# Remember the "dedicated balance team" ccp promised last summer? CSM member reveals ccp \*\*\*canned it **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [January 26, 2018, 4:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522 "2018-01-26T16:11:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![Rivr\_Luzade](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rivr_luzade/32/311061_2.png) [@Rivr\_Luzade](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rivr_Luzade)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 3:19pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/387 "2018-01-30T15:19:05Z")
> [@Zircon\_Dasher](#): > > Don’t be all butthurt that someone else doesn’t follow you down that hole though I’m most definitely not irritated if you don’t follow me down into this rabbit hole, I have enough competent company down here as it is. And I don’t know about you, but 6 months of work (if I am generous) and the only thing that comes forth is 50% of the indicated changes, and of these 50% only 3 ships receive actual stats changes and the rest are just blanket “improvements”, that’s not really a lot of “balancing to talk about”. Not to mention that some changes are questionable, like the ROF change on the Retribution, which already has cap issues and will continue to have even with the increased capacitor, or the Jaguar, which now deals even less damage than before. I don’t want to complain about changes, nor do I complain about the changes. Many people have been waiting for changes to AFHAC for many years. What I find irritating is the amount of changes they “accomplished” in this ridiculously long time after saying there would be more. It’s just disappointing. ---
**Author:** ![Zircon\_Dasher](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/zircon_dasher/32/36736_2.png) [@Zircon\_Dasher](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Zircon_Dasher)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 3:44pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/388 "2018-01-30T15:44:06Z")
I agree that if there is one thing EVE has, its players who are competent ragers! 😆 ---
**Author:** ![March\_rabbit](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/march_rabbit/32/453160_2.png) [@March\_rabbit](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/March_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 3:45pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/389 "2018-01-30T15:45:18Z")
> [@Fluffy\_Moe](#): > > For example, you can take out a battleship with 3-5 frigs, or 1-3 cruisers, all depending on fits etc., but you can’t take out a dred with 2-3 battleships or a carrier with 5 battleships unless the cap pilot is afk or has serious connection problems or is completely and utterly stupid or something else like that is going on. Actually we had an instance when we killed carrier with 2 t3s and 1 BC. It comes down to fittings and player skills actually. ---
**Author:** ![Persephanie\_Mae](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/persephanie_mae/32/13365_2.png) [@Persephanie\_Mae](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Persephanie_Mae)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 3:57pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/390 "2018-01-30T15:57:53Z")
> [@March\_rabbit](#): > > It comes down to fittings and player skills actually. Well yeah that, plus whoever bring the SUPER EZ-MODE UNBALANCED ECM in first. That years-long broke promise of the pipe-dream ECM re-balance/fix ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 4:02pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/391 "2018-01-30T16:02:29Z")
> [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](#): > > Just because 10 people can make something happen faster than 1 person doesn’t mean they are more efficient. ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/4/c/4c3f47d45ea2be712c4265e09ac22f6dd5786b4a.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 4:52pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/392 "2018-01-30T16:52:54Z")
Sure, if that’s all they’ve been doing for the last 8 months. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 4:59pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/393 "2018-01-30T16:59:00Z")
> [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](#): > > I’d further challenge whether a society truly is a “group” in the sense that I’m using the word “group” in. I’d say you’re using it in an amazingly arbitrary way… except there’s really nothing amazing about shifting the definitions around in order to twist facts to support your flawed case. And no, it’s not magical thinking. _Do_ 10 people need 10 wells? Do they need 10 toilets? Does each person in a household need their own toilet? Or are you ignoring this question to construct your false narrative? ---
**Author:** ![Rivr\_Luzade](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/rivr_luzade/32/311061_2.png) [@Rivr\_Luzade](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Rivr_Luzade)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 5:05pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/394 "2018-01-30T17:05:31Z")
What else than ship/module/structure balancing would a dedicated team do? 🤔 Ships are the most important feature of EVE. If management gave the dedicated balancing team other work to do, that would be outrageously daft. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 5:18pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/395 "2018-01-30T17:18:57Z")
> [@Rivr\_Luzade](#): > > What else than ship/module/structure balancing would a dedicated team do? Apparently, their full-time jobs. The entire thrust of both the thread and the article is that the ‘dedicated’ team _isn’t_ a dedicated balance team. It’s just people from other teams who’ve been told ‘you’re on the balance team _too_!’ 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 6:13pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/396 "2018-01-30T18:13:14Z")
