# Regarding Bounties and Killrights **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Tags:** pvp\ **Created:** [April 15, 2021, 4:40pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/regarding-bounties-and-killrights/305896 "2021-04-15T16:40:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2021, 2:06pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/regarding-bounties-and-killrights/305896/82 "2021-05-17T14:06:51Z")
Why have such a convoluted system when the whole point of automated bounty payouts is flawed to begin with? I don’t want some rando in null-sec getting paid for killing my enemy when that enemy was going to die _anyway_ because they were bubbled in a massive fleet engagement. I want to assign a contract to a specific entity to cause selective damage to my target, and get paid upon completion of the terms. ---
**Author:** ![Alex\_N\_Kamal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alex_n_kamal/32/271007_2.png) [@Alex\_N\_Kamal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alex_N_Kamal)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2021, 2:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/regarding-bounties-and-killrights/305896/83 "2021-05-17T14:13:31Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > The point is they havent, so its not likely they would. > > Now, in your expert opinion as someone who installs captchas, why do you think they havent? Captchas, the ones that currently exist, are annoying and takes away from the end-user enjoyment. I assume CCP doesn’t want to annoy its players. I’ve never seen anyone create a captcha that the end-user doesn’t realize is a captcha and is fun/engaging to solve, but maybe that’s a novel idea worth pursuing. > [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > What has you convinced? Im pretty sure Cypherous, or myself or many others could bring you KMs nd ask you to make a judgement, knowing that the result is not as obvious as it looks. Kill mail isn’t enough, but Kill mail or watching the kill unfold + player locational data + chat logs + player reporting/testimonial + player history of being reported.. it’s enough. I mean you wont get everyone. Some people get away with murder despite forensics existing, but you get most of them. > [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > But that situation already existed. If you make it possible for players to influence it any further, all you are doing is setting it up for the very thing you are seeking to avoid. Okay, say the situation exists. Player A kills Player B with the agreement he will split it with him. The person who placed the bounty looks it over and says this is BS and reports it. It gets reviewed by people playing the audit game and people agree that fraud is afoot. Player B just lost a lot of isk from blowing up his ship and gets nothing in return + whatever other punishment you’d like to throw at him. Seems like a pretty good deterrent to me. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2021, 2:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/regarding-bounties-and-killrights/305896/84 "2021-05-17T14:26:44Z")
But the situation as It was was impossible for the person with the bounty to profit from it. You got a percent value of the ship they were in when destroyed, not the bounty. There was no way to profit from it. > [@Alex\_N\_Kamal](#): > > watching the kill unfold Sorry I mustve missed this part. How do you plan on showing this? I dont think the current system records the event in enough detail to do a replay. > [@Alex\_N\_Kamal](#): > > Captchas, the ones that currently exist, are annoying and takes away from the end-user enjoyment. I assume CCP doesn’t want to annoy its players Right so what makes you think theyd use one for this if they dont for something that (iirc) gave you PLEX, which is more important than raw isk? ---
**Author:** ![Alex\_N\_Kamal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alex_n_kamal/32/271007_2.png) [@Alex\_N\_Kamal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alex_N_Kamal)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2021, 3:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/regarding-bounties-and-killrights/305896/85 "2021-05-17T15:05:00Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > But the situation as It was was impossible for the person with the bounty to profit from it. > > You got a percent value of the ship they were in when destroyed, not the bounty. There was no way to profit from it. Right. Which I find a problem with. It’s lame and makes being a bounty hunter not worth it at all. WINGSPAN TT does an excellent job of explaining why: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rftmAQdq\_bg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rftmAQdq_bg) > [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Sorry I mustve missed this part. How do you plan on showing this? I dont think the current system records the event in enough detail to do a replay. Correct. It doesn’t. But it really doesn’t take much to start recording the extra data you need. To translate that data into a replay would be a bit sophisticated though so I don’t know if CCP would go for it. It would be hella cool though. > [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Right so what makes you think theyd use one for this if they dont for something that (iirc) gave you PLEX, which is more important than raw isk? Because we ask nicely? Haha idk man. I’m surprised that they listen to anyone on these forums at all. It’s also surprising to hear that they didn’t use one in the PLEX example you’re talking about. Really only a couple hours of work to implement that even a novice or jr. developer could do if you’re talking about something web based and using already existing captcha technology. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2021, 4:08pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/regarding-bounties-and-killrights/305896/86 "2021-05-17T16:08:01Z")
> [@Alex\_N\_Kamal](#): > > Right. Which I find a problem with. Well, you cant replace an ungamable system with a gamable one and call it better cos it doesnt offend you. > [@Alex\_N\_Kamal](#): > > But it really doesn’t take much to start recording the extra data you need. Considering everythign that happens in an engagement, I have no idea why you would think this. > [@Alex\_N\_Kamal](#): > > Because we ask nicely? Haha idk man. I’m surprised that they listen to anyone on these forums at all You miss the point of the question. They dont do it already because they dont want to. You need to think why they dont already do your idea. ---
