# Rebel Miners - 3 Orcas versus a Carrier **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [December 6, 2019, 10:36am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rebel-miners-3-orcas-versus-a-carrier/204888 "2019-12-06T10:36:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Solstice\_Projekt](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solstice_projekt/32/503293_2.png) [@Solstice\_Projekt](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solstice_Projekt)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 12:37pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rebel-miners-3-orcas-versus-a-carrier/204888/21 "2019-12-06T12:37:21Z")
We used to call people like him EFT Warriors. You need to stop reaching so high, Alistair. Start with smaller targets, engage them and get experience. THEN go for bigger ones. vOv ---
**Author:** ![Daoden](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daoden/32/271841_2.png) [@Daoden](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daoden)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 1:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rebel-miners-3-orcas-versus-a-carrier/204888/22 "2019-12-06T13:30:29Z")
No, he needs to meet my thanny with his 3 orcas somewhere in low sec. ---
**Author:** ![Empress\_Morrigan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/empress_morrigan/32/192945_2.png) [@Empress\_Morrigan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Empress_Morrigan)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 1:34pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rebel-miners-3-orcas-versus-a-carrier/204888/23 "2019-12-06T13:34:04Z")
As a long term Orca user and now recently a thanatos pilot that likes roaming in small gangs i can answer this question. It really depends, although I’d say the carrier has the advantage. If a carrier is active tanked, then the orcas stand 0 chance of breaking it with their measly 600 dps each or so (with 2 drone dmg amps). Not to mention that large smart bombs would render the carrier essentially immune to the orcas. Even with a active tanked fit(only 1 drone dmg amp), my thanny has about 2k or more dps using just blasters on my t2 fighters. Which will deal FULL damage to such a big and fat target. Sure you might be active tanked or spider reped, but as soon as i put my dual heavy neuts on, which reach to 30km or more, you are toast. Thanny fighters are also pretty tanky too and with my lvl 4 hanger skills i have plenty of room for replacements. Trust me, orcas are amazing and i used to use them to semi afk emerging conduits, but in real unrestricted combat, especially against a capital they are pinatas waiting to be popped. You would be much better flying a rorq, which is not only way tankier but actually has some crazy drone damage bonuses. ---
**Author:** ![Cypr3ss\_Deteis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypr3ss_deteis/32/392947_2.png) [@Cypr3ss\_Deteis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypr3ss_Deteis)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 2:20pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rebel-miners-3-orcas-versus-a-carrier/204888/24 "2019-12-06T14:20:16Z")
> [@Empress\_Morrigan](#): > > It really depends Oh you can’t say this… OP doesn’t like it when you use that word… depends, makes him angry (though I entirely agree with your post) 🙂 > [@Theoretical DPS to break tackle EHP?](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/theoretical-dps-to-break-tackle-ehp/204054/14): > > It’s just tedious dealing with average-IQs who can’t figure out basic ratios and how to compare something against a constant so they aren’t constantly answering “it depends”. And you wouldn’t like him when he’s _angry_ (I may or may not also be watching Hulk atm) 😉 Regards, Cypr3ss. ---
**Author:** ![Andre\_Matar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/andre_matar/32/296078_2.png) [@Andre\_Matar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Andre_Matar)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 2:53pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rebel-miners-3-orcas-versus-a-carrier/204888/25 "2019-12-06T14:53:01Z")
So below is the best fit I was able to come up with: [Orca, Battle Orca] Damage Control II Drone Damage Amplifier II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Pith C-Type EM Ward Field Pith C-Type Thermal Dissipation Field Pithum A-Type Medium Remote Shield Booster Large Remote Shield Booster II Shield Command Burst II, Active Shielding Charge Imperial Navy Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter Imperial Navy Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter Imperial Navy Large Remote Capacitor Transmitter Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit II Large Capacitor Control Circuit II Hammerhead II x5 If you field 4 of these for 4b total, you _might_ be able to take care of a solo capital ship, provided everything goes according to plan - i.e. you have to project the remote shield boosters and 1 cap transmitter from each of the remaining 3 of your orcas to the target orca at all times. You get 2.6k EHP/s shield rep on 345k total EHP and +117 KJ/s cap on it this way. 573 dps from each orca = 2.29k dps. This is all pyfa warrioring, though. In practice, a lot could go sideways. ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Foambreaker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/salt_foambreaker/32/280119_2.png) [@Salt\_Foambreaker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Salt_Foambreaker)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 4:03pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rebel-miners-3-orcas-versus-a-carrier/204888/26 "2019-12-06T16:03:20Z")
> [@Alistair\_Atreides](#): > > An Orca pilot _SEEMS_ to instantly gain a freighter, a weak carrier, a command ship, a fleet logi ship and a mothership, _ALL IN ONE PACKAGE_ . If you completely ignore numbers and facts. ---
**Author:** ![Nepsy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nepsy/32/302840_2.png) [@Nepsy](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nepsy)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 5:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rebel-miners-3-orcas-versus-a-carrier/204888/27 "2019-12-06T17:08:41Z")
1 Orca with 5 T2 Hammerheads at max skills tops out at around 475 dps each. 1 nid with 4 T2 DDA’s, 2 T1 FSUs and T1 firbolgs at max skills gets about 2.9k dps A max tank t2 fit orca with t1 rigs has about 600k ehp with its own command bursts A shield tanked nid with a t1 rigs, 3x capital shield extender + 2 adaptive + 1 anti-em fit has about 3.6m ehp with its own command bursts A carrier has better dps and tank than 3 orcas combined, and can use space superiority fighters to murderize drones if needed Carriers have jump drives, while orca’s don’t They’re not really freighters, topping out at under 100k m^3 space They’re built to be command ships/fleet logi, so that’s a moot point They can carry about 1 battlecruiser + 1 cruiser before filling up, while carriers can fit more than double this number If you want carrier level dps and tank, maybe get a carrier instead? ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 9:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rebel-miners-3-orcas-versus-a-carrier/204888/28 "2019-12-06T21:06:15Z")
> [@Andre\_Matar](#): > > If you field 4 of these for 4b total, you _might_ be able to take care of a solo capital ship, provided everything goes according to plan - i.e. you have to project the remote shield boosters and 1 cap transmitter from each of the remaining 3 of your orcas to the target orca at all times. You get 2.6k EHP/s shield rep on 345k total EHP and +117 KJ/s cap on it this way. 573 dps from each orca = 2.29k dps. > > This is all pyfa warrioring, though. In practice, a lot could go sideways. This is still the best answer I read yet. Follow up question. What do you think of swapping fits during the fight? Lastly. I think a lot of people missed the point of the thread because of the ■■■■■■■ carrier question. The real point of the thread is what about Orcas in a fleet? What can they contribute? Especially if the fleet cant have caps and wont be engaging capitals? Is it the best mothership option in fleets against subcaps fleets if you simply lack the capital abilities? ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 9:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rebel-miners-3-orcas-versus-a-carrier/204888/29 "2019-12-06T21:09:31Z")
> [@Nepsy](#): > > If you want carrier level dps and tank, maybe get a carrier instead For fyck sake man. Are you unable to read? The entire point of the thread is what can players who DONT spend the months to train ONLY carriers and properly fit them…do to add a good boost to your fleet anyway? Looks like 4 orcas is the equivalent of adding one carrier to your fleet with some limitations. Also 4 orcas should have 2x the ship hangar space than a carrier…you dingus. ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 9:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rebel-miners-3-orcas-versus-a-carrier/204888/30 "2019-12-06T21:13:48Z")
The strategy is like that of a Jeep carrier… The Japs had 10 capital carriers with heavy armor. And a Pacific island air fleet to screen them. The US built 53 Jeep carriers who had 1/5th the planes but just overwhelmed the Japanese forces in the Pacific with sheer numbers. I’m tired of the peeps in here who keep ignoring the main point of the thread. Numbers and cheapness vs. Expensive and immaneuverable. Hell a Carrier cant even escape your system without a cyno. It has MAJOR drawbacks being overlooked by the capital pilot crowds. Orcas have drawbacks too. But anyone can fly them anywhere and goonswarm them. ---
