# Recent Patch Huge Buff for Suicide Gankers, THANKS CCP! \<3 **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [May 30, 2019, 5:47am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/recent-patch-huge-buff-for-suicide-gankers-thanks-ccp-3/162987 "2019-05-30T05:47:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 11:11am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/recent-patch-huge-buff-for-suicide-gankers-thanks-ccp-3/162987/21 "2019-05-30T11:11:07Z")
> [@Darth\_Schweinebacke](#): > > What does bumpers not being protected in lowsec have to do with concord? Nobody is protected by concord in low sec. Ask that question to @knowledgeminer as he used it in reverse. > [@Darth\_Schweinebacke](#): > > The whole wreck EHP afaik was not aimed at helping bumpers, but was introduced because of ppl shooting super wrecks in 0.0. Of course you have to spin it in a way that it sounds like AG made any impact. Actualy Endie took it over and at the time his corp with the character Warr Akini was the most active freighter ganker. > [@Darth\_Schweinebacke](#): > > All the things you listed were added for the benefit of ALL players. However for example the removel of insurance payouts, was specifically aimed at gankers. So you managed to find one that is specifically aimed at gankers, but that happened after the buff to catalysts which of course was a re-balance there. Do go on. > [@Darth\_Schweinebacke](#): > > Now you might say that there need to be nerfs, to balance out the buffs which I would not even really have any issues with, however… Of course you have an issue. > [@Darth\_Schweinebacke](#): > > As stated before, everything you list was made for the benefit of all people and just gankers. You use these examples to justify nerfs to ganking and you still want more nerfs, for example you want to nerf bumping specifically to nerf ganking. As I said game balance does not happen in a vacuum and there are of course un-intended consequences. I accept that and don’t whine about it. I want to do something against bumping because of bumping enabling someone to stop someone warping for hours, and it gets around any consequences and has no real counter in hisec. There impact on ganking is secondary but important in that it makes the game play more interesting. > [@Darth\_Schweinebacke](#): > > Now if you say that these buffs to all players, justify nerfs that specifically just affect one subgroup, while the others do not recieve nerfs to balance the buffs and find that this is OK. You simply show your bias against suicide ganking. Do you need to bump to sucide gank? No you do not! > [@Darth\_Schweinebacke](#): > > edit to make it easy… let´s go with just a single item on your list: > > - The removal pof the build in rof penalty on destroyers > > If this justifies a nerf to ganking to keep the balance, it justifies a nerf to everyone else as well. So which nerf would you propose that does not specifically target gankers. Or if you want a nerf that targets ganking which additional nerf to non gankers to you propose to keep your balance in tact? As you mention that one I was on the forums pushing for CCP to do something about the tanks on mining barges and exhumers and two and a half years later we got it. Thanks for mentioning that one. At this point good balance achieved… > [@Darth\_Schweinebacke](#): > > After all… any buff, intentional or not… justifies a nerf to keep the balance, right? It can do but not always. But an interesting discussion nonetheless, those people I have blocked could learn something from this. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 11:13am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/recent-patch-huge-buff-for-suicide-gankers-thanks-ccp-3/162987/22 "2019-05-30T11:13:58Z")
> [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](#): > > Thanks for ignoring me question above…it’s almost like you lied are are hoping that nobody noticed… Go and look it up yourself, stop being a lazy entitled ganker type. > [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](#): > > You can’t eliminate Mn/Max and what a ganking Cat is. Vilify it, CCP or your house plant but that wont change even if you wag yuor finger for another 10 years. If it wasn’t the Cat then it would be the next logical choice and then the next… It was a buff to ganking above anything else. > [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](#): > > …but you actually don’t care about that as yet again, you goal here is just to make HS a 100% safe playground for yourself… I have not made that statement anywhere, it is like people saying if you remove bumping then you will end ganking, ridiculous statement by any poor sap that makes it. Ganking is part of the game, hisec is just more safe than other areas, after all ask a bumper with their 100% safety based on your logic! ---
**Author:** ![Daichi\_Yamato](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/daichi_yamato/32/252995_2.png) [@Daichi\_Yamato](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Daichi_Yamato)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 11:22am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/recent-patch-huge-buff-for-suicide-gankers-thanks-ccp-3/162987/23 "2019-05-30T11:22:24Z")
I can’t tell you exactly when it happened, it was years ago. However i can confirm all T1 destroyers used to have a 25% rof **penalty**. [http://www.eve-wiki.net/index.php?title=Catalyst](http://www.eve-wiki.net/index.php?title=Catalyst) Guess this new feature goes on the list lol @Dracvlad ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Schweinebacke](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darth_schweinebacke/32/497371_2.png) [@Darth\_Schweinebacke](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Darth_Schweinebacke)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 11:28am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/recent-patch-huge-buff-for-suicide-gankers-thanks-ccp-3/162987/24 "2019-05-30T11:28:54Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > > After all… any buff, intentional or not… justifies a nerf to keep the balance, right? > > It can do but not always. And exactly this does not make sense. If buffs justify nerfs, this should be applied to all playstyles and not just the ones you dislike. If a buff that was not specifically aimed at ganking, warrants a nerf of the activity that profited from the the buff as a sideeffect, in order to keep the balance intact, this should be applied to all activities. Yet, you… not unlike many other players always scream about balance, when it´s about playstyles you dislike, but totally ignore it in other areas of the game. edit: Just to be clear, I totally am fine with people, discussing certain playstyles for whatever reason they may have. But using the whole “it´s all about balance” argument is kinda silly when you happen to only use it to constantly target 1 specific playstyle. ---
