# Remember the "dedicated balance team" ccp promised last summer? CSM member reveals ccp \*\*\*canned it **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [January 26, 2018, 4:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522 "2018-01-26T16:11:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Baba\_Ji](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/baba_ji/32/36487_2.png) [@Baba\_Ji](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Baba_Ji)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 7:48pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/326 "2018-01-29T19:48:42Z")
> [@Baba\_Ji](#): > > In other news a Keepstar was bought online 48 hours ago for $1,799.00 > > CCP mail me ingame for site info > [@Arrendis](#): > > Put in a bleedin’ ticket. If you know RMT’s going on and you have proof, report it, don’t just posture. You’re joking right? If they care they know what to do. Its real and can easily be proven. Tickets for botting didn’t get answered until certain individuals got highly pissed. Time passed was 12 weeks to 6 months. One link to a plethora of RMT. loaded with documentation,dates,amounts,even the buyers info. Sending an ingame mail is easy and I answer mine. If the source that prompted this thread isn’t posturing then I don’t know what posturing is. ---
**Author:** ![Mei\_Seung-Li](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mei_seung-li/32/171096_2.png) [@Mei\_Seung-Li](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mei_Seung-Li)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 8:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/327 "2018-01-29T20:01:09Z")
> [@Yiole\_Gionglao](#): > > This is to a “HS vs NS” thread. It’s about “CCP is wrong to backburn A to favor B because they’re losing more with A than they can earn with B”. > > CCP made a terrible mistake the moment when they comitted to a development plan around multiplayer, PvP and non-highsec (MPN) content whereas their customer base was largely solo, PvE and highsec (SEH). Yeah all I see in this thread is “I don’t care what the data is, gameplay in our part of space matters the most!”. But I’m sure the large majority of the CSM were mainly null sec guys, the guys that were supposed to vent the average players concerns? It’s basically putting together a CSM together of WoW world first raiders, Arena PVPers, STV gankers and then wondering why the rest of the playerbase is leaving. 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 8:12pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/328 "2018-01-29T20:12:07Z")
We cant really blame CSM for more than slightly apologetic message coming sometimes from particular members, not Jin’taan because he is more like a rebel. CCP always have the last word in everything, CSM dont have any real power over CCP, they fulfill just an advisory role. CCP chooses what to show to CSM when they want to show new stuff, but dont have to show anything. CCP can ignore all the feedback just like they do with chat bubbles that cant be turned off. ---
**Author:** ![Jin\_taan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jin_taan/32/381307_2.png) [@Jin\_taan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jin_taan)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 8:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/329 "2018-01-29T20:23:00Z")
> [@Mei\_Seung-Li](#): > > But I’m sure the large majority of the CSM were mainly null sec guys, the guys that were supposed to vent the average players concerns? It’s basically putting together a CSM together of WoW world first raiders, Arena PVPers, STV gankers and then wondering why the rest of the playerbase is leaving. 🙄 🤔 ---
**Author:** ![Fluffy\_Moe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fluffy_moe/32/11132_2.png) [@Fluffy\_Moe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fluffy_Moe)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 8:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/330 "2018-01-29T20:23:22Z")
Dang, and here I was really hoping this balance pass over assault frigs and HACs and battleships would actually come to fruition as I play mostly sub-caps these days. Way to disappoint CCP. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 8:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/331 "2018-01-29T20:23:28Z")
More information about how CCP works and the state of company comes from people who worked there, then you can build an image, CSM knows that image too. I have seen Jin’taan’s reaction when he heard that it was personal decision of Hilmar to price monocles at $70. Yes, CSM is sometimes usefull to get former CCP devs on stream to question them, results in revealing secrets and intricacies of CCP management level. 😂 ---
**Author:** ![Mayhaw\_Morgan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mayhaw_morgan/32/412682_2.png) [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mayhaw_Morgan)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 8:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/332 "2018-01-29T20:23:40Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > You’re a solo miner. You login to go to the belts. OH LOOK, a 30-character fleet of hulks and orcas beat you to it. All gone. All of the belts. For 8 jumps in every direction. Doesn’t happen. > [@Arrendis](#): > > everything comes down to money. To some people. But people don’t game for money, letalone for space money . . . well, except people like you, apparently. > [@Arrendis](#): > > Every activity in EVE is ultimately PvP Sure, but the second “P” is the same as the first, i.e. when you are pitting yourself against someone else, first and foremost, you are pushing against yourself. If part of you wants to get more and part of you wants to exert less effort, you have to reconcile those two aspects of yourself. It is a choice to “PVP”. That choice takes place within yourself. What is really interesting is that you declare that everything is PVP, but then exalt cooperation. Cooperation is not competition, i.e. it is not PVP. 5 guys building a house are not PVPing eachother and if you’ve ever done any hard manual labor like construction, you probably know that you