**Author:** ![Alistair\_Atreides](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alistair_atreides/32/267403_2.png) [@Alistair\_Atreides](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alistair_Atreides)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 9:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rebel-miners-3-orcas-versus-a-carrier/204888/31 "2019-12-06T21:16:14Z")
Also. Expensiveness isnt just in terms of isk. It’s expensive in SKILLPOINTS. How many people can and do train into capital pilots and mothership pilots? How EASY is it for your ENTIRE corp to spend 16 days to fly a “decent” T1 Orca fit. Get it? Now anyone who isnt well skilled for a good pvp fleet role can just skill into an Orca and fill any gap at the equivalent of a Battleship-mothership hybrid. ---
**Author:** ![Xeux](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xeux/32/428022_2.png) [@Xeux](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xeux)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2019, 1:14am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rebel-miners-3-orcas-versus-a-carrier/204888/32 "2019-12-07T01:14:46Z")
Why is this theoretical Orca Corp in lowsec rather than highsec moon mining? ---
**Author:** ![Nepsy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nepsy/32/302840_2.png) [@Nepsy](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nepsy)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2019, 2:10am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rebel-miners-3-orcas-versus-a-carrier/204888/33 "2019-12-07T02:10:12Z")
Why are you even bothering to ask us questions in GD if you refuse to take criticism? Did you throw this idea out here in the hopes that we’d tell you your idea was good? Are you going to be trying this idea out yourself, or are you trying to convince people to switch to using mining ships so you can kill them easier? Everyone’s telling you that your idea is dumb, so maybe you should try it out yourself and if you manage to get enough kills with it people will start agreeing with you? 4 orcas will cost about 3x the price of a fully fit carrier you carrot I’m sure 3 carriers have more SMB than 4 orcas ---
**Author:** ![Gerard\_Amatin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/gerard_amatin/32/481361_2.png) [@Gerard\_Amatin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Gerard_Amatin)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2019, 12:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rebel-miners-3-orcas-versus-a-carrier/204888/34 "2019-12-07T12:33:42Z")
> [@Alistair\_Atreides](#): > > How many people can and do train into capital pilots and mothership pilots? > > How EASY is it for your ENTIRE corp to spend 16 days to fly a “decent” T1 Orca fit. > > Get it? Now anyone who isnt well skilled for a good pvp fleet role can just skill into an Orca and fill any gap at the equivalent of a Battleship-mothership hybrid. Quite a few people train alts into capitals. I’m not so sure how easy it is to convince your entire corp to train into battle Orcas. Especially when it’s only based on theory. Sure, I like coming up with theory as well for my fits and put something together in Pyfa. Then later when I actually try to use the fit I start noticing the flaws of the theory, small things that I forgot to take into account such as drone survivability or drone travel time. Anyway, if you want my personal opinion: I wouldn’t want to fly an expensive battle Orca when 1. I have barely the skills to sit in it (16 days means I don’t have the support/drone/fleet boosting skills I need to properly use the ship), 2. when the fit is only based on one theoretical scenario (what happens if the enemy shows up with something else in addition to the carrier?) 3. other ships are far more efficient for killing per ISK risked EVE is about using the right tool for the job. Why are you trying to get people to train to sit in expensive Orcas to fight a carrier, instead of getting them to reship in proper combat ships? ---
**Author:** ![Agondray](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/agondray/32/414989_2.png) [@Agondray](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Agondray)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2019, 2:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rebel-miners-3-orcas-versus-a-carrier/204888/35 "2019-12-07T14:32:42Z")
> [@L\_Renegade](#): > > scenario where someone takes a carrier vs 3 orca, i know people that would and who says the carrier hunts them, the orcas could hunt the carrier. > [@L\_Renegade](#): > > people don’t use orcas to pvp with in fleets for a reason they pop stupidly fast. they may not pvp in fleets but i have seen orcas pvp and win vs several thieves. this is eve where a new ship comes out people HAVE to be the first to pvp in it in several areas, case in point people love pvp ventures. ---
