-sites/444634/101 "2024-04-01T20:14:46Z")
Yeah let’s ‘force’ CCP to dramatically lower their bottom line and player count, this is the best idea in the thread so far. Good job with the well thought out reply. ---
**Author:** ![Psycho\_Schizophrenic](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/psycho_schizophrenic/32/410942_2.png) [@Psycho\_Schizophrenic](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Psycho_Schizophrenic)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2024, 12:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rebalance-incursion-mothership-sites/444634/103 "2024-04-02T00:10:31Z")
Just need to be open-minded and resourceful and introduce new content, not being EXTRA greedy, and then new players will join and make you rich, this is what should be done, instead of squeezing old players for additional windows ☹ Think this way - “why this exploit become possible?”, I meant incursion farming and fast closing - the answer is MULTIBOXING 1 - ISK farm “exploit” - 10 paladin 1 man army farm - using MULTIBOXING 2 - this Hawk man - 10+ Leshak fleet closing Kundalini - using MULTIBOXING 3 - other “abuses” like “eyes” scouting nullsecs for safe dred and carr farming - using MULTIBOXING The list could be infinitely long and everywhere the key abuse here is - using MULTIBOXING MULTIBOXING IS A CANCER THAT IS RUINING THE GAME - because it makes multiplayer game almost a single-player game, because you don’t need to interact with players - you just need to buy your own 10 additional windows 🤮 ---
**Author:** ![James\_Baboli](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/james_baboli/32/408702_2.png) [@James\_Baboli](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/James_Baboli)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2024, 4:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rebalance-incursion-mothership-sites/444634/104 "2024-04-02T04:29:40Z")
I have run them in 2 hours from spawn to dead, in 2014. With marauders, if we could roll 2 fleets in already formed for HQs, and run them that way, Travel time +1 hour total. ---
**Author:** ![Ezabella](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ezabella/32/416231_2.png) [@Ezabella](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ezabella)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2024, 4:52am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rebalance-incursion-mothership-sites/444634/105 "2024-04-02T04:52:42Z")
I multibox, and I interact with multitudes of people daily. Both in incursions and in other aspects of the game. Multiboxing by itself is not the issue in my opinion, you have strayed from the key purpose of this thread, which is to provide suggestions on how to better balance the current state of incursions. No one on the side of incursion runners in this thread has said they are opposed to changing the way things are, we are actively advocating and open to ideas. The biggest complaints and general unhelpful commenting I’ve seen is coming from the other side, that have the opinion that the incursion population should not be allowed to make ISK. > [@Psycho\_Schizophrenic](#): > > 1 - ISK farm “exploit” - 10 paladin 1 man army farm - using MULTIBOXING Use the term exploit carefully, I don’t think you know what it means. ---
**Author:** ![Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ax_l_thorne/32/412835_2.png) [@Ax\_l\_Thorne](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ax_l_Thorne)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2024, 12:30am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rebalance-incursion-mothership-sites/444634/106 "2024-04-03T00:30:22Z")
> [@Psycho\_Schizophrenic](#): > > ok how about the closure of the Chinese EVE Online server, cited enough? Was the server shut down because of a lack of player base or was it shut down because of geo-political reasons? Please provide citation so I can figure this out. ---
**Author:** ![Arthur\_Aihaken](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arthur_aihaken/32/504104_2.png) [@Arthur\_Aihaken](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arthur_Aihaken)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2024, 6:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rebalance-incursion-mothership-sites/444634/107 "2024-04-03T18:13:18Z")
I thought Serenity (Chinese server) was still ticking along…? [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rebalance-incursion-mothership-sites/444634.md?page=4) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rebalance-incursion-mothership-sites/444634.md?page=6)