have to MAKE yourself do it; you have to exert effort in spite of yourself, in spite of your fatigue or pain or, in the case of hazardous labor, in spite of your fear, etc. That’s not PVP except in the sense that I described above, where you are PVPing yourself. > [@Arrendis](#): > > Did you think I just pulled [36,000] out of no-where? There are not 36,000 active Goons, letalone 36,000 active Goons in Delve, letalone 1,000,000 Goons or 7.some-odd billion as you claim would be able to best hold onto Delve. As usual, you are missing the point, probably intentionally. “More is better.” ← This is your claim; is it not? So why not more Goons? > [@Arrendis](#): > > This is why you see large construction companies that can tackle multiple projects at the same time. So, why are there small construction companies? Why should large construction companies use subcontractors? In fact, why are there these things called “individuals” at all? > [@Arrendis](#): > > And the end result of competition without outside controls (ie: anti-trust laws, which are artificial constraints on how successful a business can be), is… monopoly . . . The ‘more, better competition’ phase is transitional, unless there’s outside influences working to keep breaking things up and force it to exist. There are always outside influences working to keep breaking things up. The world is in always in flux. Monopoly occurs when things don’t change, but when do you think that happens? When is the competition not trying to catch up, innovate, adapt? Monopoly is the temporary state, and the monopolist will attempt to prolong this state by fighting against change, by erecting barriers to entry, by disrupting competitive adaptation . . . just like you are doing here in this thread. > [@Arrendis](#): > > Your one player, your solo player, is more likely to be the guy who doesn’t have a lot of time to spend on EVE. He has proportionately the same amount of time as a “farming party”, because their reward must be greater to compensate for the greater number of participants it is split between. 10 people have to be at least 10 times more productive than 1 person. There is also overhead in creating and maintaining the group in the first place. Why do you think there ARE “individuals”? If 10 people were always better than 1 person, wouldn’t we be born 10 at a time? ---
**Author:** ![Jin\_taan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/jin_taan/32/381307_2.png) [@Jin\_taan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Jin_taan)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 8:26pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/333 "2018-01-29T20:26:07Z")
> [@Fluffy\_Moe](#): > > assault frigs and HACs Tbf that happened, it’s not like ccp isn’t working on balance at all, it’s simply the time and priority that I’m complaining about here. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 8:27pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/334 "2018-01-29T20:27:26Z")
> [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](#): > > Doesn’t happen. Well, these NPC miners ruin everything actually, belts emptied when you sleep and you cant even blame anybody but CCP bots. 😔 ---
**Author:** ![Mei\_Seung-Li](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mei_seung-li/32/171096_2.png) [@Mei\_Seung-Li](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mei_Seung-Li)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 8:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/335 "2018-01-29T20:32:06Z")
> [@Jin\_taan](#): > > 🤔 You may think I’m specifically speaking of you. The CSM has been going for years hasn’t it? How many “care bears” have historically made up the CSM? ---
**Author:** ![Zircon\_Dasher](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zircon_dasher/32/36736_2.png) [@Zircon\_Dasher](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zircon_Dasher)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 8:33pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/336 "2018-01-29T20:33:39Z")
Are the CSM min going to give a fuller description of the problem? Sure there is stuff that needs work (and a couple things are pressing), but as far as I can tell EVE is probably in the overall best balance its ever been. Its not completely obvious that they need the full team working on balance and only balance regardless of other priorities. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 8:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/337 "2018-01-29T20:41:17Z")
> [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](#): > > Doesn’t happen. It very much does happen. Ice belts are another great example of the many doing it much better than the few, even though the mechanics are the same for both. Moon mining (traditional and new) has always benefitted larger groups, even though it’s possible for small groups to do as well. There are multiple examples of things being better at large scale than small in the game. ---
**Author:** ![Mayhaw\_Morgan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mayhaw_morgan/32/412682_2.png) [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mayhaw_Morgan)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 8:41pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/338 "2018-01-29T20:41:48Z")
Goons . . . errr . . . CODE. were having trouble suppressing high sec mineral production by killing all the miners in high sec so CCP had to help them out. WORKING AS INTENDED! ---
**Author:** ![Fluffy\_Moe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fluffy_moe/32/11132_2.png) [@Fluffy\_Moe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fluffy_Moe)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 8:42pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/339 "2018-01-29T20:42:50Z")
My personal overall peeve about balance is the way sub-caps vs caps work. For example, you can take out a battleship with 3-5 frigs, or 1-3 cruisers, all depending on fits etc., but you can’t take out a dred with 2-3 battleships or a carrier with 5 battleships unless the cap pilot is afk or has serious connection problems or is completely and utterly stupid or something else like that is going on. So the overall balance curve is just wrong. Its powercreeped to hell, it should have been preserved. Double this due to the fact that increase in cap destruction rate is far, far lower then the increase in cap proliferation. ---