**Author:** ![Alex\_N\_Kamal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alex_n_kamal/32/271007_2.png) [@Alex\_N\_Kamal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alex_N_Kamal)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2021, 4:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/regarding-bounties-and-killrights/305896/87 "2021-05-17T16:23:00Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Well, you cant replace an ungamable system with a gamable one and call it better cos it doesnt offend you. I can’t find the definition to ungamable and gamable. Did you mean untamable and tamable? For some reason I thought they disabled bounties because it was practically pointless and lame. My mistake. They disabled for better server load ~.~ [Player Bounties & Killrights temporarily disabled](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/player-bounties-killrights-temporarily-disabled/273017) > [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Considering everythign that happens in an engagement, I have no idea why you would think this. Just my experience as a developer capturing data. It’s just more rows in a table. Or spreadsheet if that helps you visualize it. > [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > You miss the point of the question. They dont do it already because they dont want to. You need to think why they dont already do your idea. Why do I need to again? No amount of imagination on my part is going to tell you why CCP doesn’t want to. Their decision-making isn’t going to be the same as mine or yours. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2021, 4:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/regarding-bounties-and-killrights/305896/88 "2021-05-17T16:26:07Z")
> [@Alex\_N\_Kamal](#): > > For some reason I thought they disabled bounties due to the fraud. Gamable means you can manipulate the system to your advantage. > [@Alex\_N\_Kamal](#): > > Just my experience as a developer capturing data. It’s just more rows in a table. Or spreadsheet if that helps you visualize it. So how do you do that with the combat data in a battle in EvE that makes any sense? If it were possible would there not be a version of ZKIll that ran simulated recordings of engagements? Just seems like story a vast amount of dat for no practical purpose to me vOv > [@Alex\_N\_Kamal](#): > > No amount of imagination on my part is going to tell you why CCP doesn’t want to. Their decision-making isn’t going to be the same as mine or yours. Exactly, which is why its probably best to accept they will never do this because its not in their interests to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Alex\_N\_Kamal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alex_n_kamal/32/271007_2.png) [@Alex\_N\_Kamal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alex_N_Kamal)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2021, 4:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/regarding-bounties-and-killrights/305896/89 "2021-05-17T16:41:33Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > So how do you do that with the combat data in a battle in EvE that makes any sense? > If it were possible would there not be a version of ZKIll that ran simulated recordings of engagements? Just seems like story a vast amount of dat for no practical purpose to me vOv No there can’t be a version of ZKill that ran a simulation without CCP first recording the data and then also sharing it. It would take some work, but I definitely could see some die hard fans diving into that project if CCP did start recording and sharing that data. As far as how: programming. > [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Exactly, which is why its probably best to accept they will never do this because its not in their interests to do so. Yeah maybe so. Personally, I think it would definitely be in their interest, the scientific community interest, and the end-users interest to do so, but that’s just me. I didn’t come here to promote anti-botting, but if it’s required for me to be a bounty hunter, well “here’s a solution”. It would be great to hear why they feel it’s not in their interest, but I’ll probably forget about it so w.e ---
**Author:** ![Cypherous](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/cypherous/32/499883_2.png) [@Cypherous](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Cypherous)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2021, 6:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/regarding-bounties-and-killrights/305896/90 "2021-05-17T18:52:25Z")
> [@Alex\_N\_Kamal](#): > > I’m suggesting stopping immediate payouts. To pay a person after a review. Right, but you haven’t explained why this needs to happen > [@Alex\_N\_Kamal](#): > > So make it relevant. Have a few rules in place. Again, why? > [@Alex\_N\_Kamal](#): > > Look at every major anti-cheating software on the market. Every single one of them use IP tracking to great effect. What you’re thinking is an issue hasn’t been an issue for a long time. Yes and all of those are generally far too heavy handed, as i’ve said, IP tracking really doesn’t work, and actually what they tend to do is system fingerprinting, its the way windows activation works, they track the physical hardware configuration which is essentially unique due to things like MAC addresses etc Still not really worth adding for a tribunal that doesn’t really need to exist > [@Alex\_N\_Kamal](#): > > So I looked into the tribunal system league of legends added, then removed and it was not removed due to it not actually doing anything of value, but not doing it fast enough. There was also issues whereby cases were just being clicked through because they were offering ingame currency for participation, which is the only way you’ll get enough people to contribute, and yes it not being able to go through cases fast enough was the reason it didn’t do anything of value > [@Alex\_N\_Kamal](#): > > The comments also indicate it was effective Trust me, didn’t actually do anything to the toxicity levels of matches, even the automated punishment system doesn’t lol > [@Alex\_N\_Kamal](#): > > I know but I’m convinced you can get enough information to make a judgement call. If you don’t have the whole context you’re not qualified to make a judgement call At the end of the day, this isn’t a system that even needs to exist and even if it _did_ exist it really wouldn’t have the effect you seem to want it to have and will just be spammed by people clicking “yes” to payouts ---