**Author:** ![Avaelica\_Kuershin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/avaelica_kuershin/32/478139_2.png) [@Avaelica\_Kuershin](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Avaelica_Kuershin)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 11:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/recent-patch-huge-buff-for-suicide-gankers-thanks-ccp-3/162987/25 "2019-05-30T11:29:13Z")
I wouldn’t call it a huge buff, but it does save having to stock shuttles in places like Niarja. ---
**Author:** ![Lugburz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugburz/32/486230_2.png) [@Lugburz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugburz)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 11:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/recent-patch-huge-buff-for-suicide-gankers-thanks-ccp-3/162987/26 "2019-05-30T11:31:16Z")
iirc playing with concord like that would be considered an exploit? ---
**Author:** ![NotTheSmartestCookie](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/notthesmartestcookie/32/168266_2.png) [@NotTheSmartestCookie](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/NotTheSmartestCookie)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 11:56am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/recent-patch-huge-buff-for-suicide-gankers-thanks-ccp-3/162987/27 "2019-05-30T11:56:38Z")
haha, no, you have been hanging out with your dumb ag buddies too much. ---
**Author:** ![Lugburz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/lugburz/32/486230_2.png) [@Lugburz](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Lugburz)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 12:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/recent-patch-huge-buff-for-suicide-gankers-thanks-ccp-3/162987/28 "2019-05-30T12:01:48Z")
me? whats ag? ---
**Author:** ![darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darkestkhan_eriker/32/390091_2.png) [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/darkestkhan_Eriker)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 12:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/recent-patch-huge-buff-for-suicide-gankers-thanks-ccp-3/162987/29 "2019-05-30T12:11:29Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > So you managed to find one that is specifically aimed at gankers, but that happened after the buff to catalysts which of course was a re-balance there. Do go on. Changes to damage control unit, giving freighters fitting options, massive buff to ehp of barges, hull resists… and that is just from top of my head. ---
**Author:** ![darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darkestkhan_eriker/32/390091_2.png) [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/darkestkhan_Eriker)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 12:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/recent-patch-huge-buff-for-suicide-gankers-thanks-ccp-3/162987/30 "2019-05-30T12:12:49Z")
> [@Lugburz](#): > > iirc playing with concord like that would be considered an exploit? pulling concord is normal thing, working as intended. ---
**Author:** ![BIade\_Runner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/biade_runner/32/143170_2.png) [@BIade\_Runner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/BIade_Runner)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 12:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/recent-patch-huge-buff-for-suicide-gankers-thanks-ccp-3/162987/31 "2019-05-30T12:13:51Z")
Delaying concord is not an exploit? 🤔 ---
**Author:** ![darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darkestkhan_eriker/32/390091_2.png) [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/darkestkhan_Eriker)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 12:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/recent-patch-huge-buff-for-suicide-gankers-thanks-ccp-3/162987/32 "2019-05-30T12:14:30Z")
What delaying of concord? ---
**Author:** ![BIade\_Runner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/biade_runner/32/143170_2.png) [@BIade\_Runner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/BIade_Runner)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 12:14pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/recent-patch-huge-buff-for-suicide-gankers-thanks-ccp-3/162987/33 "2019-05-30T12:14:59Z")
But making concord to spawn on grid? ---
**Author:** ![darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/darkestkhan_eriker/32/390091_2.png) [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/darkestkhan_Eriker)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 12:16pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/recent-patch-huge-buff-for-suicide-gankers-thanks-ccp-3/162987/34 "2019-05-30T12:16:11Z")
When you pull concord you don’t make it spawn. It moves from one location in the system to another. And no, it is not an exploit. This activity doesn’t delay concord ---
**Author:** ![BIade\_Runner](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/biade_runner/32/143170_2.png) [@BIade\_Runner](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/BIade_Runner)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 12:17pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/recent-patch-huge-buff-for-suicide-gankers-thanks-ccp-3/162987/35 "2019-05-30T12:17:44Z")
So if i suicide 15 chars in noob ships on a freighter just before the real suicide gank land, is not an that an exploit? ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 12:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/recent-patch-huge-buff-for-suicide-gankers-thanks-ccp-3/162987/36 "2019-05-30T12:26:37Z")