**Author:** ![Xuxe\_Xu](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/xuxe_xu/32/464660_2.png) [@Xuxe\_Xu](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Xuxe_Xu)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2019, 4:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rebel-miners-3-orcas-versus-a-carrier/204888/36 "2019-12-07T16:30:23Z")
What a great idea! OP, you really should do this immediately! If you put lots of bling on them, they will be very hard to stop! ---
**Author:** ![Andre\_Matar](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/andre_matar/32/296078_2.png) [@Andre\_Matar](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Andre_Matar)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2019, 5:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rebel-miners-3-orcas-versus-a-carrier/204888/37 "2019-12-07T17:28:14Z")
> [@Alistair\_Atreides](#): > > Follow up question. What do you think of swapping fits during the fight? Not sure it would be a good idea unless you are swapping your mining fit for a combat fit. So mine in your orcas with the mining fit and when bad guys show up, switch to battle fit. ---
**Author:** ![Haulie\_Berry](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/haulie_berry/32/388021_2.png) [@Haulie\_Berry](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Haulie_Berry)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2019, 6:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rebel-miners-3-orcas-versus-a-carrier/204888/38 "2019-12-07T18:52:00Z")
> [@Alistair\_Atreides](#): > > How EASY is it for your ENTIRE corp to spend 16 days to fly a “decent” T1 Orca fit. > > Get it? Now anyone who isnt well skilled for a good pvp fleet role can just skill into an Orca and fill any gap at the equivalent of a Battleship-mothership hybrid. Calling a battle-orca a “battleship-mothership hybrid” is… wew. It’s not. It’s an extra slow battlecruiser with an outsized tank. It’s capable of funny meme kills against idiots, but will generate far more stupid loss mails. It is not an acceptable “gap filler” in any fleet that isn’t specifically meant as a battle-orca memefleet. You cannot use it with normal caps as it lacks a jump drive and you cannot use it with subcaps because nobody is going to wait for your 2 AU/S BS. > [@Alistair\_Atreides](#): > > Numbers and cheapness vs. Expensive and immaneuverable. Every cap ship in the game is more maneuverable than an Orca by virtue of the fact that it has a jump drive. Aside from the jump drive, most of them are just literally faster _and_ more agile than an orca. Cap ships are also cheaper once you get down to looking at it from a perspective that’s more akin to a “total cost of ownership” concept. The initial investment might be lower, but if you were actually to field this garbo concept you’d be replacing orcas all over the place because it is a very incapable trash composition. > [@Alistair\_Atreides](#): > > Hell a Carrier cant even escape your system without a cyno. A carrier can jump a gate the same as anything else. It aligns faster than an orca, so it has a better chance of actually managing to warp to one, while still having the option to just jump away. About the only scenario where an Orca has the thinnest blonde one of an advantage is on a high sec gate. > [@Alistair\_Atreides](#): > > It’s expensive in SKILLPOINTS. > > How many people can and do train into capital pilots and mothership pilots? > > How EASY is it for your ENTIRE corp to spend 16 days to fly a “decent” T1 Orca fit. So long as you live in any flavor of space that isn’t highsec, training into cap ships is an _investment_ and will pay off many times over. While the 16 days to train into your memefleet Orca may be _faster_, unless you’re going to go on to train into a rorqual (which, basically just like any other cap ship), it’s going to amount to wasted SP once you realize how unusable that orca fleet actually is. ---
**Author:** ![Solecist\_Project](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/solecist_project/32/479741_2.png) [@Solecist\_Project](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Solecist_Project)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2019, 7:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rebel-miners-3-orcas-versus-a-carrier/204888/39 "2019-12-07T19:42:52Z")
I’m sorry, but your screen is dirty on this side! [https://thumbs.gfycat.com/GorgeousElaborateEasternnewt-size\_restricted.gif(image larger than 4096KB)](https://thumbs.gfycat.com/GorgeousElaborateEasternnewt-size_restricted.gif) ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/1/41ec4921cbaca7a6f9ea556e7cc20018461eae5e.png) [@system](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2020, 7:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/rebel-miners-3-orcas-versus-a-carrier/204888/40 "2020-03-06T19:42:54Z")
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