**Author:** ![Alex\_N\_Kamal](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/alex_n_kamal/32/271007_2.png) [@Alex\_N\_Kamal](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Alex_N_Kamal)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2021, 2:29am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/regarding-bounties-and-killrights/305896/91 "2021-05-18T02:29:30Z")
> [@Cypherous](#): > > Right, but you haven’t explained why this needs to happen Okay so originally I thought CCP took down bounties because it was seen as pointless and no one actually liked it. But really they just took it down to save on server load… Why I thought we needed it was so that we could make bounties something really cool and fun in this game. Make a viable career out of hunting pirates, getting vengeance, and serving justice. Right now that career isn’t viable because you don’t make enough to warrant the time or risk. Either way, I’m dropping the idea now that I’ve learned CCP only took it down to save on server load. Kinda kills any hope I had for the idea. Sorry for the waste of time, it was my mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2021, 3:19am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/regarding-bounties-and-killrights/305896/92 "2021-05-18T03:19:37Z")
> [@Alex\_N\_Kamal](#): > > Right now that career isn’t viable because you don’t make enough to warrant the time or risk. This is the dumbest complaint about the old bounty system. You could say the exact same thing about every other EVE career - it’s not worth the time. It’s only worth it if you ENJOY it, and the trivial payout is just a meaningless incentive. I’m a bounty hunter, and getting a couple million isk to kill a retriever is plenty of incentive to keep me going. If you don’t enjoy hunting bounties, then go do something else, but stop pretending like you deserve a big payday. ---
**Author:** ![Githany\_Red](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/githany_red/32/378551_2.png) [@Githany\_Red](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Githany_Red)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2021, 6:31am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/regarding-bounties-and-killrights/305896/93 "2021-05-18T06:31:43Z")
> [@Alex\_N\_Kamal](#): > > Which I find a problem with. It’s lame and makes being a bounty hunter not worth it at all. Your right there, but even the system we had before would pay us a nice monthly income , especially for our new players. Just like kill rights work if given to us for free and not made public and the next person to whine about being ganked then trys to sell me a kr for 100 mill I swear I’ll gank them myself. > [@Aiko\_Danuja](#): > > It’s only worth it if you ENJOY it, and the trivial payout is just a meaningless incentive. I’m a bounty hunter, and getting a couple million isk to kill a retriever is plenty of incentive to keep me going For the 1st time ever I agree with what Aiko say’s, eve should be about game play and fun not working out the ish per hour on a spreadsheet., Even if she’s not serious "bounty hunter " ha ---
**Author:** ![Aiko\_Danuja](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/aiko_danuja/32/481237_2.png) [@Aiko\_Danuja](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Aiko_Danuja)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2021, 7:20am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/regarding-bounties-and-killrights/305896/94 "2021-05-18T07:20:04Z")
Githany, like me, is also a bounty hunter. I hunt the bounty on miners, she pretends to hunt the bounty on me. @CCP_Dopamine please give us back our bounty gameplay. ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2021, 7:57am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/regarding-bounties-and-killrights/305896/95 "2021-05-18T07:57:01Z")
> [@Githany\_Red](#): > > For the 1st time ever I agree with what Aiko say’s Thats the second time youve said that this week 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Destiny\_Corrupted](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/destiny_corrupted/32/411527_2.png) [@Destiny\_Corrupted](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Destiny_Corrupted)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2021, 8:06am UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/regarding-bounties-and-killrights/305896/96 "2021-05-18T08:06:39Z")
> [@Githany\_Red](#): > > I swear I’ll gank them myself. ![](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/4X/6/f/d/6fd47d016cb6981bb356aea9a7a0f17f0f94e552.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Githany\_Red](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/githany_red/32/378551_2.png) [@Githany\_Red](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Githany_Red)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2021, 4:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/regarding-bounties-and-killrights/305896/97 "2021-05-18T16:42:01Z")
> [@Ramona\_McCandless](#): > > Thats the second time youve said that this week 😉 The 1st time was an accident ---
**Author:** ![Ramona\_McCandless](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/ramona_mccandless/32/468438_2.png) [@Ramona\_McCandless](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Ramona_McCandless)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2021, 4:43pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/regarding-bounties-and-killrights/305896/98 "2021-05-18T16:43:38Z")
Thats how all ganking starts 😉 ---
**Author:** ![system](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/1/41ec4921cbaca7a6f9ea556e7cc20018461eae5e.png) [@system](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2021, 4:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/regarding-bounties-and-killrights/305896/99 "2021-08-16T16:44:01Z")
This topic was automatically closed 90 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/regarding-bounties-and-killrights/305896.md?page=4)