> [@Darth\_Schweinebacke](#): > > > It can do but not always. > > And exactly this does not make sense. If buffs justify nerfs, this should be applied to all playstyles and not just the ones you dislike. Did I say anywhere that buffs and nerfs should only be applied to ones I don’t like. And what do you mean by don’t like, you are defining it as an emotive expression. I find bumping a poor mechanic which is imbalanced against casual hisec players which makes them too easy to kill because of it and has no real counter. It is not a case of don’t like it is a poor mechanic which is out of balance. > [@Darth\_Schweinebacke](#): > > If a buff that was not specifically aimed at ganking, warrants a nerf of the activity that profited from the the buff as a sideeffect, in order to keep the balance intact, this should be applied to all activities. Did I say otherwise, the games designed has to keep a close eye on impacts and effects. > [@Darth\_Schweinebacke](#): > > Yet, you… not unlike many other players always scream about balance, when it´s about playstyles you dislike, but totally ignore it in other areas of the game. Freighter gankers have a huge advantage against solo hisec haulers due to this mechanic This means that there are three major multi-boxing freighter gankers who are able to easily pick off this very large group of players at will and there is no real counter. I used to gun mine in Stain, but the HTFU players hated that people did not have to mine to gather minerals so they agitated for years to reduce refine rates. When they got that through people like me had their gameplay removed so that they had more people to gank in mining barges and exhumers. But the impact was that hardly anyone now belt rats, not a very wise decision imo as it then reduced content in NPC nullsec for example. > [@Darth\_Schweinebacke](#): > > edit: Just to be clear, I totally am fine with people, discussing certain playstyles for whatever reason they may have. But using the whole “it´s all about balance” argument is kinda silly when you happen to only use it to constantly target 1 specific playstyle. It is about game balance, at this point a solo hauler in hisec has no counter against bumping. It needs to be changed in some way. What makes it worse is that it is a poor mechanic that allows an aggressor to avoid consequences by the fact they are protected by CONCORD. Which would not exist if they did this in lowsec. And you are falling into the trap of believing that freighter ganking would stop if this poor mechanic was removed, it would not. It would be more challenging and more fun, cargo values would go up and I think better all round. And I am not targeting freighter ganking, I am targeting the bumping mechanic, there is a difference. ---
**Author:** ![Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/runa_yamaguchi/32/197532_2.png) [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Runa_Yamaguchi)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 12:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/recent-patch-huge-buff-for-suicide-gankers-thanks-ccp-3/162987/37 "2019-05-30T12:28:06Z")
> [@Dracvlad](#): > > Go and look it up yourself, stop being a lazy entitled ganker type. You claim to be a master debater yet run when asked to provide proof of YOUR claim and then call me names…LOL. Sad… > [@Dracvlad](#): > > It was a buff to ganking above anything else. Except if anything can be used to gank, you crying means nothing as I pointed out, something else would have just be used… > [@Dracvlad](#): > > made that statement And yet again you make a false claim. I never said you made a statement but rather it is your end goal. And then you start sobbing about bumping again so I’ll stop there while you go get another box of tissues. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 12:28pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/recent-patch-huge-buff-for-suicide-gankers-thanks-ccp-3/162987/38 "2019-05-30T12:28:26Z")
> [@darkestkhan\_Eriker](#): > > Changes to damage control unit, giving freighters fitting options, massive buff to ehp of barges, hull resists… and that is just from top of my head. It increased the cost of ganking ever so slightly, but to give you an idea of the non-impact of this change, the value you can carry before this buff was about 1bn and after the buff it was 1bn. So where is the impact? Where is the buff, I don’t see it. It was minimal! ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 12:30pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/recent-patch-huge-buff-for-suicide-gankers-thanks-ccp-3/162987/39 "2019-05-30T12:30:17Z")
> [@BIade\_Runner](#): > > So if i suicide 15 chars in noob ships on a freighter just before the real suicide gank land, is not an that an exploit? No, not an exploit, just really inefficient. ---
**Author:** ![Dracvlad](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/dracvlad/32/444126_2.png) [@Dracvlad](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Dracvlad)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2019, 12:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/recent-patch-huge-buff-for-suicide-gankers-thanks-ccp-3/162987/40 "2019-05-30T12:32:01Z")
> [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](#): > > You claim to be a master debater yet run when asked to provide proof of YOUR claim and then call me names…LOL. Sad… ROF -25, if you cannot find it that is your issue. In fact Daichi found it for me. > [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](#): > > Except if anything can be used to gank, you crying means nothing as I pointed out, something else would have just be used… So pointing out that removing a -25% ROF penalty made a certain ship very attractive due to low cost and high DPS when the mining and barge tanks were not touched for two and a half years and a lot of prey players gave up the game. I would think CCP was crying about this and ultimately gankers… > [@Runa\_Yamaguchi](#): > > And yet again you make a false claim. I never said you made a statement but rather it is your end goal. And then you start sobbing about bumping again so I’ll stop there while you go get another box of tissues. You keep saying this bullshite about 100% safety, really sad, don’t you have a better argument than throwing that incorrectly at people. What you are really saying is that if it gets a little bit harder and less certain the players doing it will give up. And there was me thinking Eve was a hard game. ROFL! [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/recent-patch-huge-buff-for-suicide-gankers-thanks-ccp-3/162987.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/recent-patch-huge-buff-for-suicide-gankers-thanks-ccp-3/162987.md?page=3)