> [@Yiole\_Gionglao](#): > > This is to a “HS vs NS” thread. It’s about “CCP is wrong to backburn A to favor B because they’re losing more with A than they can earn with B”. Yeah maybe they were. But you just don’t have the numbers that matter to back up your position. Traditional players are largely disengaged from the social aspect of the game. Entrepreneurs are engaged, but they amount to just 25% of the game population. Aggressors and Professionals are likely to agree on alot and they make up 38% of the game and they do things like go to Fanfest and other things that get the Devs attention. If you make it a HS vs. NS chances are you’ll lose yet again. > [@Yiole\_Gionglao](#): > > CCP made a terrible mistake the moment when they comitted to a development plan around multiplayer, PvP and non-highsec (MPN) content whereas their customer base was largely solo, PvE and highsec (SEH). Because players are not becoming MPN fast enough to recoup from the loss of SEH players. Actually, no. Your own data says no to this. Professionals, Entrepreneurs, Aggressor players comprise roughly 63% of the player base or so. Even the Social players are likely more interested in the multi-player aspect in that they are well connected to other players. That leaves you with Traditional players who comprise roughly 25% of the players. To be clear, I am not saying the group Entrepreneurs are NS, but they are social, they do play multiplayer. Look at their interactions/social graphics. They play a multiplayer game. Seriously your tactics here really suck. You started with some good points and a solid position and now you’ve pretty much alienated _just about everyone that actually agrees with you_. In short you are going to lose this issue just like it has been lost in the past. And it is too bad since, you are likely right that it could be good for the game. Next alt you create, name it Shoot My Foot. ---
**Author:** ![Mayhaw\_Morgan](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/mayhaw_morgan/32/412682_2.png) [@Mayhaw\_Morgan](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Mayhaw_Morgan)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 6:15pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/397 "2018-01-30T18:15:19Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > it’s not magical thinking. Do 10 people need 10 wells? Do they need 10 toilets? Does each person in a household need their own toilet? Or are you ignoring this question to construct your false narrative? Does it take 10 people to dig a hole in the ground? Do you realize that that hole, once dug, will remain dug? It’s not like the solo guy has to do it every day. And in your 10 people scenario, you have failed to acknowledge the greater complexity that is at stake. With 10 people all sharing, say, 5 toilets, you have introduced the possibility of communicable diseases. (Yay! Cholera!) Now you need a doctor. Shall we continue this game? I can’t wait until we get to the part where we need nuclear physicists and video game designers. It’s magical thinking to assume away all the potential downsides of “more”. If a ship goes faster, there is a tradeoff. If a ship has more EHP, there is a tradeoff. If a ship does more DPS, there is a tradeoff. If our fleet/corp/alliance/coalition has more people in it . . . If you want space magic, that’s fine. But why space magic to make larger groups more effective? Why not space magic to make smaller groups more effective? Why not space magic to make non-combat ships more effective? Why not space magic to make high sec players more effective? Why not space magic to make self-defense more effective? See what I’m saying? ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 6:32pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/398 "2018-01-30T18:32:31Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Mine, because if human history shows us anything, it’s that innovation and increased complexity may occasionally take a single step backwards, it doesn’t actually ever collapse completely. It just doesn’t happen. The end of the Roman Empire didn’t see society collapse across Europe, it saw centralized control decay… and reassert itself, on a more localized scale, before building up even farther, with even more people. Indeed. At the turn of the 19th century about 90% of the population lived on $2-3/day (in today’s dollars) now we are at the lowest level (in percentage terms) something like 13%. ![worldxpoverty](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/original/3X/6/0/604836779ee3e02948119434830f7c3567a598e2.PNG) Yay for speciliazation, trade, and innovation. Down with the idea of being totally self-sufficient. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendis](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/arrendis/32/432594_2.png) [@Arrendis](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Arrendis)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 7:22pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/399 "2018-01-30T19:22:17Z")
Do you realize that if you’re talking about a hole in the ground being used by multiple people, you’re not talking about 10 people doing it on their own? That they’re getting help from _GASP_ others in the group? Because, you know, if you’re just using the same damned hole in the ground again and again, YAY! CHOLERA! Only, you know, you don’t have anyone else to get you food and fluids while your sick, or develop medicines and treatments, because you’re _alone_. Oh, look, you need a doctor _BUT THERE ISN’T ONE BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE GETTING ASSISTANCE FROM BEING A PART OF A GROUP_. Yes, complexity gives rise to its own problems. And a well-organized group is able to tackle those problems. So please, show me the problem that has existed, in human history, that has been solved by single individuals, but could not be solved by a group. Not ‘no group was needed to solve it’, mind you, **could not be solved by a group**. ---