**Author:** ![Yiole\_Gionglao](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yiole_gionglao/32/516090_2.png) [@Yiole\_Gionglao](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Yiole_Gionglao)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 8:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/340 "2018-01-29T20:45:20Z")
CCP’s finances still are public, just they aren’t forced to publish them. But it is possible to obtain a copy from the Icelandic authorities. For the rest of your message, I don’t complain that groups profit more from content. I complain that there is not enough content for people who don’t group. There are no soloable structures, and CCP has devoted endless efforts to structures for years. Efforts that would have been more effective if they had been spent in the SEH majority because, as yourself point, groups can solo content, but solos can’t group content. ---
**Author:** ![Scipio\_Artelius](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/scipio_artelius/32/408264_2.png) [@Scipio\_Artelius](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Scipio_Artelius)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 8:51pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/341 "2018-01-29T20:51:56Z")
> [@Yiole\_Gionglao](#): > > CCP’s finances still are public Yeah, so why the claim that there’s no money? The latest figures we have from the public record show record high revenue, or did you just mean, there’s no money for EVE because of how CCP choose to use their money? ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 8:55pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/342 "2018-01-29T20:55:41Z")
Soon the next report will be available and we will all see how much EVE alone makes them recently. ---
**Author:** ![Shailagh\_R](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/shailagh_r/32/12296_2.png) [@Shailagh\_R](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Shailagh_R)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 8:58pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/343 "2018-01-29T20:58:14Z")
Thats because of their accountants playing games with the balance sheets and columns deducting R&D, selloffs, layoffs, site closures, IP sales, loans, VR investments etc etc. They fluffed up their balances and income, legally, to appear healthy and ripe for a sale. They even were publicly communicating with venture capitalists that year and opening talking about a sale dude. FAKE NEWS ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 9:00pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/344 "2018-01-29T21:00:47Z")
> [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](#): > > If 10 people were always better than 1 person, wouldn’t we be born 10 at a time? Well, except for the immense strain that puts on the human body. Why do you think other animals _are_ born in litters, clutches, etc? Primates, apes especially, put a lot of investment into the brain, and so go for smaller numbers of offspring at a time, but again: more is better, which is why you tend to see larger numbers of children in poorer economic situations. Bigger families allow for more stability over the longer term. > [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](#): > > When is the competition not trying to catch up, innovate, adapt? Monopoly is the temporary state, and the monopolist will attempt to prolong this state by fighting against change, by erecting barriers to entry, by disrupting competitive adaptation . . . just like you are doing here in this thread. Except the monopolist already has all the advantage he needs. Someone else enters the market, he _buys_ them, or puts them out of business. It’s regulatory pressure that prevents this. The analogy for EVE wouldn’t be this thread, it’d be ‘someone wants to move into X space’. And if someone, for example, wants to move into Delve… they’ll get crushed. If someone wants to move into Deklein, or Pure Blind, or Tribute, they’ll get crushed. The groups that own that space have effective monopolies, and the natural state of things is that bodies at rest tend to stay at rest. You can say, for example, that the world is always in flux, but the flux isn’t exactly the driving force. Conservation of energy is, and it’s only when conditions are right that any meaningful change happens. > [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](#): > > So, why are there small construction companies? Why should large construction companies use subcontractors? In fact, why are there these things called “individuals” at all? A)Because nobody has _unlimited_ resources, and the bigger orgs can focus on the things the little orgs _can’t_ do. This is less true in EVE, where we can spin up an unlimited number of alpha accounts. B)Because external pressures, like regulatory and accounting limits, impose artificial influence that makes it more efficient. C)You’ll have to take that one up with natural selection and its inability to produce telepathic humans. Alternately, wait a few more decades and see if someone’s dumb enough to develop a way to achieve a collective consciousness through technology. If they do, it will quickly be the dominant form of humanity. > [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](#): > > “More is better.” \<- This is your claim; is it not? So why not more Goons? We’re working on it! ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 9:01pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/345 "2018-01-29T21:01:26Z")
If anybody is curious how it looked to this day: > **[CCP Financials (as published)](http://marketsforisk.blogspot.co.uk/p/ccp-financials-my-attempt.html)** > > A blog of my experiences and observations of making ISK in Eve Online. The aim is to make sufficient ISK to purchase a Plex per account per month. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522.md?page=16) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522.md?page=18)