**Author:** ![Fluffy\_Moe](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/fluffy_moe/32/11132_2.png) [@Fluffy\_Moe](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Fluffy_Moe)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 8:39pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/400 "2018-01-30T20:39:21Z")
> [@March\_rabbit](#): > > Actually we had an instance when we killed carrier with 2 t3s and 1 BC. > > It comes down to fittings and player skills actually. There are exceptions. I was focusing on averages. and like I said, you **CAN** do it if the cap pilot is utterly stupid, or AFK, or has connection problems or something alike is going on. In this case, that pilot was stupid. Also due to cap proliferation, many times cap pilots don’t have level 5 skills. Naturally you can do that. Hell, you can take out a BS in a single T1 frig under same case scenario, it just takes a long time. Now repeat that vs properly fitted one, with proper skills trained that actually knows what they’re doing and lets see how it goes for you. ---
**Author:** ![Nana\_Skalski](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/nana_skalski/32/489985_2.png) [@Nana\_Skalski](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Nana_Skalski)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 8:54pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/401 "2018-01-30T20:54:25Z")
> [@Teckos\_Pech](#): > > Down with the idea of being totally self-sufficient But isnt the whole planet economy self sufficient? Or we just consume and produce like crazy monkeys, untill the forest is burned and river overfilled with 💩 This is the first and last planet that we know, that doesnt want to kill us on every step, so we should somehow return the favor. ---
**Author:** ![Yiole\_Gionglao](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/yiole_gionglao/32/516090_2.png) [@Yiole\_Gionglao](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Yiole_Gionglao)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 9:23pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/402 "2018-01-30T21:23:39Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Do you realize that if you’re talking about a hole in the ground being used by multiple people, you’re not talking about 10 people doing it on their own? That they’re getting help from _GASP_ others in the group? Because, you know, if you’re just using the same damned hole in the ground again and again, YAY! CHOLERA! > > Only, you know, you don’t have anyone else to get you food and fluids while your sick, or develop medicines and treatments, because you’re _alone_. Oh, look, you need a doctor _BUT THERE ISN’T ONE BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE GETTING ASSISTANCE FROM BEING A PART OF A GROUP_. > > Yes, complexity gives rise to its own problems. And a well-organized group is able to tackle those problems. > > So please, show me the problem that has existed, in human history, that has been solved by single individuals, but could not be solved by a group. Not ‘no group was needed to solve it’, mind you, **could not be solved by a group**. I don’t know where this is coming from or what does it have to do with the thread topic, but I will just point the meta-answer: all individuals older than 72 hours after birth are part of a group. Otherwise, they’d be dead without somebody else to take care of them after birth and during growth and development. ---
**Author:** ![Caleb\_Seremshur](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/caleb_seremshur/32/399348_2.png) [@Caleb\_Seremshur](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Caleb_Seremshur)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 9:56pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/403 "2018-01-30T21:56:40Z")
So nerf application on missile hulls that fit rapid lights??? ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 10:09pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/404 "2018-01-30T22:09:43Z")
Sure the planet wide economy is self-sufficient. But individuals generally are not. Thanks to specialization along with trade and innovation we don’t have to be. In fact, being totally self sufficient as an individual will ensure an unpleasant life. ---
**Author:** ![Teckos\_Pech](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/teckos_pech/32/375283_2.png) [@Teckos\_Pech](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Teckos_Pech)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 10:11pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/405 "2018-01-30T22:11:43Z")
> [@Arrendis](#): > > Only, you know, you don’t have anyone else to get you food and fluids while your sick, or develop medicines and treatments, because you’re alone. Oh, look, you need a doctor BUT THERE ISN’T ONE BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE GETTING ASSISTANCE FROM BEING A PART OF A GROUP. Not only that being a doctor is highly specialized. Can’t have that either. ---
**Author:** ![Makshima\_Shogo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/eveonline/user_avatar/forums.eveonline.com/makshima_shogo/32/247769_2.png) [@Makshima\_Shogo](https://forums.eveonline.com/u/Makshima_Shogo)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 10:21pm UTC](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522/406 "2018-01-30T22:21:51Z")
Na that will be silly rather nerf the launcher it’s self to add explosion radius to light missles, so that light missiles themselves are not effected. [Previous page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522.md?page=19) [Next page](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/remember-the-dedicated-balance-team-ccp-promised-last-summer-csm-member-reveals-ccp-canned-it/53522.md?page=21)